Downsize stove or just cope.

[Kenny78]

How important is firebox size for usable heating. Will a smaller stove be able to run more wide open? I am dubious of sqft ranges and also max btu ranges . Also, no local stove dealers(that I have found) are able to elucidate on such topics. I am looking at staying with epa secondary air stoves. Specifically, a Napoleon 1100 banff, firebox size of 1.7cuft. Current stove is a quadrafire 4300 acc 2.3cuft

We purchased a quadrafire 4300 freestanding stove to replace a pre pea insert two years ago. The insert had a 3.0 cubic foot firebox. Between shoddy door gaskets, pre epa insert etc this was a bad sizing guide. The stove is great but it is hard to keep the fire small enough without running the house past 80. Maybe we don't know the tricks, but we have to burn very small fires for much of the season. With some door and window replacements in the near future I fear it will be even worse.

Thanks for the advice

 

[littlalex]

How important is firebox size for usable heating. Will a smaller stove be able to run more wide open? I am dubious of sqft ranges and also max btu ranges . Also, no local stove dealers(that I have found) are able to elucidate on such topics. I am looking at staying with epa secondary air stoves. Specifically, a Napoleon 1100 banff, firebox size of 1.7cuft. Current stove is a quadrafire 4300 acc 2.3cuft

We purchased a quadrafire 4300 freestanding stove to replace a pre pea insert two years ago. The insert had a 3.0 cubic foot firebox. Between shoddy door gaskets, pre epa insert etc this was a bad sizing guide. The stove is great but it is hard to keep the fire small enough without running the house past 80. Maybe we don't know the tricks, but we have to burn very small fires for much of the season. With some door and window replacements in the near future I fear it will be even worse.

Thanks for the advice

Don't have any advice but share the same problem. Have an old VC Vigilant. Only advice I've gotten is to burn smaller fires. My experience is as time passes the coal bed gets larger and I have a way too hot fire in no time at all. Stove room is 14x22 w/16 ft Cathedral ceiling. Last night temp reached 88F with window open and small fan pulling cold air in. I loved the idea of a wood stove until I had to live with this beast. Now I dread Winter. Used to be the opposite. One could put in a small split or two every 30-45 min. I find that a totally unacceptable option.

Ah well, didn't mean to hijack the thread but figured it wouldn't interfere with you getting advice.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[redktmrider]

You can always open a window

 

[kennyp2339]

I understand your conundrum, it sounds like you either have an awesome insulated home or you live in a warmer winter climate. Since you stated that you want to stay in the epa air tube reburn I would recommend a smaller unit. The idea with these epa stoves is to learn how to dial them in, believe it or not the more your air adjustment is pulled out the more heat goes up your chimney, the stove should be sized right to dial the air down some (all settings are different due to pressures and drafts) so that you get whisper flames with secondary reburn and a stove top around 550 - 650 deg in cruise mode. You may also want to check out a more convective jacketed type stove, radiant might be to much but a convective stove without the blower running may slightly lower the temp a little without the blower running but if you need extra heat the blower is there to pump some btu's. Also be advised a smaller fire box equals shorter burn times, so you may have to fight constant re-lights if your away from home for periods greater than 8hrs.
Of course you would be a good candidate for a blaze king but I understand cat stoves are not for everyone and the initial price for a bk may sway people away.

 

[Doc C]

What a great question... I will share what I found.

My house is 1960ish square feet. 2 stories. R19 walls, R30 floors, and 4' ish of insulation in the attic.

I purchased an Englander 30 a couple years ago. I ran it for 2 winters and it was WAY too much stove for our house.

It doesn't help that the stove is in our living room and the room itself is not very big.

I got tired of running to stove so cold that I was plugging my chimney with creosote. Masonry chimney so it gets a little more creosote then say a lined steel pipe chimney.

Also I had to open all the windows in the downstairs in the middle of winter to keep the house cooled off enough to get my teeth to stop sweating.

I ended up selling the 30 and bought an Englander 13. This is the first year running this size stove in the house.

It's nice because I can run it more like I think it should be ran. Its getting cold here. Probably high teens low 20's at night and low 30's in the day.

Stove is keeping up just fine.

Overnight fires are harder to make happen.

Also I have another heat source if this stove is not able to keep up in the dead of winter although I think it will be able to without a problem.

If I did not have a back up heat source I would stick with being too hot with a large stove then risk not being warm enough.

 

[Squisher]

It's a good problem to have. Instead of being the other way around. I heat from my (below ground)basement mostly and moderate temperature by whether I start or how long I burn the upstairs insert which is the main living area for the most part. But in milder times I just run the basement stove and if things get to hot I just load smaller and idle on the coals more. If coals were giving me to much heat I'd just let the fire go out. Shoulder season burning. A fire in the evening that I just let burn out. And another in the morning if nescessary. Now that I use firestarters I never use/need kindling so restarting a fire isn't much hassle just a little bit of expense.

