Direct connect combustion air - Wood Gun E100

[Pontypool]

I have an E100 AHS Wood Gun, almost ready for first firing.
It is installed in the basement of my house. To minimize cold air in the basement I would like to attach a 5 inch steel cold air duct directly to the wood gun combustion air box. I would do this by first elbowing from the wood gun combustion air box to the basement floor, then up to the floor joints and then travelling between the joints, through the foundation to outside.
Spent combustion gases will exit via a proper bricked chimney with a clay flue, lined with a 6 inch rigid 24 gauge stainless liner. Connection from cyclone to chimney is 6 inch stainless 24 gauge.

Is this a bad idea, any better suggestions?
pontypool
New Member

Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:02 am
Other Heating: wood gun

• Private message

 

[avc8130]

I have an E100 AHS Wood Gun, almost ready for first firing.
It is installed in the basement of my house. To minimize cold air in the basement I would like to attach a 5 inch steel cold air duct directly to the wood gun combustion air box. I would do this by first elbowing from the wood gun combustion air box to the basement floor, then up to the floor joints and then travelling between the joints, through the foundation to outside.
Spent combustion gases will exit via a proper bricked chimney with a clay flue, lined with a 6 inch rigid 24 gauge stainless liner. Connection from cyclone to chimney is 6 inch stainless 24 gauge.

Is this a bad idea, any better suggestions?
pontypool
New Member

Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:02 am
Other Heating: wood gun

• Private message

Go for it. Lots of guys running the WG use outside combustion air like you are planning.

How about some pics?

Welcome to the fray.

ac

 

[muncybob]

As ac says, yes it can be done. I have not had a need to do so. Mine sits in an unfinished basement with a window cracked open. Pipe runs to about 6" above the concrete floor. Residual heat loss from the WG keeps the basement comfortable.
My chimney set up is similar to yours although mine is not the best configuartion as my set up required more horizontal pipe than from cyc;lone to chimney than I would have liked.

 

[infinitymike]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Your way of piping the combustion air is exactly how they describe it in the WG manual.
I however have it piped the other way they describe in the manual. Mine elbows out of the air intake box and goes down to within 6" of the floor and thats it.
Mine is in my garage and there is more air moving through that leaky old thing then the WG will ever use.

Your chimney connection is fine as well.

Pictures are always a coveted thing here. So please satisfy our desires.

Here come all the questions at once, sorry.
Have you heated with wood before.
What are you heating with the WG
How is the wood supply
How is the wood source
What made you choose the WG
Do you plan on water storage
Whats your dogs name

 

[Pontypool]

