Dutchwest 2460

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jsahara24

Member
Feb 21, 2014
20
Kutztown, PA
Hello! I just bought a new farmhouse and last night I had my first fire in the existing Dutchwest 2460! The stove hasn't been used for several years as the people we bought from were into their 80s and unable to cut firewood.

First I went up on the roof and inspected the stove pipe, everything looked pretty clean, no evidence of creosote or any animal nests, etc. Then I started a small fire with some scrap 2x4s to make sure everything was in good working order before I really fire it up. Fire started well, good draft, no issues. Then once the temperature of the stove got hot there was a strange smell. Not really smoke, my wife described it as "chemically". I was thinking it kinda smelled like mouse/bird feces burning up, but its hard to say.

We opened the doors/windows and aired out the house, and I threw a few more pieces of wood on. Again once the stove got hot the smell came back. I let it die out and started doing some research. I realize I am not giving much information to work off of, but looking for some guidance from more "seasoned" wood burners.

I also don't know if it has something to do with the cat in the stove, I haven't used a stove with one. My understanding is once the temp of the stove gets up around 400* you close off the damper and the smoke works through the cat and burns the smoke. The stove wasn't hot enough to close the damper, so it was just run with it open.

Couple pictures of the setup attached. Any advise is welcomed! Thanks...

IMG_20210225_100013002.jpg IMG_20210225_100022680.jpg
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,924
Long Island NY
Is there dust between the outer shield and the stove top? Did you check that no (plastic) pieces may be stuck someplace on the outside?

Was the stove ever used (if not paint might cure when it gets hot, and give off a chemical smell).
 

jsahara24

Member
Feb 21, 2014
20
Kutztown, PA
Just inspected the stove a bit, I don't see any buildup of dust. I don't see any plastic stuck, I did notice that the stove pipe connection to the stove adapter has what appears to be some clear silicone along with some cement that is flaking off. Not sure if that could cause it. I just started another fire, want to see if the smells comes back again. I will report back shortly.

Yes, the stove was used for many years and then not used for the past 5 years approximately...

Thanks for the help...
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,924
Long Island NY
Just inspected the stove a bit, I don't see any buildup of dust. I don't see any plastic stuck, I did notice that the stove pipe connection to the stove adapter has what appears to be some clear silicone along with some cement that is flaking off. Not sure if that could cause it. I just started another fire, want to see if the smells comes back again. I will report back shortly.

Yes, the stove was used for many years and then not used for the past 5 years approximately...

Thanks for the help...

The stove pipe and adapter connections should not need sealing (b/c draft should suck air in there, and it should be tight enough to not suck in too much). Moreover, for a (hot) woodstove, I'm not sure silicone sealant is appropriate (for cooler flue gases of pellet stoves I have heard it used).
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,924
Long Island NY
I cannot identify the stuff at that seam, but it should not be necessary. Are there (3) screws holding things in place?

Also, is it possible to use a funnel to see if the smell comes from that location rather than from elsewhere (if it re-appears)?
 

jsahara24

Member
Feb 21, 2014
20
Kutztown, PA
The smell is appearing again, but doesn't seem to be as strong as last night...I also have the windows open so that may be helping......I tried to smell around the stove to pinpoint the location and I'm not having any luck.....

Considering that joint shouldn't need to be sealed, I think I'm going to peel off the "silicone" and see if that changes anything....In the picture the dark stuff is cement, the light is silicone to the best of my knowledge....
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,924
Long Island NY
The smell is appearing again, but doesn't seem to be as strong as last night...I also have the windows open so that may be helping......I tried to smell around the stove to pinpoint the location and I'm not having any luck.....

Considering that joint shouldn't need to be sealed, I think I'm going to peel off the "silicone" and see if that changes anything....In the picture the dark stuff is cement, the light is silicone to the best of my knowledge....

Given that we don't know how big gaps there are, try to leave the cement there for now when you peel off the silicone.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
90,531
South Puget Sound, WA
Silicone definitely does not belong on a flue collar. Clean it all off. If the gap is >1/8" stuff it with some flat fiberglass gasket material. If > 1/4" use stove door rope gasket.
 
