Decision Time

[mtnmizer]

Time to pull the trigger and get a gasification stove
headed my way. So far I've called and talked to most
of the major players about their products and how
they will work for my situation. The short list is Tarm,
Eko, and Econoburn. Tarm has a waiting list, so
that cuts it to two. I'm leaning heavily towards the
Eko from cozyheat. Anything I'm missing?-comments
appreciated..


It's nice to have to make a
choice where the options are all good.. Tnks

MM

 

[Ron Lloyd]

MM,

Given those options you can’t miss even if you do flinch while pulling the trigger. Welcome to the Boiler Room.

Ron

 

[mtnmizer]

After agonizing, I went with the Econoburn EBW 150. Major
dent in the ol wallet, but made in the good ol USA, "ya pays your
money and takes your chances".

Met with my builder foreman this afternoon and was advised
that putting 8 tons of water tank on 4" of concrete would be regretable
not to mention painfully expensive if/when the slab with the radiant heat
tubes cracked, so I now am looking at moving the storage outside
in the form of a cistern..Anyone using a concrete water cistern for storage?

Any insight on how/what to do about heat exchangers, cover ect..

MM

 

[steam man]

If your slab can't hold 8 tons your builder foreman must be worried about his work. Typical floor concrete has a compressive strength of app. 3000psi. Insulation under the floor would be the weak point I would think. The more you spread the load out on the tank support the less impact on the floor. Ask the builder what load the floor can take and design your tank support to spread the load out over enough area to keep it inside that parameter with some safety margin. That should be easy. He should be able to tell you based on the insulation he used. If you make the tank so the connections are easy to remove and you can drain the water, moving the tank if there was a problem isn't impossible. My vote would be to put the tank inside.

Mike

 

[mtnmizer]

I'm going to run this by my engineer and see what he says. He did the wall side load
and truss certs for the architect. I trust my foreman's judgement, he explained
that they don't use a 4" slabs in garages anymore due to problems, 6" slabs only.
He is correct about damaging the heating pipes in the concrete being a major
problem to correct. If I put a tank in and there is a problem, It's my fault,
if a problem occurs other wise it's the builders...

A google on 4" slab loads gave a number of 260lbs/ft max for a sustained load. Not
sure about the source..

Using the existing wall for two sides and adding the other two sides of concrete
wall @ 1 cu yard=4000lbs+1500 gallons of water@ 12,500lbs totals 16,500 lbs on
50 sq ft of slab. Roughly 330 lbs per sq ft. Not a lot if I had put a 6" reinforced footer
down first. I could halve to 750 gal or even a 500 gal metal tank. and spread the
load out too.

Inside install for storage would be ideal but I can do an outside cistern that would be
above the boiler in height. The ground rarely freezed here due to the early snow that
insulates the ground before the really cold weather hits..

A 1500 gal cistern with 8" corbon foam might be enough. Citing the tank 10 ft away
from the foundation would keep the heat loss at an minimum. Set the tank on blocks
and foam all around.

I also have a surplus 500 gal propane tank that we looked at too.

Thanks for any all view on this subject, I'm pretty "stoked" about
getting the boiler.. MM

 

[steam man]

A built in tank is another matter if you have radiant floor tubes underneath. I wouldn't even consider that. For the heck of it if you have the time, go to the STSS tank site and check out their tanks. Look at the size you need and do the load calculations for that. Since they are installed on concrete floors all the time they may have something to say about proper installation of heavy tanks if you called them. Just a thought.

 

[mtnmizer]

Finally got to talk with my engineer and got his blessing
in regards to slab on grade loads. His opinion was that
the loads of 150-250 psf would not be anything to lose
sleep over. Rather minimal he thought as long as the loads were
flat bearing, not concentrated ie claw foot tub..


So I think a cast concrete tank is in order
for me ,epdm lined with a copper line exchager.


The engineer liked the idea of hydronic wood stoves.

MM

 

[MrEd]

Finally got to talk with my engineer and got his blessing in regards to slab on grade loads. His opinion was that the loads of 150-250 psf would not be anything to lose sleep over.

I would hope not. Me standing on a cement slab on one foot would put more 220lbs on an area less than a s.f. I would hope that ANY floor, in almost ANY building could support that weight.

 

[mtnmizer]

Finally got to talk with my engineer and got his blessing in regards to slab on grade loads. His opinion was that the loads of 150-250 psf would not be anything to lose sleep over.

I would hope not. Me standing on a cement slab on one foot would put more 220lbs on an area less than a s.f. I would hope that ANY floor, in almost ANY building could support that weight.

I think most residential floors are rated at 40lb sf live loads. 60lb roof loads are high snow areas.
150-250 loads are pretty high, 4" slab on grade floors can't be engineered, but will take a very high
load if they are made correctly..if the soil underneath is not properly compacted and there
is a void underneath the concrete could easily crack under the weight of a tank. He also
specifically commented on concentraed loads such as the feet of a 500gal propane would
make. That would put the loads over the top MM

 

[jlmilligan]

Here is something to ponder. I have a 4 inch slab in my basement with in slab radiant heat. Sitting on top are my 2 330 gallon oil tanks. Each tank is supported by black iron pipe legs with a flange fitting for the foot. Say the flange is 6" in diameter. 6" by 6" is .25 sq feet. Now remeber the flange is round so it is actually smaller but .25 is an easy number. Oil weighs just over 7 pounds per gallon. My first fill up was 618 gallons. That being said, 7 pounds at 309 gallons equals 2163 pounds. Divide that by 4 equals 540.75 pounds per leg. Now multiply that by 4 to get the pound per square foot equivelant. 2163 pounds per square foot. Not that I would load 5 tons in a 5 square foot area, but just something to think about.
Good luck in your quest