Thank you – glad I found this forum – much to be learned and shared from/with my fellow wood burners.
I am contacting AHS today for an updated manual – mine only mentions piping down to the floor.
As it is in my basement and I have heard many utterings about puff-backs I am somewhat paranoid about
the possibility of flame travelling down that air intake in search of air. ONCE is too many times.
The cold air vent is 5” galv 28 ga round duct, running 7 feet between the joints above the boiler
insulated with ½” foil. Then it crosses over the boiler (insulated) downward on a 45 degree angle,
then goes down (UNinsulated) to a 5 gallon steel pail directly behind the cyclone.
I will pipe the boiler air intake outward and downward (at about 3” per foot) for 2 feet then elbow
straight down into the pail beside the fresh air pipe. These pipes remain unconnected about 4 inches
from the bottom of the pail. I have installed a sheet metal divider in the pail 8 inches tall from the bottom.
So the effect (in theory) of this is to bring in fresh air, contain it and keep the pipes physically separated.
Fresh air comes in, fills the pail and is sucked up by the air intake on the other side of the divider.
Also I am installing a 5” round horizontal fire damper just above the pail on the air intake.
Overkill, maybe – fire damper is $35.
Also – my manual makes no mention what the high/low aquastat that came with the boiler does, nor is
there any mention of the start/run switch. Although I am fairly sure I know what these do, I would prefer
they just spell it out, just in case I am missing any finer points.
My HVAC consulting guy (a contractor I pay for info & guidance) tells me I should have insulated smoke pipe
(boiler to chimney) as my clearances are closer to 14 inches. Looking into that today.
I have heated with wood all my life (25 yrs) – but with a forced air wood furnace. It was in the house when I
bought it but horribly inefficient, poorly setup, and poor ducting. Installed larger duct, a 2 speed fan, and designed
my own controls using 2 thermostats, auto-switching between them based on motor speed. The thought being
one setting for flame burn, another setting for non-flame, less vigorous burning during charcoal stage. Went from
10+ bush cords in the first year, to 3 -4 bush cords and an 80 degree house (my wife thinks that’s still a little cool).
But the old wood furnace is over 30 years old – decided to replace it before it fails. WG stood out for efficiency
and ease of cleaning which translates into less work cutting wood, less dismantling & reassembling.
I have a main loop (with Taco variable speed circ) with 10 zones, all with separate
circulators, doing baseboards, in-floor, fan coils , 2nd building (garage) with fan coil, DHW, retro
under-wood sub floor heating, towel racks, bath tub warmers, a 6 port manifold & relay panel for
small add-ons (not plumbed yet), and a filter zone. Doing all design & work myself.
Also, designed my own chiller, valves off of the main fan coil and uses cold clean sump water (I pump
8500 gallons of 48 degree water out of my basement every day) to cool the glycol in the closed fan coil loop.
Running glycol in the whole system. Also designed my own – super slick – glycol make-up.
I have an S-10 pickup, a Stihl 026, a chopping maul and some wedges. My wife and I spend 3 - 4 days
each fall in the bush cutting, splitting, hauling from live standing trees. I cut mainly hickory, oak, maple
and let dry in a rack, 2 years ahead – hopefully not going to be a problem with the WG.
I have allowed space for 60 gallon storage, but starting off without that – AHS says it is not necessary.
I will try it for the first year and see how that goes.
My dog??????
Maybe you would do me the kindness of a note with the same info about your system.
Is your garage attached to the house? Are you storing?
I don’t have many pics but here are a couple of past work in progress.

§

 

[infinitymike]

Nice work there.
Especially the part where the wife comes out into the woods and cuts and splits.


I could sit and type all the info or you could go to YouTube and check out all my wood gun videos
My user name is mike tuto cause I only have 2 toes left after dipping my feet in the shark infested waters
Baahahhaha nah just kidding or maybe I'm not.

 

[avc8130]

I read that novel...and the thing that stands out the most...

8500 GALLONS PER DAY? Do you live on an active geyser?

ac

 

[infinitymike]

Just look where he lives.

I read that novel...and the thing that stands out the most...

8500 GALLONS PER DAY? Do you live on an active geyser?

ac

Just look where he lives...pontyPOOL

 

[Pontypool]

Hey Mike - watched your #3 & #4 videos - very informative for me, gives me a better sense of what to expect when I fire mine - someday. I noticed your power vent hood is not being used, and it didn't look like any smoke came out when you opened the door - so are those hoods redundant?
Good idea having the thermometer on the smoke pipe - made a note to get myself one of those.
Will be searching for more of your videos - thank you for taking the time to make/post them.
It gives me some confidence seeing yours working - my wife says she will be in the field across the road when I finally light mine.
I have always cursed all that water - wears sumps out pumping 6 gallons every minute 24/7/365.
So - lemons to lemonade - now it gravity powers my chiller, then the spent water goes to a rain barrel so my wife has unlimited water for the gardens & I water the lawn (gravity fed sprinklers) whenever I want - who needs rain?

 

[infinitymike]

Hey Mike - watched your #3 & #4 videos - very informative for me, gives me a better sense of what to expect when I fire mine - someday. I noticed your power vent hood is not being used, and it didn't look like any smoke came out when you opened the door - so are those hoods redundant?
Good idea having the thermometer on the smoke pipe - made a note to get myself one of those.
Will be searching for more of your videos - thank you for taking the time to make/post them.
It gives me some confidence seeing yours working - my wife says she will be in the field across the road when I finally light mine.
I have always cursed all that water - wears sumps out pumping 6 gallons every minute 24/7/365.
So - lemons to lemonade - now it gravity powers my chiller, then the spent water goes to a rain barrel so my wife has unlimited water for the gardens & I water the lawn (gravity fed sprinklers) whenever I want - who needs rain?

You are welcome, glad I could be of service.
Give the wife some time, mine has gotten pretty good at taken care of my baby when I'm out at work.
I have since hooked up the smoke hood and it is a big help.
You WILL get smoke even if the fire is out and there is a small bed of coals, as soon as you throw a piece of wood in there you'll create smoke that will try to get out.

