I'm cutting in a tee on copper pipe in the basement. For the quickest way to not have any water in the area of the sweating work, should I open the faucets on the floors above or keep them closed?
Draining pipes for sweating: should I open faucets or keep them closed?
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sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
I'd drain them out as soon as you can. If you leave water above the area you are working a bubble could send water right down into your face.
My suggestion.....
My suggestion.....
johneh
Minister of Fire
I drain both above and below where I am
working and leave the taps open
Gives steam and pressure an escape route
other than the work area
working and leave the taps open
Gives steam and pressure an escape route
other than the work area
vinny11950
Minister of Fire
As Johneh says. Find the two lowest faucets/openings and open them. Find the two highest openings and open them too. Let them drain a little bit and leave them open.
Then get yourself some Wonderbread, roll it up tight into two nice balls about the size of the pipe diameter and push them inside the two sides of the copper pipe. Push it in about an inch into the pipe, past the solder joints if possible. It should be packed tight in there to stop any water from dripping into the joint as you solder it. You want to do this and solder right away, as you don't want to give water time to soak into the bread dam you just created. It will smell like toasted bread as you solder. But it will work.
Once you have it cooled down, cleaned up and ready to turn on the water again, you want to give the bread a big, simple opening to come out of. So run the water to a sink (remove faucet filter if it has one) or a hose spout if you have one. You don't want the bread traveling to the toilet tank valve, or the washing machine, or any other delicate mechanism it will jam up.
I have used this trick several times now with success, especially on the one pipe that would always spit out water no matter how long I let it drain.
I also use the simple blue tank propane torch - the heat is just enough to get the job done. I tried the hotter burning yellow tank torch and quickly ruined the copper pipe I was working on. You can easily over heat copper.
Then get yourself some Wonderbread, roll it up tight into two nice balls about the size of the pipe diameter and push them inside the two sides of the copper pipe. Push it in about an inch into the pipe, past the solder joints if possible. It should be packed tight in there to stop any water from dripping into the joint as you solder it. You want to do this and solder right away, as you don't want to give water time to soak into the bread dam you just created. It will smell like toasted bread as you solder. But it will work.
Once you have it cooled down, cleaned up and ready to turn on the water again, you want to give the bread a big, simple opening to come out of. So run the water to a sink (remove faucet filter if it has one) or a hose spout if you have one. You don't want the bread traveling to the toilet tank valve, or the washing machine, or any other delicate mechanism it will jam up.
I have used this trick several times now with success, especially on the one pipe that would always spit out water no matter how long I let it drain.
I also use the simple blue tank propane torch - the heat is just enough to get the job done. I tried the hotter burning yellow tank torch and quickly ruined the copper pipe I was working on. You can easily over heat copper.
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heat seeker
Minister of Fire
Mechanical fittings like the Shark version are the way to go. Draining pipes can be incredibly frustrating, there can be horizontal runs that form air pockets and can take long time to stop dripping. I have had to air purge a system in the past. The bread method works but it can take quite awhile to flush out the bread crumbs.
I have used a shop vac in the past to suck the water out as well as compressed air. In this case, I could use compressed air to blow out one line but the other one probably not. I've seen some pills that look like fish oil pills at the hardware store. Not sure how well they work. Luckily the wife's away while I play.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
The pills are just a commercial version of the Wonder bread trick. In fact, they're usually called "plumbers bread".
I always try without bread first, and usually have no issue, but have resorted to the bread trick when needed. There is always some risk of that bread going somewhere you don't want it, when repressurizing the system.
Shark fittings, and other similar crap, are for amateurs.
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I always try without bread first, and usually have no issue, but have resorted to the bread trick when needed. There is always some risk of that bread going somewhere you don't want it, when repressurizing the system.
Shark fittings, and other similar crap, are for amateurs.
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maple1
Minister of Fire
I disagree that shark bites are crap, Mr. Pro.
I will admit to being skeptical of them at first, but they have saved me a lot of time, trouble & grief in a couple of situations that sound much like the OP has. Plus they can join copper with Pex - with no torch or crimping.
