Econoburn 150 question

[greg in MN]

Fired up the 150 yesterday and seemed to work very well. The plumber came back in the afternoon and opened the valves wider to the radiant floor and to check that everything was working. Today I fed it a lot of wood to get 2500 feet of cement warmed up. When the basement warmed up to temperature the radiant pump stopped. With no demand the burner went into idle. The digital temp guage was up to 208 when I went to house and turned up temp in forced air furnace and in radiant to take off heat. The water temp is set at 160. Is it normal to run that high over?

Overnight the fire burned out but the fan was running on high this morning. I called the factory and he mentioned they had a Honeywell hi-low aquastat that with the low setting would turn off fan when fire goes out by a set temperature. Do you call the plumber or the electrician to switch these out? I wish the hi-low would have come with my burner.

Thank you for any help. Greg

 

[sgschwend]

Take a look at this thread, it show two vendors that provide temperature switching, that might be a better option for you since it can be used to monitor the flue gas and or liquid immersion or surface for that matter.

As for overshoot, your boiler has 33 gallons; I know the Greenwood 7.5 gallons can easily overshoot, they recommend a hydrostat on top of the boiler to protect from this problem (not supplied).

I don't know, but I get the feeling that a lot of these boiler do not have a shut down mode, I know mind doesn't and I am adding the flue gas thermostat to do this for me.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/46044/

 

[mtnmizer]

I have an EBW 150 and am on my second season. 200 is the highest temp I've
seen, but have it set to idle at 190. My blower fan will go to high when the temp goes below what ever it's set on
which usually at 155. I put a timer on the blower to aquastat wire to shut it off and can pretty well judge
how long the fire will run and set the timer accordingly. There is an alarm on the boiler that will
go off it it overheats. You do have a power out circuit,? yes ?.

My storage is nearly complete so that will change everything for the
better when it goes on line. Currently using the slab radiant for
storage and it works OK . I get the boiler up to temp in the evening
and then turn the baseboard zone thermostats up to 70. When the firebox
runs low the blower kicks to high and I reload and switch on the radiant and set
the timer and set the base boards down to 65. My gas boiler is set at 135 and takes over
if it gets too cold. I might automate this in time but wanted to control everything
manually at first. When it gets below zero the 150 runs straight to demand..I don't let
it idle if possible just don't fill the firebox too full if it's warmer out.

Not familiar with the aquastat you mentioned. I did my own install under the guidance of
a master plumber and will do my own maintenance if needed if I can. Did your installer
use lots of iso valves?

Happy 150 owner here=== MM

 

[willworkforwood]

Welcome to the forum Greg - always glad to see another new EB owner join in. I'm assuming the 160 that you mentioned is the lower digital number. If so, this is the target set point for the fan to kick into high speed. I don't know exactly how your slab storage is set up, but it sounds like you're not currently able to store the output from a full burn. If that will be the case going forward, then you probably want to adjust your high aquastat down to around 190 as MM mentioned earlier (mine is 190 also). What throws you off at first is that the top digital number is generally 10 degrees higher than the "actual" temp (dial on the side). So if the aquastat is set to 190, the boiler will go into idle at a reading of around 200 on the front. Also, depending on how convenient loading is for you and how your slab works, you could experiment with more frequent, smaller fires. With no storage, we run this way, and almost never idle except for the larger, overnight load. Happy burning and good luck with your new boiler!

 

[wantstoburnwood]

I've installed a 12 hour Intermatic timer on the fan . I set it for my burn time and the circulator keeps on running just in case my fire over shoots the timer. I have had my ebw 150 for just a year with no storage and I am very happy with my system. I really like to compare the smoke coming out of my neighbors chimneys compared with just a bit of steam from mine. Tells us how efficient these boilers are.

 

[greg in MN]

Thank you for he suggestions. My boiler is the first sale for the dealer and was first install for plumber and electrician. They have done OWB before.

Did your installer use lots of iso valves?
The plumber installed iso values on each side of the different pumps for easy changing if problem and also valves for purging in shed and in house.

I don’t know exactly how your slab storage is set up, but it sounds like you’re not currently able to store the output from a full burn.
I had filled the boiler to the door 4 times to get slab up to temp and it was 50 degrees outside. When the slab is warm a lot of heat comes up the open staircase for a long time after the stove is out of wood.

What throws you off at first is that the top digital number is generally 10 degrees higher than the “actual” temp (dial on the side)
My top digital number is closer to 20 degrees over dial on side.

If that will be the case going forward, then you probably want to adjust your high aquastat down to around 190 as MM mentioned earlier (mine is 190 also).
How do you adjust the aquastat to 190? The manual is not very helpful.

