Kuma model to replace Dutchwest

[janice_m14]

I've appreciated all of the advice on this forum, and now I'm looking for some specific thoughts. We bought a house that came with a Vermont Castings Dutchwest 2478 that needs replacing. We used the stove for a year, but we've been told it's reached its end of life. Plus we're doing some other repairs (chimney liner etc), so now is the right time to replace it.

Our stove is and will be in the basement of our typical ranch house built in 2007. We seem to have decent insulation. Each floor of the house is 1500 sq ft. Especially with a floor vent and the basement door open, the Dutchwest did a good job of heating things up--sometimes too good of a job, in that I'd close the bedroom door and/or open the bedroom window so we weren't too hot for sleeping. (We were utter newbies to wood stoves, but I'm pretty sure we never overfired it since we used a stovetop thermometer, and nothing ever glowed.)

We've done a ton of research and have settled on getting Kuma for our new stove. So we're just deciding between the Aspen and Ashwood models. Square footage-wise, the Ashwood makes more sense, but as far as I understand, the Dutchwest was a 40k BTU stove, and it was more than adequate.

At first, the sales guy recommended the Ashwood based on square footage alone. But once we told him about our experience with the Dutchwest and he saw our setup and basement insulation, he thinks the Aspen will make more sense. We even followed up and told him we were leaning toward changing our order to the Ashwood, and he still recommended the Aspen. (We have to at least appreciate he's not trying to upsell unnecessarily.)

We just don't want to go too small. (I've definitely read out here how you can burn smaller/cooler in a too-large stove, but you can't do anything about a too-small stove.) But we also don't want to get something that's too large, that we'll essentially be planning to run cool. We also like that the Ashwood takes 18" logs, while the Aspen only takes 16".

I'd love to hear the thoughts of the more experienced folks here.

 

[begreen]

Both will work. One may loaf until it gets below 30 or 20º outside. The other will work harder and need more frequent loading in very cold weather.

 

[janice_m14]

Thanks. We're in Vermont. Last winter was pretty mild, but we'll definitely get cold. I've seen posts that say not to use a wood stove until it's pretty cold out (like below 40, maybe 30) because cold temps outside make for better draft. Is that true?

(The guy who will install our stove said he has no concerns about our flue/chimney since it will have decent length after a couple elbows.)

 

[Highbeam]

As a cat stove user I would definitely recommend the larger Kuma. You're trying to decide between a 1.8 CF and a 2.5 CF stove and even the largest one is only rated by Kuma to heat 2800 SF. Even the larger 2.5 Kuma is still really small and 3000 SF is a lot in VT. Honestly, I wish Kuma still made large stoves because they are a well respected company with awesome test results.

I had my hands on and in one last weekend. They are a low/wide stove so don't feel very large. The firebox volume may even include the area above the baffle that is unusable, I don't know, these are not large stoves.

For reference I use a 2.9 cubic foot princess in 1700 SF home in a much more moderate climate. You can turn a good cat stove down to burn at a lower rate.

 

[Wisco Shepherd]

I have the Aspen in my sub 1200 square foot very well insulated home and it works great. Generally I don't need to load it up fully for a 8 hour run until temps get in the teens. Mine seems to be an easy breather so if you have a long flue it may be worth a damper. I don't think you could go wrong either way but if doing a reload at 7 hours vs 9-10 would be a huge deal breaker you could go bigger.

 

[janice_m14]

I have the Aspen in my sub 1200 square foot very well insulated home and it works great. Generally I don't need to load it up fully for a 8 hour run until temps get in the teens. Mine seems to be an easy breather so if you have a long flue it may be worth a damper. I don't think you could go wrong either way but if doing a reload at 7 hours vs 9-10 would be a huge deal breaker you could go bigger.

Thanks - I tried to contact you directly since I saw in another thread that you have an Aspen. (I also happen to be from Wisconsin, but living in Vermont.) Can you describe your setup a little more? Are your 1200 square feet all on one floor with the stove on the same floor?