I'm not sure I am confident enough in them yet to bury them in a wall - likely wouldn't do that still. But I'm not comfy doing that to Pex yet either.
I will admit to being skeptical of them at first, but they have saved me a lot of time, trouble & grief in a couple of situations that sound much like the OP has. Plus they can join copper with Pex - with no torch or crimping.
I'm not sure I am confident enough in them yet to bury them in a wall - likely wouldn't do that still. But I'm not comfy doing that to Pex yet either.
vinny11950
Minister of Fire
I too was skeptical of shark bites at first, but then used one when I couldn't get a solder joint to stop leaking. I still keep a few for emergencies.
But once I learned to solder properly (lots of trial and error), there is nothing more beautiful and dependable as a properly soldered joint.
I even soldered two waste valves in the basement, at the lowest points, just to be able to drain the system to solder more easily.
But once I learned to solder properly (lots of trial and error), there is nothing more beautiful and dependable as a properly soldered joint.
I even soldered two waste valves in the basement, at the lowest points, just to be able to drain the system to solder more easily.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
No comment necessary.
This. Learn to solder, it ain't that hard, esp. With YouTube, etc. I think I learned to sweat copper fittings before I learned to ride a bicycle, but we owned a plumbing business for three generations, and I was playing plumber's helper from age 4.
i have a 3ft crawlspace with limited access. as i was replacing some copper with pex, i saw how ingenious the plumber who installed the copper had to be: multiple burn marks on structure,and gobs of solder he somehow put onto multiple 90 bends AND blind solder joints while working overhead. flexible pex combined with crimps and a couple sharkbite made my work possible.
The last pumber I hired refused to solder a final connection and used a sharkbit fitting. His rationale was that in his experience, he would likely have to fight air bubbles for an additional hour before getting a solder to seal.
pex has been in almost every new house for the past 20+ years and seems to have a good track record.
The last pumber I hired refused to solder a final connection and used a sharkbit fitting. His rationale was that in his experience, he would likely have to fight air bubbles for an additional hour before getting a solder to seal.
pex has been in almost every new house for the past 20+ years and seems to have a good track record.
Job complete.
I connected my compressor to a bib valve in the basement and blew out EVERY cold water line until only vapor was coming out. Well, every line except the toilets and the washing machine which I valved off. Worked like a charm. Took a while, and a bunch of black stuff came out of the faucets, but lines were dry when I opened them up with the pipe cutter.
BTW, I cut in an untreated line to the cold water faucet in kitchen island. I put in two valves so it can be switched back. My wife was complaining about the softened water for the house plants in winter. Our water isn't really hard at all, but maybe I'll get some brownie points. Doubtful though.
I connected my compressor to a bib valve in the basement and blew out EVERY cold water line until only vapor was coming out. Well, every line except the toilets and the washing machine which I valved off. Worked like a charm. Took a while, and a bunch of black stuff came out of the faucets, but lines were dry when I opened them up with the pipe cutter.
BTW, I cut in an untreated line to the cold water faucet in kitchen island. I put in two valves so it can be switched back. My wife was complaining about the softened water for the house plants in winter. Our water isn't really hard at all, but maybe I'll get some brownie points. Doubtful though.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Warning, brownie points expire in 6 hours or less. Redeem immediately.
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sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
They aren't crap if they work....and they work very well.
Most new construction uses the barbed sharkbite fittings...and quick connects.
Open everything in the loop go have a beer or two then stuff some of the whitest cheapest bread you can find in there. I then suggest if possible to turn on a faucet that does not have a screen in it the bread will be gone in a couple seconds.
It would bother me using a fitting that was not sweat on if everything in my house was. Not anything against other fittings but it would not match. That would piss me off every time I looked at it.
It would bother me using a fitting that was not sweat on if everything in my house was. Not anything against other fittings but it would not match. That would piss me off every time I looked at it.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Given the horrendous quality of most new construction, that is not much of an endorsement. I'm not saying they can't work, but I will say no other system has a record of trouble-free operation anywhere near soldered copper fittings. Why even consider anything else, when sweating copper is so easy?
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