Drolet Myriad or Englander / Summers Heat NC 30 or ???

[WATYF]

Hi there. I'm looking to replace my current wood stove, which is inefficient (full load only lasts a couple hours) and old (early 80's I think) and has what I believe is a sizable crack in a seam at the back of the stove.

My house is a ~1200 sq. ft. Ranch and the stove room is at the far back right side of the house. The stove itself sits at the far back right side of the stove room. So basically, the stove is all the way at the far back right end of the house. I can heat my whole upstairs with it, but in order to do so, the stove room gets unbearably hot while the rest of the house ends up in the 70's.

The features I'm looking for a things like a long burn per load, easy disposal of ash (my current stove has no ash drawer and I have to wait for it to die down and spend a half hour trying to scoop it all out), more controlled heat dispersal (so it's not so ridiculously hot in just that one room), and efficiency (less wood used).

I was looking at a few models in my price range (under 1000) and came across two potentials. The Drolet Myriad and the Englander 30-NC/Summers Heat SNC30. I was originally looking at the Englander 13-NC, which is closer rated to the size of my house, but it's a good bit smaller than what I have now, and most of the reviews I read said that the ash tray was too small the be usable.

The Myriad and 30NC are about the same size (overall dimension and firebox) but the 30NC has a slightly higher BTU rating. The Myriad, however, comes with a blower motor included, and this could help with my problem of the stove room being so much hotter than the rest of the house. The 30NC looks to be $300 more online, but from what I've read, they're a couple hundred cheaper if you go into Home Depot/Lowes and get them, so I'm guessing that both models are in the same price range.

One thing I haven't been able to find out about any of these stoves is the efficiency ratings. Many manufacturers list this rating on their website, but I couldn't find it for either Drolet or Englander. Does anyone know where I can find that info?

Any input on these models would be much appreciated and if there are any other comparable models in this price range, please let me know. Thanks.


WATYF

 

[begreen]

It does seem oversized for your house, but can be run with a smaller load of wood to tone it down a bit. Have you looked at any 2.5 or 2 cu ft boxes? The Drolet Escape or Eastwood 1800 seems a better fit. A PE Classic will easily give an overnight burn and is also more appropriately sized. The Napoleon 1400 is another stove in this range.

There are lots of happy 30NC owners on this site. Do a search for Englander 30NC and you will find many posts. What price are you seeing the stove for? BrotherBart was the pioneer and has the longest experience with the 30NC. We hear very few if any complaints about the stove and have a couple employees online here.

As noted, it's a big stove and will not help with the overheated stove room, but that's a somewhat separate issue. The best thing you can for that is to either open up the room to the rest of the house by enlarging the doorway or adding a transom or opening to vent some of the heat into the rest of the house. Or put a fan low, blowing toward the stove from the cooler part of the house, into the stove room. That will assist getting a good return air flow to the stove and will help warm up the rest of the house quite a bit.

 

[WATYF]

The price I was looking at was around $750. I can get the Drolet at Northern Tool for that much right now. I don't want to get a stove that's too big (and just increases my overheated stove room issue), so if the 30NC is too much, then I'll go with something else. The Drolet is rated (on their site) as being for 500-2000 sq. ft.

I will look into those other models you mentioned.

WATYF

 

[WATYF]

Btw, all those other models you mentioned are Drolets as well, right? I'm guessing that means you'd recommend that line of stoves?


And is it safe to assume that all of these stoves can function as a cook top? Or is that a feature specific to only a few models?


WATYF

 

[BrotherBart]

Either stove should put out good, reliable heat for you. The Drolet has a very marginally thicker top plate but since it is flat and the 30-NC picks up structural rigidity via the "step-top" that shouldn't be an issue. You are looking for a big ash pan and that just ain't the 30-NC. Ash pan is small and I never use it. Didn't use the big one in my last stove either. Ash removal done first thing in the morning before reloading is a piece of cake. Ya just shove the coals to the back and take out a few scoops of ash. You are going to be scooping out ash a lot less frequently with an EPA stove anyway if you burn it right.