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jsahara24

Member
Feb 21, 2014
20
Kutztown, PA
The smell seems to be dissipating now that its been burning for ~4 hours. I am starting to think it was just burning off everything that has accumulated on/in it over the past 5 years. I will keep it going and continue to report back.

Thanks for all the advise, I peeled off as much of the silicone as I could get but its pretty hot right now...
 
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stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,924
Long Island NY
The smell seems to be dissipating now that its been burning for ~4 hours. I am starting to think it was just burning off everything that has accumulated on/in it over the past 5 years. I will keep it going and continue to report back.

Thanks for all the advise, I peeled off as much of the silicone as I could get but its pretty hot right now...


Good news. I also have thought that maybe I need to wipe down the stove before the first fire of the season. Hot dust does not smell good.

Please do keep an eye on that seam. And pull it apart if you ar concerned (and for sure at the end of the season).
 

Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
12,277
Southern IN
The smell seems to be dissipating now that its been burning for ~4 hours. I am starting to think it was just burning off everything that has accumulated on/in it over the past 5 years.
Yes, burning dust has a peculiar smell, and can be noticeable when firing up the stove for the first time in the fall, just from sitting over the summer. Five years of dust buildup is going to smell for a while before it all burns off.
Pick a bit of that silicone/furnace cement out of the way, and see how much of a gap there actually is. I don't seal my flue collar connections; I rear-vent both the Keystone and the 2460 into a tee, and the tee snout fits fairly snugly into both collars. As begreen said, gasket material will work for larger gaps, but I doubt you have that much.
There's a lot of rust around the flue collar; Could be from summer condensation of warm, humid air in the cooler pipe and stove, if they ran AC in the summer. I cap the top of my liner in summer, and I think it does reduce condensation.
Actually, condensation may have rusted out one of the two screws that hold the flue collar to the stove; It appears that the head is gone from the one that's visible in the pic. :eek: Does the screw on the opposite side still have a head on it?
There is a gasket under the flue collar that seals between it and the stove body. I always use OEM gaskets, that way you are assured that you have the correct density and material that the stove maker wants in there. Search "dutchwest 2460 gaskets," and all the usual suspects come up; woodmanspartsplus, stove-parts-unlimited, cozycabin, hechlers, blackswanhome and so on.
Have you got the manual for the stove? Lots of good info there.
Were you able to determine if the cat is working? Once the stove is up to temp as indicated on the cat probe thermometer in the stove top, close the bypass. If your wood is dry (two or three years split and stacked in the wind, depending on wood species) the cat should light, and the probe should go up to around 1000. You could probably use a new cat probe..the tip rusts out over several years. The tip should be within 1//2-3/4" above the face of the cat.
When the cat is burning well, you can get low in front of the stove and look up through the glass and the cast iron flame baffle that protects the cat from direct flame, and see it glowing orange.
 

jsahara24

Member
Feb 21, 2014
20
Kutztown, PA
Thanks everyone for your thoughts, it is very helpful....

So yesterday the temps got into the 40s outside so I wasn't running the stove very hard.....didn't notice much of any smell, once the sun went down and temps dropped, I fired the stove up and got it pretty hot....and the smell came back, definitely not as strong as the first night but it was there....opened the windows and let it die out.....

This morning I fired it up again and got it hot, smell is back again.....i wish I could explain the smell better, peculiar is pretty appropriate...

I did peel off the silicone, I didn't notice a space I could see through.....I will definitely need to look into that connection and will probably take it apart and make sure all is well...but no smoke or anything appears to be leaking out......

As for the flue collar, I did notice the one screw sheared off....the other one is still in tact, I will weld a nut to it when I take the flue apart and get it replaced.....I did download the manual, read the whole thing, lots of good information.....

I have been closing the damper to activate the cat when the temp gets up to 400-500*. I am not sure if it is working though, the baffle doesn't appear to be glowing and the temp gauge on top of the stove is going up to ~800*..... one thing I noticed is they have 2 nails set in the damper that keep it from closing all the way....not sure what's up with that......
 

Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
12,277
Southern IN
I have been closing the damper to activate the cat when the temp gets up to 400-500*. I am not sure if it is working though, the baffle doesn't appear to be glowing and the temp gauge on top of the stove is going up to ~800*..... one thing I noticed is they have 2 nails set in the damper that keep it from closing all the way....not sure what's up with that......
If you are getting 800 on the cat probe, that would indicate the cat is working, at least to some degree.
You don't want to have that much flame blazing, to where the cast iron baffle itself would glow. The cat is what you can sometimes see glowing, visible through the holes in the baffle. It can be hard to see. Your head has to be low, so that you are looking almost straight up through the glass. Even then, you may have to move your head around to be able to get the right viewing angle through holes in the baffle. It's easier to see when the cat is glowing brightly. Now, the cat can still be burning smoke even if it's not glowing. Looking at what's coming out of the chimney is the way to tell for sure. If the cat is burning, you won't see smoke..but on a new load after the bypass is closed you may still see white, wispy steam which will dissipate within a short distance (if it's not too humid out.)
The two nails you mentioned in the "damper," are you referring to the primary air control with the two flaps on the lever, or the bypass door which routes the exhaust either to the flue exit or to the baffle/cat?
Can you post a pic of the nails? Might give us a better idea of what they were thinking..
 
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jsahara24

Member
Feb 21, 2014
20
Kutztown, PA
Understood, I will look a little better next time I have the stove running hot. I got the room temp up to 77* this morning, so I let it die out so I don't heat myself out of the house! haha...

Here is a pic of the nails, looks like they are just laid in there to let some air out? Not sure what's up with that...

Thanks..
 

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Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
12,277
Southern IN
Strange. Have you had the top off yet, to have a look at the cat, refractory, etc? That bypass door should close all the way so that it routes all of the smoke through the cat. It has a gasket to seal it well when you close it. When the mechanism is adjusted properly, the bypass door/gasket is held shut by a camming action.
I wonder if they didn't know that you have to GENTLY blow the fly ash out of the cat from time to time, it got plugged to the point where the stove wouldn't draw with the bypass closed, and they inserted the nails? If you notice that the cat is getting harder to light off, it may just need to be cleaned off.
Don't use strong compressed air to blow the ash out of the cat, or the catalyst coating might be damaged. Taking a big breath and blowing it out manually is probably the safest, but I use a compressor, holding the nozzle well away from the cat.
You'll need some interam gasket to seal around the cat when you reinstall it; The old gasket will crumble apart when you remove the cat, it's not reusable. I buy bulk gasket many feet at a time, then I've got some on hand when I need it. A local stove shop may stock it, but it may be cheaper online. I think I paid a couple bucks per foot last time I got some.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
90,531
South Puget Sound, WA
Here is a pic of the nails, looks like they are just laid in there to let some air out? Not sure what's up with that...
That's an odd one. Maybe the turbulator or cat was plugged and the stove was spilling smoke. They certainly don't belong there in a properly running stove.
 

Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
12,277
Southern IN
That's an odd one. Maybe the turbulator or cat was plugged and the stove was spilling smoke. They certainly don't belong there in a properly running stove.
I have seen the 'turbulator' (baffle) on my SIL's stove restricted by a hard material..minerals/rust? In her case, it was still able to pass enough air to run the stove with the baffle closed. I just bought a new baffle for her stove..they weren't real pricey. Took some work to get the nuts loose, though. _g
 

jsahara24

Member
Feb 21, 2014
20
Kutztown, PA
Thanks for all the information, much appreciated.

I have been using the stove every day since I started this thread, thankfully I have not had the "smell" come back since my last post mentioning it. So I believe it was just accumulated dust/etc that burned off since the last time it was used 5+ years ago.

As for getting the stove in good working order, once this heating season ends I am going to remove the top of the stove so I can inspect/clean the cat as necessary. I got the silicone off the flue pipe connection, but its probably worth taking that apart and replacing the sheared off bolt and fixing anything else that needs it. And I'll clean the chimney pipe so next fall I will be ready to go!