 

[RobbieB]

Get a smaller stove.

 

[branchburner]

It's a good problem to have. Instead of being the other way around.

Yes!
I have a smaller house, but old and leaky, so I actaully decide to upsize. Now it would have been "smarter" to tighten up the house, but I like the idea that a lot of fresh air is flowing through here (moves out the radon, etc.). I also cut my own wood and enjoy it, so don't mind the extra fuel expended. I also don't mind the stove room going above 80f. I also own a cat hybrid, so have greater ability to dial it down and burn a smaller fire with less heat output but not too much smoke/creosote.

So you could...
1) Have those door and window replacements be screen-equipped
2) Learn to love a sauna
3) Get a cat or cat hybrid of 1.5-2.5 cu ft

You could of course get a smaller non-cat, too, but a catalytic stove sound like it might be a good bet. Nothing wrong with smaller fires, so long as you can keep them fairly efficient, and chimney clean. You could also try burning lower BTU softwoods, if available. (Again, nice problem to have!)

A 2.3 cu ft box isn't exactly huge. How big is your (apparently well-insulated) house, and where do you live?

 

[Squisher]

Also how are you monitoring stove/pipe temps and what sort of temps are you seeing. Also what sort of burn times and what kinds of woods do you have access to or burn most frequently?

 

[Hogwildz]

Just burn smaller loads. That is all you will be doing with a smaller stove. Smaller load, shorter burn times. Whether in a 1.7 cf or 3.0cf. If you do downsize, make sure you enough for the coldest nights.

 

[Kenny78]

House background: Very NE corner of Oklahoma. R 19 walls and roof(2x6 "joists" with beams no attic) with 8" limestone on the walls. When the roof needs redone I will improve the insulation to a better standard. We had a first generation mini split that wouldn't heat under 40. I installed a new Fujitsu that will heat down to +5 or so. It has done fine so far but our family loves the wood heat feeling. The stove is in the 700 sqft room with the two bedrooms forming the top of the u for a house total of 1300 sqft. Temperature variations are not extreme even with little or no mechanical air exchange. This should be further reduced when the bathroom exterior door and master bathh windows are upgraded.

This current quadrafire will go in the home we eventually build. As an example, the sleep rays from the late evening fire knocked me out. Woke up to almost no coals. I understand that a smaller stove will not burn as long, but I am usually unable to get a large load carbonized to where I can turn the air down and let the secondaries do their thing.

The fuel is various oaks and hickory. We harvest it off the property.

 

[Kenny78]

Hogwild, isn't there a point where the efficiency suffers? Won't a smaller stove be able to cruise more of the time.

It is very easy to have hot coals in the morning as long as outside temps stay below 40 but it is rare to be able to load thr stove heavy and maintain good ignition.

I have never gotten a pipe or stovetop thermometer other than antecdotal IR and Fluke thermocouple musings. I know that I should obtain and use these tools.

 

[jwfirebird]

size of splits helps, if you burn small piece many times, that will make it way hotter, better to burn big stuff and let it go out, the bigger mass will help. the heavier the stove the more regulation in temps you get. you could add mass or fire bricks above it. don't know what that stove has but you could try that too, if it doesn't have many bricks

 

[LondonNeil]

You can't burn slower so need to burn smaller for less heat. Small fires in a large stove are hard, the stove sucks the heat out and the fires die down but you can combat that cheaply. Buy some vermiculite bricks and line each side of the stove part way up. This extra insulation should be enough to keep a smaller fire burning. It's a cheap fix and will enable you to experience a smaller firebox with its pros and cons

 

[Doc C]

I can tell you in my case I could not burn small enough fires. I had a creosote factory.

Personally I think too big of a stove is a fire hazard, uncomfortable, and a waste of wood.

I know those are strong words but the decision to get to big of a stove cost me alot of money and frustration.

Also I tried lining the stove with extra bricks and it was not enough to help.

 

[webby3650]

I can tell you in my case I could not burn small enough fires. I had a creosote factory.

Personally I think too big of a stove is a fire hazard, uncomfortable, and a waste of wood.

I know those are strong words but the decision to get to big of a stove cost me alot of money and frustration.

Also I tried lining the stove with extra bricks and it was not enough to help.

Small fires will not cause excessive creosote build up. A small load of dry wood will burn efficiently just as a large load will, if the wood is dry and the proper amount of air is allowed in.

After hearing these stories it blows my mind that a cat stove isn’t desired. A Blaze King is the answer to your problem. You can still have a usable sized firebox and control the heat output! It’s possible! I know people say a cat stove isn’t for everyone, (not sure why) but they are most certainly for situations just like this.

 

[Hogwildz]

A small load is a small load. Whether in a small firebox, or large. It is the same amount of fuel. In either case, you need to get the stove up to temp to combat creosote. I load small fires quite a bit in the shoulder season, and it performs the same whether I load the stove full, or small load. similar temps, but shorter burn times, and never have an issue with performance or creosote. As a matter of fact, I always use a small load as the starter fire when lighting a cold stove. Mostly to get it up to temp, and establish a good coal bed for a full reload.

