Do new glass doors on a ZC fireplace need air louvers?

[Retired Coal Miner]

I have a manufactured/zero clearance fire place in a 30+ year old condominium for which I'm about to get glass doors. The fireplace has only a mesh screen original to the fireplace.

I'll keep the mesh screen and the doors will fit in front of the screen.

I'm hung up on whether or not to get louvers in the new doors, and I'm posting this to ask about the pros and cons of doing so. The options are top and bottom louvers, or only bottom lovuers. I suppose only top louvers are also an option.

I've read where ZC fireplaces are described as being 'air cooled.' I see the openings in my fireplace top and bottom where this air flow is supposed to happen. During burning air is not moving at 50 MPH through the bottom and top openings, and I question if glass doors with no louvers will have any effect at all, given that the doors will be open when burning and closed when not burning and when the fire is dying out.

I was going to get the doors with no louvers, but finding this thread (from a fireman's web site) caused to rethink.
http://my.firefighternation.com/forum/topics/zero-clearance-fireplace

Any comments, what is the good practice in this?

 

[bholler]

For a zero clearance unit you really need to use doors which are specified for that specific unit

 

[Retired Coal Miner]

For a zero clearance unit you really need to use doors which are specified for that specific unit

Understood. The original manufacturer has gone out of business. Doors that are available -- they are factory made to specific sizing -- have the option of both, none or one louver. That's why I'm unsure.

 

[webby3650]

Fireplace door manufacturers like Stoll and Design Specialties make doors specifically for ZC fireplaces. They are custom sized to your fireplace and they look awesome. They also make a reface for ZC boxes that really improves the look. The door you pick needs to be approved for a ZC application, you’ve got a lot of options. (broken link removed to http://www.stollfireplace.com/manufactured/zcReface)
I’m not familiar with glass doors that have louvers, the fireplace itself has grills top and bottom for cooling, but not the door. Like you said, you have to leave the doors open while using it anyway.

 

[bholler]

Fireplace door manufacturers like Stoll and Design Specialties make doors specifically for ZC fireplaces. They are custom sized to your fireplace and they look awesome. They also make a reface for ZC boxes that really improves the look. The door you pick needs to be approved for a ZC application, you’ve got a lot of options. (broken link removed to http://www.stollfireplace.com/manufactured/zcReface)
I’m not familiar with glass doors that have louvers, the fireplace itself has grills top and bottom for cooling, but not the door. Like you said, you have to leave the doors open while using it anyway.

You do realize that changing out the face pr even just the doors is ahainst code and voids the ul listing right

 

[Retired Coal Miner]

You do realize that changing out the face pr even just the doors is ahainst code and voids the ul listing right

I wasn't aware of the code restriction, and sort of knew any modifications would void the UL listing. The manufacturer is out of business years ago, (Standex Energy Systems/Woodside Fireplace Division, Detroit Lakes, MN).

Code restrictions and UL listings must have something to do with the way some after market/third-party manufacturers doors attach magnetically, to avoid any fasteners or direct mechanical attachment to the frame or box.

What is the opinion of glass doors from Portland Willamette?

 

[webby3650]

You do realize that changing out the face pr even just the doors is ahainst code and voids the ul listing right

Ohh come on...

 

[webby3650]

His hands are tied here, with an old box from a manufacturer that’s out of business. A set of doors from a reputable manufacturer that approves them for ZC will be just fine. So if a ZC needs need doors, the entire system needs torn out and replaced? We do dozens upon dozens of doors for ZC boxes, it’s a big market!

 

[bholler]

I wasn't aware of the code restriction, and sort of knew any modifications would void the UL listing. The manufacturer is out of business years ago, (Standex Energy Systems/Woodside Fireplace Division, Detroit Lakes, MN).

Code restrictions and UL listings must have something to do with the way some after market/third-party manufacturers doors attach magnetically, to avoid any fasteners or direct mechanical attachment to the frame or box.

What is the opinion of glass doors from Portland Willamette?

No code and ul restrictions have to do with the requirement by the manufacturers to only used products and accessories approved for use with that unit by the manufacturer and tested with that unit.

 

[bholler]

Ohh come on...

So its acceptable to ignore code when it is a pain?

 

[bholler]

His hands are tied here, with an old box from a manufacturer that’s out of business. A set of doors from a reputable manufacturer that approves them for ZC will be just fine. So if a ZC needs need doors, the entire system needs torn out and replaced? We do dozens upon dozens of doors for ZC boxes, it’s a big market!

If the accessories are not approved by the manufacturer and tested on the unit they cant be used. It is pretty straight forward really

 

[webby3650]

If the accessories are not approved by the manufacturer and tested on the unit they cant be used. It is pretty straight forward really

So his only option is to remove the fireplace and have it replaced with a new one? That’s ridiculous when there’s perfectly acceptable and safe alternatives.

To the OP, look into quality doors from Stoll, Design Specialties, and PW. We don’t really do anything from Portland anymore, I’m sure they have a few good options though.