I have about 2 cords of wood cut, split and stacked since last winter, and another 2 cords bucked into rounds ready to be split. Only downside is all my firewood is at my in-laws farm (2 miles away) and I need to transport it to my new farm but such is life I suppose. There is an outbuilding here they used for farm animals, that has a roof and wood siding with a few inch gap between each board. So I'm thinking about storing my firewood in there since the wind will be able to hit it, I am just concerned that the sun won't be able to hit it. Maybe not a big deal if it isn't getting rained on? Not sure....Just want to make sure the wood is good and dry..

I will report back with my findings in a month or so.

Thanks everyone!
Jason
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,924
Long Island NY
Sounds good! Glad the smell is gone.

Regarding the shed, there is a thread on here where people show (off/...) their woodshed. Your description of the outbuilding sounds perfectly fine to me. If there is no floor, get some pallets to keep the wood off the ground. (Though be careful about them decaying and you stepping in nails.)
 

Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
12,277
Southern IN
As for getting the stove in good working order, once this heating season ends I am going to remove the top of the stove so I can inspect/clean the cat as necessary. I got the silicone off the flue pipe connection, but its probably worth taking that apart and replacing the sheared off bolt and fixing anything else that needs it. And I'll clean the chimney pipe so next fall I will be ready to go!
I have about 2 cords of wood cut, split and stacked since last winter, and another 2 cords bucked into rounds ready to be split. Only downside is all my firewood is at my in-laws farm (2 miles away) and I need to transport it to my new farm but such is life I suppose. There is an outbuilding here they used for farm animals, that has a roof and wood siding with a few inch gap between each board. So I'm thinking about storing my firewood in there since the wind will be able to hit it, I am just concerned that the sun won't be able to hit it. Maybe not a big deal if it isn't getting rained on? Not sure....Just want to make sure the wood is good and dry..
Yeah, if there was a lot of condensation over a period of years, the connector pipe could be rusted thinner, so check that when you have the flue collar off.
I would just grab the OEM gasket set, plus some bulk interam gasket, from one of those suppliers; they are probably due to be changed. Just bite the bullet and do it this summer, you'll be all set for a while. Easy way to clean old glue from some of the gasket channels is with an angle grinder and wire wheel. Don't pull and stretch the gaskets when you put them in, just lay them into the glue and tamp them down with your fingers. Don't use too much glue to where it oozes out from underneath the gasket.
I'd be inclined to get some interam gasket locally, and take the cat out and dust it. Be easy handling it, it might be crumbled but will still work if it remains intact. I never tried it, but it's conceivable that you could dust the cat without removing it. Take off the stove top, lift off the refractory (easy, there, it's delicate) and then gently blow down through the cat with your mouth, with a shop vac hose stuck in the door to capture the dust. Then remove those nails from the bypass and hopefully the bypass door gasket will still seal, to where you can shut it all the way and see how well the cat is really working. If it glows readily and probe temp rises fairly rapidly, keep riding that cat for a while. I like to have a spare cat in stock, too. You can get the stock OEM ceramic from Applied Ceramics/firecatcombustors, or you can try a steel cat from Woodstock Soapstone that they make for some of their old stoves, which happens to also be a 6x2".
Hopefully, the furnace cement in the panel seams is still in good shape, and you have a tight stove with good air control.
Any idea when they bought the stove? Receipt with the manual, maybe? Could be a mfr. date on the metal tag on the back of the stove, but mine only had a number/letter code that I had to track down online.
The stove is nothing fancy, but I've always liked mine, and kept it around for backup since we have no other heat. One plus for me is that the rear flue exit is the same height as the Keystone, so swapping stoves is easy.
The Dutchwest got me hooked on the grated ash-handling, and I went for that feature again with the Keystone..that and the big window.
You can get a blower, if you need to pull more heat off the stove faster. It's a bit noisy, though.
That wood shed sounds ideal. Air movement is the main thing in drying wood, although sun doesn't hurt. Two years split, stacked and covered with some breeze should be decent for drying most species, but Oak can be reluctant to give up its moisture. Three years is a pretty safe bet with that stuff.
 
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