Today burning some poorer wood the top digital number went to 170 with the bottom number at 160. In the basement slab the water was going in at 110 and coming out in the low 80's.

Greg

 

[Gooserider]

Thank you for he suggestions. My boiler is the first sale for the dealer and was first install for plumber and electrician. They have done OWB before.

Did your installer use lots of iso valves?
The plumber installed iso values on each side of the different pumps for easy changing if problem and also valves for purging in shed and in house.

I don’t know exactly how your slab storage is set up, but it sounds like you’re not currently able to store the output from a full burn.
I had filled the boiler to the door 4 times to get slab up to temp and it was 50 degrees outside. When the slab is warm a lot of heat comes up the open staircase for a long time after the stove is out of wood.

What throws you off at first is that the top digital number is generally 10 degrees higher than the “actual” temp (dial on the side)
My top digital number is closer to 20 degrees over dial on side.

If that will be the case going forward, then you probably want to adjust your high aquastat down to around 190 as MM mentioned earlier (mine is 190 also).
How do you adjust the aquastat to 190? The manual is not very helpful.

Today burning some poorer wood the top digital number went to 170 with the bottom number at 160. In the basement slab the water was going in at 110 and coming out in the low 80's.

Greg

What do you have for return water temperature protection on the boiler??? What is the temps on the water exiting and especially RETURNING to the boiler??? This is a CRITICAL issue, as failing to maintain adequate return water temps (i.e. above 140 °F minimum, preferably above 160 °F ) will cause your boiler to rapidly self destruct, in a way that is readily identifiable, and which the boiler makers will NOT cover under warranty... If the return water isn't hot enough, the combustion gases will condense into corrosive goo in the lower section of the boiler, especially where the return is, and rust out the HX from the firebox side. One boiler maker (Atmos) says in their literature that inadequate return temps will cut their expected boiler lifespan from 20-30 years to 6-12 MONTHS....

Don't want to be overly alarmist, but given that you said your installers are new to these boilers, it's possible they didn't realize how vital this was and failed to provide a good return protection setup... Want to be sure they got that part right...

Gooserider

 

[mtnmizer]

4 full loads out of a 150 into a 2.5K slab is a lot of btu's, maybe 16hr's of burning?
Your slab well insulated? Wall thermostat or slab sensors? Got some photos/diagrams of your
system. There are some pretty knowledgeable folks on this board and can be a helpfull resource.


It's difficult to give a good reply without knowing all the details of your system. Is this on
a new home? Have you been using the radiant slab with a conventional boiler? I'm
somewhat knowledgeable regarding radiant slab heating as an owner. The plumber/contractor
did a good job on building mine but I have had some issues. By chance I found a hydronic
engineer when looking for components to install my EB 150 and at some point when I have my storage
tank online, I'm planning on doing some modifacations to make the slab easier to use. I didn't understand
how involved this could be when I started it. MM

 

[greg in MN]

What do you have for return water temperature protection on the boiler??? What is the temps on the water exiting and especially RETURNING to the boiler???
For warm up the boiler has a short loop with aquastat set at 150, Grundfos 15-58 pump set on medium. When it hits 150 that pump shuts off and another Grundfos 15-58 ( set on high) starts pumping water to the house 105 feet away in 1.5 od, 1.25 id Thermopex. It goes through an air exchanger in the forced air furnace. On the way back to boiler there is a line to take hot water out to a mixing value set at 110 for the floor heat with a return to the main line. There are 8 loops, 300 feet each run by a Grundfos 15-58 set on high. I don't know temps on the water other then digital gauge on boiler. I assume over 150 coming back or the 2nd pump would shut off and the short loop would start. Any chance that I am pushing the water 2 fast?

Your slab well insulated? Wall thermostat or slab sensors?
2 year old house very well insulated and the floor was never heated before. 2 inch insulation under floor and all the way around outside of house. There are temp gauges on the 2 manifolds holding tubing for floor and they read very close to the same. There is a wall thermostat that turns floor pump on and off.

Greg

 

[mtnmizer]

EB boilers use a near boiler loop for return water protection and it sounds like you
have that done correctly. Some others use a mixing type valve. All your other
stuff sounds ok.

Slab radiant has a sizeable lag period between the time hot water is run into it
and when the room heats up. My house is similar to yours and I have radiant
slab in the basement. I have 12 loops of 300 ft but usually only run 3 or 4 and it
keeps the entire basement very warm. If I ran 4 loads into the slab it would be
excessivly hot for several days.. I keep my radiant pump, a 15-58 on low.
I was advised sometimes a slab works best with a constant flow of 90ish degree
water and with a slab sensor instead of a wall unit.... MM