 

[bholler]

So his only option is to remove the fireplace and have it replaced with a new one? That’s ridiculous when there’s perfectly acceptable and safe alternatives.

To the OP, look into quality doors from Stoll, Design Specialties, and PW. We don’t really do anything from Portland anymore, I’m sure they have a few good options though.

If you are worried about being code compliant at all yes that is the only option. And besides this is a 30 year old unit with a projected lifespan of 15 to 20 years. At the very least it needs a full level 3 inspection at this point

 

[bholler]

So his only option is to remove the fireplace and have it replaced with a new one? That’s ridiculous when there’s perfectly acceptable and safe alternatives.

To the OP, look into quality doors from Stoll, Design Specialties, and PW. We don’t really do anything from Portland anymore, I’m sure they have a few good options though.

And who says the options are acceptable and safe??? Are they tested on each unit to ul standards? Are they tested to any standards?

 

[Retired Coal Miner]

Given all the above, (which is informative and helpful) back to main question, please: Louver vents or not on third party glass doors?

What is the good practice in doing this?

 

[bholler]

Given all the above, (which is informative and helpful) back to main question, please: Louver vents or not on third party glass doors?

If you are going to do it atleast match the original specs.

 

[bholler]

I really dont understand why so many guys just completly ignore code and listing requirements when it comes to zc fireplaces. It just doesnt make sense to me

 

[webby3650]

Given all the above, (which is informative and helpful) back to main question, please: Louver vents or not on third party glass doors?

What is the good practice in doing this?

What louvers are you talking about? Replacement ZC doors allow air around the glass panels, they don’t seal up tight like masonry doors often do. They usually fit inside the opening and don’t block any part of the fireplace or any of it’s cooling air. They simply replace the factory door. It’s a nice upgrade.

 

[Retired Coal Miner]

What louvers are you talking about? Replacement ZC doors allow air around the glass panels, they don’t seal up tight like masonry doors often do. They usually fit inside the opening and don’t block any part of the fireplace or any of it’s cooling air. They simply replace the factory door. It’s a nice upgrade.

I'm not talking about replacement doors, my FP has only a mesh screen, currently no doors. These will be new doors.

The doors I've been looking at do not fit inside, they attach magnetically to the outermost flat metal facade (Trim Panels/filler panels in first image here). Some wood trim is proud to that flat metal so the doors will appear to be flush with the wood trim.

Back to louvers, the doors -- manufacturers mentioned above -- have optional 'openings,' louvers or just plain mesh, at the bottom of the doors and the top of the doors, (example (broken link removed)) positioned to match up with the intake air opening. If you get this option the doors are correspondingly shorter in the vertical dimension.

My question comes down to, if you never burn with the doors closed, do you really need louvers on the doors? The intake and heated return air pathways are always exposed and unobstructed when the doors open.

 

[bholler]

I'm not talking about replacement doors, my FP has only a mesh screen, currently no doors. These will be new doors.

The doors I've been looking at do not fit inside, they attach magnetically to the outermost flat metal facade (Trim Panels/filler panels in first image here). Some wood trim is proud to that flat metal so the doors will appear to be flush with the wood trim.

Back to louvers, the doors -- manufacturers mentioned above -- have optional 'openings,' louvers or just plain mesh, at the bottom of the doors and the top of the doors, (example (broken link removed)) positioned to match up with the intake air opening. If you get this option the doors are correspondingly shorter in the vertical dimension.

My question comes down to, if you never burn with the doors closed, do you really need louvers on the doors? The intake and heated return air pathways are always exposed and unobstructed when the doors open.

You cannot obstruct those air vents in any way. So if you get doors (which i still recomend against due to code violation) you would need to get ones that did not interfere with those vents.

 

[webby3650]

I'm not talking about replacement doors, my FP has only a mesh screen, currently no doors. These will be new doors.

The doors I've been looking at do not fit inside, they attach magnetically to the outermost flat metal facade (Trim Panels/filler panels in first image here). Some wood trim is proud to that flat metal so the doors will appear to be flush with the wood trim.

Back to louvers, the doors -- manufacturers mentioned above -- have optional 'openings,' louvers or just plain mesh, at the bottom of the doors and the top of the doors, (example (broken link removed)) positioned to match up with the intake air opening. If you get this option the doors are correspondingly shorter in the vertical dimension.

My question comes down to, if you never burn with the doors closed, do you really need louvers on the doors? The intake and heated return air pathways are always exposed and unobstructed when the doors open.

Okay. What you are looking at is a ZC reface. You absolutely need to have louvers, or hopefully something more decorative like Stoll offers. Stoll products are hands down a better product than others are offering, but you pay for it.. Absolutely maintain free air to the original louvers on the Fireplace.

 

[bholler]

Okay. What you are looking at is a ZC reface. You absolutely need to have louvers, or hopefully something more decorative like Stoll offers. Stoll products are hands down a better product than others are offering, but you pay for it.. Absolutely maintain free air to the original louvers on the Fireplace.

Does stoll test their doors to any sort of standard?