Since we'll be heating our 1500 square foot main floor from a stove in the unfinished basement of the same size, I just don't want to go too small. (But we also fear we could regret going bigger though since the sales guy seems pretty sure the Aspen will work.)

We both work from home, so reloading isn't a big concern.

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[Wisco Shepherd]

Here's some photos of our place as you can see definitely less square footage than you are working with. Behind the picture of the Interior photo is a bedroom, bathroom and a separate kennel area for the dogs although that door mostly stays shut as they don't like it super warm but we can crack it and get them some heat whenever needed. With how small the square footage is and how well insulated it is I am generally working hard to make sure we don't overheat.

I am just now seeing that you are trying to heat the house from the basement if you are doing that part of me is leaning towards recommending the larger stove although with our current setup I am almost never burning a full load and coasting off of 1/2 or 3/4.

 

[stoveliker]

If you're heating from an uninsulated basement, you'll be loosing about 30% of the heat to the outside.
I'd go bigger.

I heat from the (insulated) basement and get it up to 85 or so to keep the main floor at 71 ish

 

[janice_m14]

If you're heating from an uninsulated basement, you'll be loosing about 30% of the heat to the outside.
I'd go bigger.

I heat from the (insulated) basement and get it up to 85 or so to keep the main floor at 71 ish

Thanks for your input. I honestly have no idea what defines an insulated basement. Two years ago, the listing agent said that it was insulated (but she didn't know a lot of things). And the stove sales guy said we have a good insulation set up, which is part of why he's recommending the smaller stove. We have at least a few weeks to decide. We're already on his calendar for the install, and he said we can change our mind right up to the date.

 

[EbS-P]

When is cold 1.8 cu ft is like a 5-6 hour reload time. Bigger means you don’t have to get up any 2 or 3 am reload.

 

[Highbeam]

3000 sf in Vermont, you want the biggest stove you can get. Plus, it’s much more pleasant to operate a larger stove as far as loading and cleaning. Bigger window too.

Don’t underestimate the dealer just wanting to get rid of or move old stock of tiny stoves. They can have perverse incentives to move stoves through.

 

[bigealta]

For me i would only get something that EASILY takes 18' splits minimum (not crammed in with no play on either side).
Especially if heating all/most of the house with it.

18' splits are far better than 16" splits for cutting and stacking. IMO

So if you are cutting 18" rounds, even if you measure them out you will end up with 19"-17" that's why an advertised MAX size of 20" splits would be a minimum of what i'd consider.

 

[janice_m14]

Here's some photos of our place as you can see definitely less square footage than you are working with. Behind the picture of the Interior photo is a bedroom, bathroom and a separate kennel area for the dogs although that door mostly stays shut as they don't like it super warm but we can crack it and get them some heat whenever needed. With how small the square footage is and how well insulated it is I am generally working hard to make sure we don't overheat.

I am just now seeing that you are trying to heat the house from the basement if you are doing that part of me is leaning towards recommending the larger stove although with our current setup I am almost never burning a full load and coasting off of 1/2 or 3/4.

View attachment 330185 View attachment 330186

Thanks so much for sharing more info and the photos. Your place is amazing, btw.

 

[janice_m14]

For me i would only get something that EASILY takes 18' splits minimum (not crammed in with no play on either side).
Especially if heating all/most of the house with it.

18' splits are far better than 16" splits for cutting and stacking. IMO

So if you are cutting 18" rounds, even if you measure them out you will end up with 19"-17" that's why an advertised MAX size of 20" splits would be a minimum of what i'd consider.

Fair point(s). We have a load of wood from last year that we've measured to be around 17" and we've been thinking how a 16" max stove will be a pain/small. Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[stoveliker]

Thanks for your input. I honestly have no idea what defines an insulated basement. Two years ago, the listing agent said that it was insulated (but she didn't know a lot of things). And the stove sales guy said we have a good insulation set up, which is part of why he's recommending the smaller stove. We have at least a few weeks to decide. We're already on his calendar for the install, and he said we can change our mind right up to the date.