As to price, look at www.overstockstoves.com Their price of $799 includes shipping to a local freight terminal and unless you have a local Drolet dealer you are going to end up with a health freight bill for a Drolet. Probably on the order of $200-$250 truck freight. On that subject the 30-NC weighs 455 pounds and the Drolet 381 pounds. Gotta be something more in the 30 than the Myriad to make that kind of difference in weight. You can get a blower directly from ESW for $160. With any luck overstockstoves may sell you one and ship it inside the stove. I don't know.

I like the 30-NC. I bought it based on the fact that it was the largest firebox EPA stove that would fit into my fireplace and the additional fact that England's Stove Works has been making some really good stoves for a long time. My first one had a problem that QA should have caught before it left the plant but the folks at ESW replaced the stove no questions asked other than "How do you want us to get it there?". As with any freight shipment examine the stove completely before signing the delivery receipt. Including taking out the bricks and checking inside the firebox no matter what stove you buy.

Heat dispersal is going to be a problem in that house no matter what stove you buy. With the 30 if you have the blower and can install the stove where the air from it is aimed at a doorway to the rest of the house that will help a lot. No matter what stove or setup you have it is going to get hot in the room the stove is in if you are trying to heat a whole house. I heat a 2,500 sq. ft. center hall colonial with our stove.

Any question about the 30-NC just post here or PM me.

 

[Hogwildz]

Either stove should put out good, reliable heat for you. The Drolet has a very marginally thicker top plate but since it is flat and the 30-NC picks up structural rigidity via the "step-top" that shouldn't be an issue. You are looking for a big ash pan and that just ain't the 30-NC. Ash pan is small and I never use it. Didn't use the big one in my last stove either. Ash removal done first thing in the morning before reloading is a piece of cake. Ya just shove the coals to the back and take out a few scoops of ash. You are going to be scooping out ash a lot less frequently with an EPA stove anyway if you burn it right.

As to price, look at www.overstockstoves.com Their price of $799 includes shipping to a local freight terminal and unless you have a local Drolet dealer you are going to end up with a health freight bill for a Drolet. Probably on the order of $200-$250 truck freight. On that subject the 30-NC weighs 455 pounds and the Drolet 381 pounds. Gotta be something more in the 30 than the Myriad to make that kind of difference in weight. You can get a blower directly from ESW for $160. With any luck overstockstoves may sell you one and ship it inside the stove. I don't know.

I like the 30-NC. I bought it based on the fact that it was the largest firebox EPA stove that would fit into my fireplace and the additional fact that England's Stove Works has been making some really good stoves for a long time. My first one had a problem that QA should have caught before it left the plant but the folks at ESW replaced the stove no questions asked other than "How do you want us to get it there?". As with any freight shipment examine the stove completely before signing the delivery receipt. Including taking out the bricks and checking inside the firebox no matter what stove you buy.

Heat dispersal is going to be a problem in that house no matter what stove you buy. With the 30 if you have the blower and can install the stove where the air from it is aimed at a doorway to the rest of the house that will help a lot. No matter what stove or setup you have it is going to get hot in the room the stove is in if you are trying to heat a whole house. I heat a 2,500 sq. ft. center hall colonial with our stove.

Any question about the 30-NC just post here or PM me.

How many times does it take to paint a 30?

 

[WATYF]

Either stove should put out good, reliable heat for you. The Drolet has a very marginally thicker top plate but since it is flat and the 30-NC picks up structural rigidity via the "step-top" that shouldn't be an issue. You are looking for a big ash pan and that just ain't the 30-NC. Ash pan is small and I never use it. Didn't use the big one in my last stove either. Ash removal done first thing in the morning before reloading is a piece of cake. Ya just shove the coals to the back and take out a few scoops of ash. You are going to be scooping out ash a lot less frequently with an EPA stove anyway if you burn it right.

Well if I forgo the ash pan requirement, then that means I could look at the 13-NC (which is cheaper). But is that stove enough to heat my house? It's a few inches smaller on every dimension compared to my current stove. And is it better to get a stove that's a little more than necessary than to end up with a stove that can't heat the whole place?