If you're getting creosote, that means your wood is wet, your draft is weak, or you're cutting the air back too soon and smoldering the load from burning. You will have the same results regardless of firebox size, if not burning properly dried fuel, in a proper manner. A smaller stove doesn't magically burn at lower temps, or burn any cleaner than a large stove, if the same practices and temps aren't established. Then only difference is a larger load may burn hotter & longer due to more fuel to be consumed.

Possibly a cat stove is what you seek for more even, lower temp burning.

 

[Doc C]

Small fires will not cause excessive creosote build up. A small load of dry wood will burn efficiently just as a large load will, if the wood is dry and the proper amount of air is allowed in.

After hearing these stories it blows my mind that a cat stove isn’t desired. A Blaze King is the answer to your problem. You can still have a usable sized firebox and control the heat output! It’s possible! I know people say a cat stove isn’t for everyone, (not sure why) but they are most certainly for situations just like this.

The problem I found with an oversized stove is that even a small fire burning properly heats up the entire stove. And in my case a 3.5 cubic foot box heated up caused the bottom floor of my house to be over 90 degrees on the middle of winter and that's with small fires. And we have cold winters.

I tried for 2 full seasons and with the help of people here to get it to not be so hot and nothing I tried worked.

I completely clogged my masonry chimney in 3 months to where I had to use a 2x4 and hammer it through the creosote to get it to break up. That was burning wood with the proper moisture content and small fires.

 

[Doc C]

And I would argue that a small stove DOES burn at lower Temps. Let me correct this statement. NOT lower Temps but less btus that come off the stove.

There is a huge difference in heat that comes out of the 13 vs the 30

I use roughly the same size load of wood in the 13 that I would use in the 30 when I had small fires.

Yet I can keep my windows closed with the 13.

The 13 throws almost zero smoke out the chimney where the 30 would always smoke unless I had the air open at least half way.

I have the same moisture meters, the same firewood process, the same chimney. The only thing I changed was the stove.

Now maybe a stove that is more convection then radiant type of heat might not be as noticeable but in the case of these steel stoves that radiate so much heat it's a huge difference.

 

[MtnBURN]

Small fires will not cause excessive creosote build up. A small load of dry wood will burn efficiently just as a large load will, if the wood is dry and the proper amount of air is allowed in.

After hearing these stories it blows my mind that a cat stove isn’t desired. A Blaze King is the answer to your problem. You can still have a usable sized firebox and control the heat output! It’s possible! I know people say a cat stove isn’t for everyone, (not sure why) but they are most certainly for situations just like this.

Not to be one of those BK "fan boys"....but webby knows the drill and speaks the truth. So do I. We burn a BK Princess in an 800 sq ft house and can keep the house wherever we desire from 68-7_ whatever with just the turn of a dial. The stove will also burn for 24 hours with little to no tending.

Our last stove...an old Buck...was a fire breathing dragon out of the gate that would then put on an ice coat in 4 hours. No control to speak of. An out-of-control roller coaster ride of high and low temps. That stuff gets old fast. We HEAT with wood (ripped out the gas/electric/bill producing crap a few years ago)...so the total control factor BK offers is very, very nice....required in fact! That is....if you like steady, radiant heat 24/7.

best of luck....(or get a BK and know what will happen)

 

[BKVP]

Surface area. If you have more steel surface area in a particular stove model, you have more heat exchanging properties. So while FBV is a good specification, the surface area can make a big difference as well.

 

[branchburner]

The fuel is various oaks and hickory. We harvest it off the property.

Yup, you are cursed with great, high-density wood and a really good stove that is a bit too big for the house. Many long for such problems!

I am also of the opinion that going to a catalytic or cat-hybrid stove, rather than just to a SMALLER stove, would be a good way to go.

 

[twd000]

Small fires will not cause excessive creosote build up. A small load of dry wood will burn efficiently just as a large load will, if the wood is dry and the proper amount of air is allowed in.

After hearing these stories it blows my mind that a cat stove isn’t desired. A Blaze King is the answer to your problem. You can still have a usable sized firebox and control the heat output! It’s possible! I know people say a cat stove isn’t for everyone, (not sure why) but they are most certainly for situations just like this.

Reading threads like this, what strikes me is how much damage was done by a few of the lousy early designs for catalytic stoves. Even 30+ years later, some people will avoid even considering a catalytic stove because of some of the crap that was put out there. This is CLEARLY an application for a Blaze King or Woodstock, or ..pick your brand...modern clean-burning, easy-to-use catalytic stove.

 

[Doc C]

In my case the cat stoves were out of my price range. I really wanted a BK just could not afford one

 

[Squisher]

How close would you be to a BK though now that you've bought two stoves and sold one?