Your home may be insulated well, reducing losses in the living room, but if you can see your concrete or block wall in the basement you have no insulation there. Unless there is insulation on the outside, which is still rather uncommon afaik.


With what high beam said and an uninsulated basement, go big.

 

[stoveliker]

@begreen does a Kuma turn down well?
(Op: because a large stove that can turn down allows you to still have low output if needed, but high output when wanted )

 

[Wisco Shepherd]

Thanks so much for sharing more info and the photos. Your place is amazing, btw.

Thanks we like it a lot

@begreen does a Kuma turn down well?
(Op: because a large stove that can turn down allows you to still have low output if needed, but high output when wanted )

Mine does a pretty good job. Not BK low but low.

 

[begreen]

We were faced with the same choice. A smaller stove would have worked, but it would need to be pushed hard (4hr burn time) to heat the house when temps dropped below 20º. Fortunately, that is not too common here. I tried to buy a 3 cu ft T6 from the local dealer and he flat out refused to sell it to me. Fortunately, Tom Oyen saw it differently and supported the decision to go large. After 15 seasons, I have no regrets. Can it drive us out of the living room? Sure, if I do a couple of full loads with 25% air and it's only 40º outside. But that would be my dumb fault, not the stove's.

The new Kumas are hybrids. Good company and stoves, but they can not go low and slow like a pure catalytic stove ( ie: like the Woodstock Fireview, pre-2020 Kuma Sequoia, or BK Princess). But the operator still has control over the load size, air fed to the fire, and reload frequency if less heat is desired.

 

[Wisco Shepherd]

Good company and stoves, but they can not go low and slow like a pure catalytic stove ( ie: like the Woodstock Fireview, pre-2020 Kuma Sequoia, or BK Princess). But the operator still has control over the load size, air fed to the fire, and reload frequency if less heat is desired.

Agreed with this as well, and I have found that if I want to get really low the best thing is to get it nice and hot first then get it back down and use bigger splits (as long as they are dry). If you try to rush into a low burn things don't seem to run as clean but that is true with most modern stoves.

 

[brenndatomu]

After reading through this thread, the larger stove would be my choice, and its not even close...I've done the "too small stove" thing, and won't go back.

 

[janice_m14]

We got our Kuma! We went with the Ashwood. It's TBD whether the house will get too hot, but it already seems like it will be quite possible to control the temp a bit.

Question though: The installer put our existing stovepipe thermometer on the pipe, just since we had it. He said we could/should rely on the Kuma catalyst gauge, but the stovepipe thermometer should also stay in the burn zone. During the one fire I ran, that didn't ring true. The cat gauge was well into active, but the stovepipe thermometer struggled to stay in the burn zone. (The installer had placed the stovepipe thermometer about 18"+ up, which I think was too high. I tried it down lower, but the temp still stayed low-ish.) We have another stovetop thermometer I might try, but does it even matter? As long as the cat gauge shows active, am I burning clean? Am I needlessly stressing over stovetop/stovepipe temps?

We had an undetected chimney fire last year with our dysfunctional Dutchwest, so I think I'm extra concerned about creosote.

 

[stoveliker]

Is the new stove pipe single wall or double wall?

 

[janice_m14]

Is the new stove pipe single wall or double wall?

Good question - I had to look at the paperwork to confirm. It's single-wall to a new stainless-steel insulated flue lining.

 

[moresnow]

I may have missed this detail but do you have single wall or double wall stovepipe? Generally, your cat gauge should keep you at a good burn rate in my opinion. Cat equipped stoves generally run much cooler exhaust temps also. Give it a week or two and take a peek up the pipe for confirmation. Good luck. Enjoy the new toy.

 

[brenndatomu]

Those magnetic temp gauges are notoriously inaccurate too...