Drainage pipe for storage ?

[GARYL]

I saw our local town highway crew pulling up an old corrugated metal drainage pipe (which could have been reused) from under a road and started thinkin' this might make a good storage solution. Build a square form on top of insulation board and pour in concrete. While it is still wet place one end of a culvert pipe into the cement and let harden. You have a tank which doesn't need reinforcing nor should it need a liner if you coat the cement. Build a square wall on top of your square cement and insulate the void between the metal pipe and the wooden walls with foam or whatever. You could make the wooden walls out of 2X2's because they have no pressure aginst them and put rigid board insulation on the outside for even higher R's. The top could be made to rest on the square walls.

I called a local supplier and found that a 6 ft diameter by 5 ft long piece of galvanized corrugated pipe is about $500. I figured this would give about 1000 gallons storage. He also has an aluminized coated pipe for about $10 a linear foot more. This is the only price I got, so it may be cheaper someplace else, but 50 cents a gallon ain't bad. I wouldn't rule out reusing something the town dug up. The foreman told me they do it because they are rebuiding the road NOT because the pipe is bad!!

This might be a good way to build underground storage with good stratification and use even longer pieces of pipe for more storage. The pipe comes in diameter increments of 6 inches. So a 5 ft diameter by 7 foot length would also hold about 1000 gallons.

Kinda thinking out loud here and wanted opinions.

Gary

 

[Eric Johnson]

That's not a bad idea at all. Pressurized, you think?

 

[GARYL]

That's not a bad idea at all. Pressurized, you think?

I don't think so unless one could weld a top on it. The engineer at the pipe manufacturer said they could fabricate a top for me...BUT I didn't ask the price!

Not having to have Hx's would be nice but I don't see a way around it without alot of expense BUT the expense may not be more the than cost of the Hx's. So at this point....I don't know.

Gary

 

[Nofossil]

Interesting idea. I don't think I'd be daring enough to try pressurized (just calculate the force on the lid for fun) but it seems like a really inexpensive approach for nonpressurized storage. I don't know if there's any issue with concrete at elevated temperatures, but it seems like it ought to work. I'm imagining designing a house with a row of them hidden behind a false wall along the north side of the building.

 

[GARYL]

Interesting idea. I don't think I'd be daring enough to try pressurized (just calculate the force on the lid for fun) but it seems like a really inexpensive approach for nonpressurized storage. I don't know if there's any issue with concrete at elevated temperatures, but it seems like it ought to work. I'm imagining designing a house with a row of them hidden behind a false wall along the north side of the building.

The concrete at temps of 200F+ worry me too. I think the expansion & contraction would have a very negative effect!! :bug: Maybe there is a waterproof insulated board that could be cut to cover the cement on the bottom of the tank and caulked against the pipe? Dunno.

Gary

 

[GARYL]

Now I'm thinkin' .... why use cement?? Why not weld a bottom on the pipe and set it on insulation board and frame up around the outside of the insulation board and insulate the void as I said in my first post. Simpler, neater, easier and probably cheaper!! (and can be moved if needed)

Do you think I would still have to treat the water if the pipe is galvanized or aluminized?

Gary

 

[Sting]

huge used drain pipe like this will have "divots" in the coating - spots where untreated water will attack. Also don't forget - welding the cap for the bottom will make a long line of unprotected material adjacent to the weld line.

Pressurize it --- no --- the horizontal weld line of the length of the pipe is not done by a certified welder.

 

[GARYL]

huge used drain pipe like this will have "divots" in the coating - spots where untreated water will attack. Also don't forget - welding the cap for the bottom will make a long line of unprotected material adjacent to the weld line.

Pressurize it --- no --- the horizontal weld line of the length of the pipe is not done by a certified welder.

I was figuring on the weld tracks a paint of somekind could be used but I didn' think about "divots". So, would the solution be to spray the inside of the pipe with some kind of metal paint? Are the "divots" likely to be on "new" pipe?

I didn't think about the horizontal weld either, as far as strength for pressurizing. I was thinking of installing underground and welding a top and bottom and going pressurized. If the pipe was surrounded by foam insulation and dirt and the top had 4 feet of dirt over it (and a small shed for saftey), do you think it could be pressurized. What pressure would be needed in a hydronic system? Isn't it very low?

Gary

 

[free75degrees]

What about those sprayed on truck bed liners? Rhino web site says they are rated to 190*F. I think you need to be able to bring the item to be sprayed to the spray shop, but with a big metal tube that would not be too hard.

 

[jebatty]

Do you think I would still have to treat the water if the pipe is galvanized or aluminized?

I vote for always treating the water in an open system. You need to make sure that pH is 8 or more (not sure of how high you can go), O2 scavenger (sulfite) and ideally total alkalinity (200-700?). Corrosion occurs rapidly with hot water and is very aggressive.

Keep in mind that a drainage pipe rarely is filled with water, is installed horizontally, and is fully supported on all sides by earth. If it's free standing, especially vertical, pressures will be very great as compared to what the pipe was designed to do.

 

[GARYL]

Keep in mind that a drainage pipe rarely is filled with water, is installed horizontally, and is fully supported on all sides by earth. If it's free standing, especially vertical, pressures will be very great as compared to what the pipe was designed to do.

I talked with the pipe manufacturer and he stated that the corrugated galvanized would not be a problem in the application I outlined, which was 6 ft diameter and 7 ft high. When you think about it, they have alot of weight on them when they are used as a culvert pipe. That being said I don't think I would attempt much more than 7 ft high freestanding without checking into it further.

I would think that if it were buried in the vertical position you could make it very tall as the dirt pushing against the insulation would equal the force of the water. It would be easy to get 2k or 3k gallons that way. A pipe with a welded bottom that was 6 ft diameter and 10 ft high (5 ft underground and 5 ft above) would have 2k gallons and great stratification. I know it would be hard to do in most circumstances but in my case it would work. To get the same gallonage with tanks it would eat up alot of sq ft.

I had pretty much made up my mind about getting a Switzer but I have hesitated because of all the room it takes. I just keep reading this forum and get new ideas all the time. I don't want to wait too long but I can't help thinking that a whole bunch more options are gonna appear over the next months and couple years.

 

[jebatty]

I would think that if it were buried in the vertical position you could make it very tall as the dirt pushing against the insulation would equal the force of the water.

That would be a solution, and a little care would be needed to properly pack the backfill around the pipe to equal the force of water in the pipe. Probably would want to backfill and pack as the tank is being filled.

 

[Redox]

I'm not a fan of the whole pressurization thing, but if it were underground, it might be okay. I'll leave it at that.

We used to use "cold galvanizing" paint on the insides of cooling towers when making repairs. It does stop corrosion, but I can't say how it holds up to the heat.

Chris

 

[2.beans]

if you get a treated pipe like a galvy one welding to it for a water tight seal will be really hard to do. you can grind off the treated area that your going to weld to but you never get it all off and usually gives you a really bad weld.

 

[GARYL]

if you get a treated pipe like a galvy one welding to it for a water tight seal will be really hard to do. you can grind off the treated area that your going to weld to but you never get it all off and usually gives you a really bad weld.

I talked to a couple "lifer" welders and they pretty much said the same thing but they said it wasn't impossible either. I wanted to save the expense of a liner but it may be necessary. I think it can be made to work and could be a very inexpensive way to get 2k gallons or more of non-pressurized storage. Thanks for your posts!!

Gary