Here's a (not-to-scale) rough layout of my house that I did from memory. Let me know what you think.

WATYF

 

[begreen]

I think the 13NC or a PE Spectrum would easily heat the house. The issue is not the size, it's getting the heat distributed. A bigger stove isn't going to help with this. The floor layout and hearth location is not conducive to even heating with an area heater.

But you need to work with what you've got, so that means some creative fan work probably. The bedrooms will likely always be cooler. For a start, I would try a box fan, placed on the LR floor pointing towards the hearth. It looks like a nice circulation loop can be established from the hearth room, through the kitchen, then to the living room, and back to the hearth room.

 

[WATYF]

So you think I should put a fan on the RH side of the dining room pointed INTO the hearth room? I was gonna put a fan on the hearth pointed straight out into the dining room.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I would try to draw the heat through the kitchen if possible- at least that way it may get to the hall (is there a door that can be closed from the kitchen to the livingroom?)

 

[WATYF]

There are no doors from the hearth room... both openings (the larger on the left and the smaller on the right) are simply that... "openings". One (RH) leads to the door to the garage, the other (obviously) leads to the kitchen.

Actually, that second opening on the RH was just added (I just put a garage on). So now there's more openings from the hearth room than there used to be. I'm not sure how this will affect the circulation of heat. I will find out this winter, of course.

WATYF

 

[Adios Pantalones]

No- I meant from the kitchen into the livingroom, but it looks like an opening, not a door. If you could close that off, then you would have a loop from the hearth room, into kitchen, into hall, into livingroom, and back to the hearth room.

 

[begreen]

So you think I should put a fan on the RH side of the dining room pointed INTO the hearth room? I was gonna put a fan on the hearth pointed straight out into the dining room.

Yes, it is usually more efficient to blow cold air towards the stove. It might seem counterintuitive, but try it, it works. Doing so will create a natural convection loop through the kitchen, into the hallway and back through the livingroom.

 

[WATYF]

No- I meant from the kitchen into the livingroom, but it looks like an opening, not a door. If you could close that off, then you would have a loop from the hearth room, into kitchen, into hall, into livingroom, and back to the hearth room.

oh, I see what you're saying. No, that's a big opening too. No way to close it off really.

I think I understand what BeGreen is suggesting... get a fan on the RH blowing into the hearth room and a fan on the LH blowing out of the hearth room to create a "cycle". I can probably do that. I just want to find some low-energy consuming fans. And I need to remember to do it BEFORE the winter... geez... every winter I do the same thing. I heat the room up and then realize (again) that I need to buy a big fan, then I go try to buy one, but no one carries them at that time of the year since they're more of a "summer" item.

WATYF

 

[begreen]

15-18" box fans are usually very cheap at the end of the summer when things start to cool down. We got ours at a yard sale for a buck. But a 12" (round) table fan will work too. Run the fan on low to keep the power consumption and noise down. It should be placed low (on the floor is good) and doesn't have to be right in the doorway connecting the two rooms as long as it is pointed towards the hearth.

 

[WATYF]

I think the 13NC or a PE Spectrum would easily heat the house. The issue is not the size, it's getting the heat distributed. A bigger stove isn't going to help with this. The floor layout and hearth location is not conducive to even heating with an area heater.

But you need to work with what you've got, so that means some creative fan work probably. The bedrooms will likely always be cooler. For a start, I would try a box fan, placed on the LR floor pointing towards the hearth. It looks like a nice circulation loop can be established from the hearth room, through the kitchen, then to the living room, and back to the hearth room.

Do you know where I can see some prices for the PE Spectrum (I'm assuming you're talking about a Pacific Energy Spectrum Classic)? The only place I found lists them for $1000 MORE than the 13-NC.

WATYF

 

[begreen]

Yes, that sounds about correct though I should have said the PE Super27 which is about $1350. For value it's hard to match the Englander.

 

[WATYF]

OK. I'm trying to keep it under $1000. Btw, the Drolet Myriad is rated between 500 and 2000 sq. ft. (and I can get one for around 900 shipped)... but how would you control the heat level? If I can figure that out, I could keep that one on the table as an option.


