DIY non-catalytic to catalytic

[Shagpal]

I have crazy question, and this goes to the more daring, hacking type of owners.

has anyone tried to modify their non-catalytic epa woodstove into a catalytic woodstove? if you did, chime in on hard it was for you to make such a modification, the time, effort and price it cost to make it work

 

[bholler]

I have crazy question, and this goes to the more daring, hacking type of owners.

has anyone tried to modify their non-catalytic epa woodstove into a catalytic woodstove? if you did, chime in on hard it was for you to make such a modification, the time, effort and price it cost to make it work

Why would you?

 

[Shagpal]

Why would you?

I ask if you had tried. I never stated I am trying. this forum is weird

 

[bholler]

I ask if you had tried. I never stated I am trying. this forum is weird

No I have not tried. And don't understand why anyone would honestly. That's why I asked

 

[Shagpal]

No I have not tried. And don't understand why anyone would honestly. That's why I asked

what you are doing is trolling a question and trying to take it to an argument, and that is not why I asked the question

 

[bholler]

what you are doing is trolling a question and trying to take it to an argument, and that is not why I asked the question

No I am simply trying to figure out why someone would want to take a clean burn noncat stove and cut it up to turn it into a cat stove. I am sorry if that offended you.

 

[bholler]

I ask if you had tried. I never stated I am trying. this forum is weird

There were previously some aftermarket cats designed to be put in the pipe just above the stove. But they didn't work well so they weren't on the market long.

 

[Shagpal]

There were previously some aftermarket cats designed to be put in the pipe just above the stove. But they didn't work well so they weren't on the market long.

I saw those earlier threads. made for only specific models. and likely too costly buy and install

you know, putting in an insert correctly is a pain. taking it out to upgrade is even a bigger costlier pain, and sometimes impossible. you asked why anyone would want to upgrade to a catalyst without ripping out an entire unit. this is for economics. realize, people want to upgrade to better without a total tear out and install. itsa niche thing, but it's still ideal for some. the stove companies would just rather you upgrade new, toss away the old, and shell out the money for that

 

[bholler]

I saw those earlier threads. made for only specific models. and likely too costly buy and install

you know, putting in an insert correctly is a pain. taking it out to upgrade is even a bigger costlier pain, and sometimes impossible. you asked why anyone would want to upgrade to a catalyst without ripping out an entire unit. this is for economics. realize, people want to upgrade to better without a total tear out and install. itsa niche thing, but it's still ideal for some. the stove companies would just rather you upgrade new, toss away the old, and shell out the money for that

But it would need to be pulled out in order to convert it. You will need to completely rebuild the internals of the stove as well as the air passages. It would be much more cost effective to sell the noncat and buy a cat stove. Not to mention the stove would no longer be listed making it hard to get insurance on etc etc. Then you have the question of will it work. Stove manufacturers have engineers working for a long time and doing allot of testing to get their stoves to work properly.

And no the aftermarket add-ons were not model specific they simply went in the pipe.

 

[Shagpal]

But it would need to be pulled out in order to convert it. You will need to completely rebuild the internals of the stove as well as the air passages. It would be much more cost effective to sell the noncat and buy a cat stove.

And no the aftermarket add-ons were not model specific they simply went in the pipe.

the thread I read had two different styles that installed inside 2 different specific models. I will link it if I can find that thread.

 

[Shagpal]

the thread I read had two different styles that installed inside 2 different specific models. I will link it if I can find that thread.

found it. here it is:

Nu-tec Nutec Catalytic Add-ons

Nu-tec was a RI company which made some catalytic add-ons for stoves and fireplace inserts. The ad below shows two of their units which were for fireplace inserts of the Buck and Squire variety.

www.hearth.com

 

[Shagpal]

But it would need to be pulled out in order to convert it. You will need to completely rebuild the internals of the stove as well as the air passages. It would be much more cost effective to sell the noncat and buy a cat stove. Not to mention the stove would no longer be listed making it hard to get insurance on etc etc. Then you have the question of will it work. Stove manufacturers have engineers working for a long time and doing allot of testing to get their stoves to work properly.

And no the aftermarket add-ons were not model specific they simply went in the pipe.

found it. here it is:

Nu-tec Nutec Catalytic Add-ons

Nu-tec was a RI company which made some catalytic add-ons for stoves and fireplace inserts. The ad below shows two of their units which were for fireplace inserts of the Buck and Squire variety.

www.hearth.com

 

[EbS-P]

Any modifications of stove would void UL listing and could cause insurance to deny any claims or drop coverage.

Any heat generated would just go up the flue and we are not taking about that much extra heat for an EPA stove. I’m going to guess best case you could improve efficiency 5%. That’s an extra split or two a day.

 

[bholler]

found it. here it is:

Nu-tec Nutec Catalytic Add-ons

Nu-tec was a RI company which made some catalytic add-ons for stoves and fireplace inserts. The ad below shows two of their units which were for fireplace inserts of the Buck and Squire variety.

www.hearth.com

Ok never saw them. But those are meant for old pre epa stoves that really had nothing in the top of the firebox. They were just a basic steel box

 

[ABMax24]

IMO a lot of stoves could have the efficiency improved by redirected the flow of gases in the stove before they exit the flue. In my case the gases do a 180 around the baffle and head straight for the hole in the stove top for the flue. Directing some of these gases to the back corners would result in some increase in heat transfer. The center of the stove can run at 700F, and the back corners are 350F, average this out a little and the blower can remove heat from the stove top more effectively.

