decorative indoor boiler for radiant heat

[wetdawg]

When I built my house I ran radiant floor heat as asecondary heat source, not knowing exactly how I was going to heat it. I have considered several options, but really wanted to explore an indoor boiler. As this is auxillary heat, I was hoping to find an indoor boiler that could be put in a "three seasons" room, where the residual heat would keep the room a little warmer, and be easy to stoke. I was hoping for something not commercial looking, perhaps even decorative. I have seen some plans for a small outdoor manufactured CHOFU brand adapted for this purpose. Any suggestions...

Chris

 

[Fi-Q]

I'm kind of like you.

I'm working on / off on the road, so I don't know If I will be home (Wich is getting build this summer) during winter. So I'm not sure about spending 5-6k on a boiler If I'm not to use it. So I will have an electric boiler with enough power to heat the whole house if I'm away (Electricity is pretty cheap in Quebec, 7 cents a k/h).

And as a back-up / helper to my electric system, I'm thinking of a regular EPA wood stove, something nice, with a window on the door, and I would add a water jacket, probabbly something like this : (broken link removed to http://www.hilkoil.com/product.htm). I haven't took the time yet to figure out how I'm going to hook all this to getter, but I'm gessing a storage tank with a circulating pump.

And there is one guy who build something pretty nice here : http://www.gulland.ca/homenergy/stove.htm.

Anyway, let us know what you decide......

And, this is my first thread...... this forums looks full good informations And sorry if I made any mistake, english is not my first language!!

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

They're not "decorative," but I'll be putting a Fröling boiler in my porch. It might not look like a fireplace, but it's certainly similar enough to an appliance (and runs clean enough) to be in living space. No louder than a dishwasher, too.

Joe

 

[Fi-Q]

Brownian,

Well, I agree with yout taht a froling is not really ''Atractive'' , I've been reading a lot on wood boiler (And now just found this awesome forum). Have you install a Froling yet ? What a boiler !! Seems like a good units...... but 15k$ ouch And I think that wetdawg is not really looking to put 15k$ on a boiler that would ''decorate'' in 3 season living room.....

But, once you've install a Froling, share with us......

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

Well, I agree with yout taht a froling is not really ''Atractive'' , I've been reading a lot on wood boiler (And now just found this awesome forum). Have you install a Froling yet ? What a boiler !! Seems like a good units...... but 15k$ ouch And I think that wetdawg is not really looking to put 15k$ on a boiler that would ''decorate'' in 3 season living room.....

But, once you've install a Froling, share with us......

We have two of them in and running, right now. It's an impressive machine. They're pricey, though, particularly because they must be installed with a thermal storage tank.

It's very much like an appliance, in looks. So it's not decorative, but it's like having a refrigerator or other appliance in the room.

Joe

 

[cguida]

What does it say about us that we would love to have something the size of a refridgerator that sounds like a washing machine right in our living spaces -- as an object of Veneration(!). May as well put the required storage tank in the livingroom too... Fifteen thousand dollar pocket-protector -- and the amazing thing is that I myself would love to have one... Ah well.

There are new ideas about masonry-heaters-as-boilers that are both beautiful and highly utilitarian. You can combine a masonry heater with a fireplace, and a heat exchanger to distribute heat to remote parts of the house. And, as per Kuznetsov's usual practice, you can install an electric heating element in the system for backup. So the thing could take care of itself when you are not there.

Here is a link to Alex Chernov's site in Quebec. He is sort of the N. American apostle of new 'Russian Fireplace' design.
www.stovemaster.com

Here is the source of the new ideas -- Igor Kuznetsov's site
www.stove.ru
See the Photos section. There must be hundreds of variations on the basic design.
http://www.stove.ru/index.php?lng=1&rs=22

Some samples attached --

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

What does it say about us that we would love to have something the size of a refridgerator that sounds like a washing machine right in our living spaces -- as an object of Veneration(!). May as well put the required storage tank in the livingroom too... Fifteen thousand dollar pocket-protector -- and the amazing thing is that I myself would love to have one... Ah well.