WATYF

 

[begreen]

I suggested the PE because I'm certain it will give an overnight fire. Can't speak too much for the Drolet as far a burning, but would consider a smaller Drolet with a 2 or 2.5 cu ft box and save some more money. As already noted, we have seen a good track record for the Englander 30NC, but it is a very big heater. FWIW I see you can get a 13NC for $649 at AceHardwareOutlet.com.

How well insulated and sealed up is the house? What is the current stove that is in there?

 

[BrotherBart]

Anywhere you buy a new Spectrum it is going to cost a grand more than a 13-NC.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

personally i believe the 13 with the blower would handle the home provided its at least reasonably insulated if well insulated it would easily do so. as for the 30,Corie put a 30 into his house when he first moved in and had to pull it and go to the 13 as the 30 was just too much stove for his house in this climate. i think his house is about yours' size give or take but climate and insulation could be a factor. as for performance , dont let the 13's size fool ya , its a serious heater. though i do feel that it should have a bigger ash drawer and am working on seeing what we can do with that in the future (unfortunately the larger drawer (if produced, would not retro into existing units due to their design)) personally , i find ash drawers a PITA anyway but thats me. as stated bang for the buck (or BTU for the buck) we're hard to top but drolet makes a good line as well , couldnt say anything bad about em (and wouldnt anyway as they are quite reputable and i dont have to bash other stove lines to sell mine) i really kind hesitate recommending a 3+ CF firebox unit for a house less than 1500-1800 SQ FT as going too big and choking doesnt produce as desirable results as well as can bring about dirtier burns and sooty chimneys in any type of stove. so i'd say the 13 unless the ash pan issue is a real important deal for you , in which case i'd look into a stove with a larger one , but it would have to be a EPA rated reburn unit or i wouldnt touch it , and i'd stay under about 2.5 CF firebox. as always , thanks for showing an interest in our product line ,as you can see we are quite proud of em, i would hope (obviously)you will find our 13 is the stove for you , but above all i want you in a stove that you will like and be comfortable with. also , the comments posted by my learned collegues about circulation currents are correct think about a ducted system , hot air ducts and cold air returns, adding a cold air mover (a fan pointed at the stove ) near the floor will very much increase your ability to move air around the house better making for more even heat. your layout is not as bad as you might think, pushing air into the room will force hot air out over the top and not only in the doorway with the fan but in all directions where exits are available. if you wish to learn more about this effect pm me with any questions you might have. or if you want specifics on my product line as well, my PM box is always open. or contact our service department i have a good staff on duty during normal buisness hours as well.

 

[begreen]

Good advice Mike. Now we gotta get your Enter key fixed.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Good advice Mike. Now we gotta get your Enter key fixed.

im a much better technician than i am a typist,

but im working on it.

 

[WATYF]

How well insulated and sealed up is the house? What is the current stove that is in there?

I don't think it's very well insulated. The windows definitely suck. They're old, plain, steel windows. I had someone blow insulation into the attic this past winter, but I don't know how much good that did. Don't think the walls are insulated. I bought the house only a few years ago. I'm still working on it.

The current stove has a big "Lavec" molded onto the sides, but I can't find a model number. The firebox is ~2.5 cu. ft.

When the weather is cold, if I run it a lot, I can get the house up to about 70, but the hearth room is a lot hotter, obviously. My only concern is that a smaller firebox won't heat the hearth room up enough so that it "spills over" out into the house to heat the rest of it up. I'd also like a bigger (at least "as big") firebox so I can fill it up and have it last all night and all day while I'm at work.


btw Mike, what's the efficiency rating on the 13 and 30 models?

WATYF

 

[WATYF]

It looks like the Drolet Myriad has some kind of air control system on it to adjust the temperature that you want (I think). That may be the way to go, instead of hoping that I get a stove that is enough/not too much for my house. See page 21 of (broken link removed to http://www.drolet.ca/forcedownload.aspx?strFile=images/poeles/manuel_en/1457101612008162.pdf). Unless I'm reading that wrong.


WATYF