 

[bholler]

Any modifications of stove would void UL listing and could cause insurance to deny any claims or drop coverage.

Any heat generated would just go up the flue and we are not taking about that much extra heat for an EPA stove. I’m going to guess best case you could improve efficiency 5%. That’s an extra split or two a day.

Even purpose built cat stoves built by stove companies with engineers and testing facilities barely get 5% efficiency gains over good noncats

 

[bholler]

IMO a lot of stoves could have the efficiency improved by redirected the flow of gases in the stove before they exit the flue. In my case the gases do a 180 around the baffle and head straight for the hole in the stove top for the flue. Directing some of these gases to the back corners would result in some increase in heat transfer. The center of the stove can run at 700F, and the back corners are 350F, average this out a little and the blower can remove heat from the stove top more effectively.

Most better noncats have a deflector above the baffles doing exactly that. It increases dwell time

 

[Shagpal]

Any modifications of stove would void UL listing and could cause insurance to deny any claims or drop coverage.

Any heat generated would just go up the flue and we are not taking about that much extra heat for an EPA stove. I’m going to guess best case you could improve efficiency 5%. That’s an extra split or two a day.

I am gonna guess anyone willing to hack their wood stove is well past their warranty period. I see alot of used wood stoves on craigslist and offerup. totally good functional units that are just too old to be under warranty, and pre EPA certified. I see ones with modified baffles and air tubes for more complete secondary burn. I don't see the harm if your insurance will cover you.

any gasses that a cat can scavenge and turn into heat, even if it's not captured, I'm all for it. better than to off that gas and smoke up the pipe unburned, better for environment and efficiency sake. the hassle may not be worth the effort, but the doing good takes some effort.

my new ashley us stove is just a tad under the 75% threshold to qualify for EPA federal tax rebates. that's a shame, because it was almost there.

 

[begreen]

any gasses that a cat can scavenge and turn into heat, even if it's not captured, I'm all for it. better than to off that gas and smoke up the pipe unburned, better for environment and efficiency sake. the hassle may not be worth the effort, but the doing good takes some effort.

Added on to an insert, most of the heat will not convect well with an add-on, especially if it is behind the insert's surround panel. The benefits may be minimal.

How much wood stove heating will this insert be doing in Southern CA?

 

[Shagpal]

IMO a lot of stoves could have the efficiency improved by redirected the flow of gases in the stove before they exit the flue. In my case the gases do a 180 around the baffle and head straight for the hole in the stove top for the flue. Directing some of these gases to the back corners would result in some increase in heat transfer. The center of the stove can run at 700F, and the back corners are 350F, average this out a little and the blower can remove heat from the stove top more effectively.

I notice alot of posters here talk about maximizing heat extraction. that as a function of the efficiency. of course, the whole reason to burn in the first place. maybe I am looking at it a different way, and that is the not just the heat that goes up out of the flue wasted, but also what is unburned. burning that like flaming methane when oil companies refine, instead of just dumping that methane into the air. it's uncaptured, but it's addressed before it's lost

 

[bholler]

I am gonna guess anyone willing to hack their wood stove is well past their warranty period. I see alot of used wood stoves on craigslist and offerup. totally good functional units that are just too old to be under warranty, and pre EPA certified. I see ones with modified baffles and air tubes for more complete secondary burn. I don't see the harm if your insurance will cover you.

any gasses that a cat can scavenge and turn into heat, even if it's not captured, I'm all for it. better than to off that gas and smoke up the pipe unburned, better for environment and efficiency sake. the hassle may not be worth the effort, but the doing good takes some effort.

my new ashley us stove is just a tad under the 75% threshold to qualify for EPA federal tax rebates. that's a shame, because it was almost there.

He didn't say anything about warranty. He said ul listing without that an insurance company will have grounds to deny a claim

 

[Shagpal]

Added on to an insert, most of the heat will not convect well with an add-on, especially if it is behind the insert's surround panel. The benefits may be minimal.

How much wood stove heating will this insert be doing in Southern CA?

believe it or not, I do my share. I'm in the mountains. we can start snowing up here as early as end of october and go well into early may. the groovy wood to use in socal is eucalyptus. burns hot when it gets going

 

[Shagpal]

He didn't say anything about warranty. He said ul listing without that an insurance company will have grounds to deny a claim

I would think, UL listing or not, out of warranty or not, any fire caused due to modification will result in a denied claim. most things will burn away, but not the evidence remaining inside that box

 

[bholler]

I notice alot of posters here talk about maximizing heat extraction. that as a function of the efficiency. of course, the whole reason to burn in the first place. maybe I am looking at it a different way, and that is the not just the heat that goes up out of the flue wasted, but also what is unburned. burning that like flaming methane when oil companies refine, instead of just dumping that methane into the air. it's uncaptured, but it's addressed before it's lost

But to fit a cat in a tube stove you will need to tear out the tubes and baffles to fit a cat and bypass to gain what?

 

[bholler]

I would think, UL listing or not, out of warranty or not, any fire caused due to modification will result in a denied claim. most things will burn away, but not the evidence remaining inside that box

So why take the risk and modify a perfectly good stove