I have something the size of a refrigerator, and something as loud as a dishwasher, in my kitchen

Actually, the noise is only that high when the loading door is open, and the fan is running at 100%. The fan drops to 85% once the door is closed, and the noise level is far lower (it's a logarithmic thing - a 15% decrease in speed gives more than a 15% decrease in sound). There have been times, with these two "test" boilers, that I've just had to open the door and check, because I couldn't tell by listening if the thing was actually running...

Joe

 

[cguida]

I have something the size of a refrigerator, and something as loud as a dishwasher, in my kitchen

Joe

Touchee!, Mr Motion.

Yesterday evening I was wondering: How do you know a Tarm boiler is actually gassing -- as opposed to being briged-out and just spinning its wheels. I can't get down low enough to check the little spyglass. So I open the lower door -- often. Woild it be practical to have some kind of stethascope transducer hooked up to an alarm or other indicator to let you know when the stove needs attention?

Talk about a thread hy-jack.... sorry.

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

Yesterday evening I was wondering: How do you know a Tarm boiler is actually gassing -- as opposed to being briged-out and just spinning its wheels. I can't get down low enough to check the little spyglass. So I open the lower door -- often. Woild it be practical to have some kind of stethascope transducer hooked up to an alarm or other indicator to let you know when the stove needs attention?

The Fröling has an oxygen sensor. So, it will know if it is not gasifying, because the oxygen levels will be out-of-whack with the readings from the other sensors. Of course, because it can control itself, I have a hard time imagining it not gasifying, unless someone really messed up with loading it.

The display screen gives status reports on what's going on, from basic messages ("heating up," "heating," "slumber," "off") to errors, or detailed numbers on various parameters (boiler temp, storage temps, flue gas temp, residual oxygen content, primary and secondary air settings, etc.).

Heck, the first one had a leaky gasket on the loading door. We found out about that because the boiler announced it on the screen ("boiler has air leak").

The thing also has a cell-phone-battery-esque display on the screen, to show how much energy is in the storage tanks, so you know when to do a burn, and can estimate how full to load it. I'm sure there's more that I'm missing...

Joe

 

[cguida]

Amazing, how we've just settled in for a nice chat on somebody elses thread. My question was whether there was some kind of simple non-invasive sonic transducer that one could paste onto the outside of a Tarm-type boiler -- kind of ad hoc.

When I first heard about the Froeling automation --(a THOUSAND bucks for a new board - are you kidding?!) -- I began to wonder about it in terms of the $35 Arduino controller. The key seems to be the transducers -- especially the lambda sensor. Do you know about these things? How much they cost; what kind of an output they deliver; signal pre-processing/interface; calibration? If every car has one nowdays, they can't be that complicated, can they?

Meanwhile, you've probably seen the Froeling ads -- Youth, the clink of wine glasses, beautiful women -- "Much too good for the Basement" is their slogan. All this can be yours for a mere 15thousand dollars. And all this just to charge up a storage tank? Makes me sick -- with envy.

But we can cheer up. In another thread, (Atomos on Ebay) it is noted that East European boilers might be getting cheaper due to truely sickening financal collapse. Austria is deeply implicated via huge loans to the East. So Froeling boilers too might be getting cheaper before too long. [There's a historical irony here. In 1930, the long slide of the U S banking system to breakdown in '33 began with the collapse of the Kredit Anstalt bank in Vienna.]

Anything for an affordable boiler!

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

Well, hopefully, the information will be useful in allowing the original poster to make a decision.

There are certainly a few options out there, from "decorative" to "appliance" in looks, from simple to complex in engineering, and at a variety of efficiency and price points.

Joe

 

[Fi-Q]

Hey wetdawg,

I found this link in an other thread.. : (broken link removed to http://www.rika.at/en/water_heating_stove/)

I don't know about the avalabilty here, but looks like nice decorative boiler !!

 

[Fi-Q]

There is this company too...... http://www.hydro-to-heat-convertor.com/ . They look ''nice'' for a boiler.... but they don't talk about efficency on their web site.