Decisions???

[lawandorder]

Well only one thing is certain and that is I am tired of fuel oil bills.. Rumors for upstate ny have fuel oil close to $5 gal next season. Already 3.89 now. I know I am going to replace the 30 yr old wood stove to help with heat but now also looking at wood gasifier. My thought is that we are planning on a garage this year. Should i build in a boiler type room to the garage or attached to the garage?? If so how big is the ideal room???? Wood Storage?? i have looked around a lot and have read the prices on the websits for EkO/Tarm etc.. but what about installs?? How much is an average installation cost?? I know a lot of factors come into play but anyone know of a ballpark number?? House is 2 years old. DHW runs off oil burner now. Have 5 zones only 4 used. Sorry if this is a newbie/rookie question but once I started looking I seem to be getting deeper and deeper into the "i have no friggin idea" zone. Thanks for all

 

[Eric Johnson]

Hi lawandorder.

Last summer I installed an EKO 60 in a small (4x7x7) cinder block boiler room in my barn. I use part of the barn around the boiler room for wood storage. I paid around $6,000 for the boiler (they're about $1,500 more now) and probably another $5,000 for the tank, piping, pumps, pex, chimney and other components. That's doing all the work myself.

If you're anywhere near the Mohawk Valley, I'd be happy to show you my setup. At current gas prices, I think we saved $4,000 or $5,000 this past winter alone (free wood), and my wife kept the house between 75 and 80 the whole time. Plus all the hot water you can use.

 

[free75degrees]

I just got a tarm 40 for under 7k. They have $500 off now, but I think that is ending either at the end of the month or some time in May. I also have to build a chimney. The parts for the metal chimney came to $1300 and I am installing that myself. The unpressurized tank I am building will cost close to $1000 by the time I am done. So far, if you add that all up I am at about $9k without any other parts and installation. I am hoping to get the install and any other parts for no more than $4k, so that the whole project would be no more than $13k. With my last oil bill at $4/gallon, I figure the wood burner will pay for itself in about 3 or 4 years. Plus, when I redo my driveway in a year or two, the new system will allow me to easily add a snow melt system. I can't wait to see the look on my neighbors' faces when they drag out their snow blowers and see my driveway clean and wet on the first snowstorm.

 

[gorsuchmill]

Eric -

What do you mean by $5000 for the tank and pex, etc. I thought you were going to build your own storage; was some other tank necessary? Also, do you have any idea of the cost of 30' of flue liner? I have an existing masonry chimney that I'd like to use, but may need to reduce the size if the draft isn't adequate.

Thanks.

 

[Eric Johnson]

What I meant was $5,000 for everything except the boiler, which includes about $1,000 in materials for converting my concrete cistern into an insulated tank and the heat exchanger, which I made from rigid copper. Still haven't hooked it up.

A masonry chimney should work if it's in good shape and more or less the right size. You shouldn't have a creosote problem with a gasifier, at least not an Euro-style downdraft gasifier.

 

[gorsuchmill]

Eric -

Not to hijack a thread, but did you ever rule out using cast iron radiators for heat exchangers in a storage tank? I've redone part of my house and have 5 rads of various sizes that I thought might be worth a shot in a 500-800 gallon storage tank.

Thanks again.

 

[Eric Johnson]

I still think that's a great idea. I've floated it around several different forums, and nobody has come up with a good reason not to.

If you're serious about pursuing it, I have a couple of suggestions. First would be to figure out what their heat output would be in a water-to-water application. Water-to-air is a nonstarter--there's simply not enough heat transferred. But water-to-water is a whole nother deal. I don't have the information you'd need to calculate it, but I'm sure somebody around here does.

Secondly, I'd try to get a good coat of primer and paint (or better yet, powder coating) on any rads you're going to use. It would have to be a pretty thorough coating to boot. So rads with fewer nooks and crannies and a "smooth" design would be best. I don't know how much rust you'd get in a semi-closed system like a nonpressurized storage tank, but I bet it wouldn't be a big deal. That said, the more protection the better.

Finally, understand that this is all uninformed speculation on my part. I don't have the experience nor the technical expertise to guarantee anything.

 

[heaterman]

I still think that's a great idea. I've floated it around several different forums, and nobody has come up with a good reason not to.

If you're serious about pursuing it, I have a couple of suggestions. First would be to figure out what their heat output would be in a water-to-water application. Water-to-air is a nonstarter--there's simply not enough heat transferred. But water-to-water is a whole nother deal. I don't have the information you'd need to calculate it, but I'm sure somebody around here does.

Secondly, I'd try to get a good coat of primer and paint (or better yet, powder coating) on any rads you're going to use. It would have to be a pretty thorough coating to boot. So rads with fewer nooks and crannies and a "smooth" design would be best. I don't know how much rust you'd get in a semi-closed system like a nonpressurized storage tank, but I bet it wouldn't be a big deal. That said, the more protection the better.

Finally, understand that this is all uninformed speculation on my part. I don't have the experience nor the technical expertise to guarantee anything.

Rads in a tank Now that's one I haven't heard before..........I don't see any reason it wouldn't work but I would have no idea about the heat transfer rate. My gut feeling is that you could pull every available BTU out of the boiler very quickly with just a couple rads of decent size. RE corrosion, if you properly treat the fluid in the open tank (PH mainly) I doubt that you would have much of an issue.

 

[gorsuchmill]

That settles it. If I can't get a large enough propane tank into my boiler room, I'm going to construct a frame out of angle iron, line it with insulation board, install a liner and connect some rads to see what happens. Worst case the rads won't work well and I'll have to use a better heat exchanger system. FWIW, one of the rads has 11 sections of 5 tubes each measuring 16" or so. If my math is correct, that would equate to 880 inches (73') of cast iron piping from just one radiator. Cast may not exchange as quickly as copper, but it's got to be a lot faster than PEX.

 

[solo40]

I had my Tram Solo 40 installed Nov 07. I did not do much
of the install and my total is 14,600. 6300 for the tarm, 2600 for
the chimney and 5700 or other parts and labor. I do not have
water storage but I am thinking about adding adding solar/water storage
this summer.

Ethan