Boy I need to shoot more videos, I can't find myself anywhere on you tube.

Here's a quick video I shot today. Enjoy

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[maple1]

Mike, that's a great vid. You're getting good at that.

That box you have your guages in is sweet, with the built in p/s. Sure beats tieing in 8 temp guages to a wall wart and all that wire managing. Mine's still only half done.

I am also having problems comprehending 8000 gallons of sump water a day - wow. That almost sounds like it would make for a really easy & really cheap (realtively speaking) Geothermal application.

 

[Pontypool]

Agreed! Great video Mike. That panel is pretty slick. It is one thing to assume your gasification temp is rising, but quite another to be able to watch it rise by the second.
I can understand how you are getting water temps, but how are you measuring the gasification temp ?
What are you mostly burning, looks like maple maybe?

My brother-in-law has geothermal (done with 9 wells). They have spent much more and are doing much less and when its real cold (yesterday & today it was -31 C or -24 F) they have to have a wood stove on also. I took a hard look at geo but decided to stay with wood. Have no idea how much water would be required for a geo - theirs is ground based. Also with geo, you have to consider you will use a fair bit of electricity as it requires a compressor (like a refridgerator). I guess it is probably more environmentaly friendly, and certainly less work (no fuel gathering, no pipes to clean, no feeding the furnace). For now, I am just happy I am finally getting a benefit from all that water as it has always just been an expense.

 

[infinitymike]

I installed a thermometer in the rear door right inline with the gasification tunnel.

i posted a thread showing it

 

[avc8130]

I just can't fathom 8500 gallons in a day. That is like basically pumping a river. It must cost a fortune to pump all of that water. Why even have a basement? You might have been better off with a house boat!

ac

 

[Green Mt Heat]

Great Video Mike,
Keep filming them,you are the #1 source for Wood Gun videos on the planet!

 

[infinitymike]

Agreed! Great video Mike. That panel is pretty slick. It is one thing to assume your gasification temp is rising, but quite another to be able to watch it rise by the second.
I can understand how you are getting water temps, but how are you measuring the gasification temp ?
What are you mostly burning, looks like maple maybe?

I am burning mostly oak but do have some maple mixed in.

 

[Pontypool]

I like the gasification temp sensor Mike - where did you find that?

AC - should I gather that you do not have a basement? Where I live most (95%) people have them, I just happen to be in an area where there are natural springs. It is a fair bit of water, the pump cycles about 20 seconds on, 40 seconds off, but a $200 sump will last 3 - 7 years. I have 2 separate sumps, each with its own battery backup. Electricity use is about $30 - $40 / month for both
Once it is set up properly (like anything else) it is not a big deal really. Basement is dry, we only use it for storage, laundry, boiler, 6 bush cords wood, etc, but it adds 1200 sq/ft of utility space - all of which is used.
If the power is out, it takes about 2 hours for the 8 inches of stone under the floor to fill up before the backup takes over. Brother-in-law (with geothermal) lives a 15 minute walk away, no ground water, has to be careful with his well - go figure. If I had to choose between these, probably would rather have the water. There have been times though, when there are extreme rains, I have considered pontoons

 

[Pontypool]

I like the gasification temp sensor Mike - where did you find that?

AC - should I gather that you do not have a basement? Where I live most (95%) people have them, I just happen to be in an area where there are natural springs. It is a fair bit of water, the pump cycles about 20 seconds on, 40 seconds off, but a $200 sump will last 3 - 7 years. I have 2 separate sumps, each with its own battery backup. Electricity use is about $30 - $40 / month for both
Once it is set up properly (like anything else) it is not a big deal really. Basement is dry, we only use it for storage, laundry, boiler, 6 bush cords wood, etc, but it adds 1200 sq/ft of utility space - all of which is used.
If the power is out, it takes about 2 hours for the 8 inches of stone under the floor to fill up before the backup takes over. Brother-in-law (with geothermal) lives a 15 minute walk away, no ground water, has to be careful with his well - go figure. If I had to choose between these, probably would rather have the water. There have been times though, when there are extreme rains, I have considered pontoons

 

[avc8130]

I like the gasification temp sensor Mike - where did you find that?

AC - should I gather that you do not have a basement? Where I live most (95%) people have them, I just happen to be in an area where there are natural springs. It is a fair bit of water, the pump cycles about 20 seconds on, 40 seconds off, but a $200 sump will last 3 - 7 years. I have 2 separate sumps, each with its own battery backup. Electricity use is about $30 - $40 / month for both
Once it is set up properly (like anything else) it is not a big deal really. Basement is dry, we only use it for storage, laundry, boiler, 6 bush cords wood, etc, but it adds 1200 sq/ft of utility space - all of which is used.
If the power is out, it takes about 2 hours for the 8 inches of stone under the floor to fill up before the backup takes over. Brother-in-law (with geothermal) lives a 15 minute walk away, no ground water, has to be careful with his well - go figure. If I had to choose between these, probably would rather have the water. There have been times though, when there are extreme rains, I have considered pontoons

Oh, I have a basement. 2500sq ft of it. Dry as a bone. My old house had a basement with a sump pump. Never again.

Good on you for having the battery backup. I had one also. With your quantity I would be scared about having ENOUGH battery backup to last a 10 hour work day without power during a rain storm.

ac

 

[Fred61]

Around these parts the water that seeps into your basement and the water down in the drilled well ain't the same water. Basement water is surface water and drilled well water in from the aquifer or water flowing in the cracks of the bedrock.

 

[Pontypool]

Caught a couple more of your videos Mike - definately like the torch trick and will definately be using that.
I am used to always lighting a fire with chopped kindling cribbed with small firewood above it. I was leary about how the first few fires would go, smoke has a tendacy to rise & scatter and my E100 is in my basement so the smoke would go all through the house. You make it look very easy - there is nothing like a live demo.

With my old wood furnace, I would scoop cold ash/coals from the firebox into a 35 gallon can. About once every two weeks I would sift the contents of the can using a 3/8" screen - any metal pieces went to scrap, coals into a can for re-burning, ash into plastic garbage bags for the curb. I was under the impression coals were not usable in the wood gun, but I see from you video they are still quite valuable. I thank you - it is really great getting all this knowledge without having to stumble around making mistakes to figure it out (which is my usual way of figuring things out).

 

[Pontypool]

Fred61 - curious - why are you a former wood gun owner? Which wood gun did you have?
How long did you have the wood gun? Did you have issues with it?

Mike - Where do you have your combustion air damper set? Do you ever have "puff-back" issues? Anyone?

 

[avc8130]

Fred61 - curious - why are you a former wood gun owner? Which wood gun did you have?
How long did you have the wood gun? Did you have issues with it?

Mike - Where do you have your combustion air damper set? Do you ever have "puff-back" issues? Anyone?

Oh boy...He had an old Wood Gun from back in the day. It was carbon steel and he had nothing but problems with it. He couldn't kick it to the curb fast enough. In his angered haste he didn't even strip any of the antiquated controls off.

I keep my air damper wide open. I find any smaller and the boiler output is reduced. I have installed the "EPA Plug" from AHS to reduce the huffing and puffing when using dry wood.

ac

 

[Pontypool]

"nothing but problems"?? what kind of problems?

EPA plug ???? what is it? , what does it do? cost? is it hard to install?

I am burning Hickory with 15 - 20 % moisture (accounding to my cheap moisture meter).

 

[infinitymike]

Fred61 - curious - why are you a former wood gun owner? Which wood gun did you have?
How long did you have the wood gun? Did you have issues with it?
NO, NO, NO please don't ask that question. Fred just mailed his heart monitor back and this will only upset him and I don't want his heart rate to get elevated.

Mike - Where do you have your combustion air damper set? Do you ever have "puff-back" issues? Anyone?
I pulled my damper out. I found it was running better with it wide open and if I had a puff back it would slam the damper shut.
Yes I have had puff back issues.
They would occur when the unit would shut down and then turn back on within a few minutes. The volatile gases wouldn't have time to dissipate or purge out so the introduction of O2 would cause an ignition.
I have avoided them by raising the operating limit to 200* and set the differential to 30*
Occasionally I may get one now but that is because of the cycle timer. The unit will shut down and the timer will turn it back on.

The EPA plug is just that. It's a plug that pops into either of the side tubes in the refractory. It is to help with huffing from very dry wood.

I think your hickory is to dry and you should mix it with moister wood.
Also the splits should be big. 5x5 to 7x7