Economics

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,499
central pa
I have to work with what iv got. Sure i could make more if i want travel out of the area every day. Iv did that when i was young. People here need housing,same as anywhere else. There is a ceiling on what i can charge for rent or what i get when i sell a home. I have to make it work with those numbers.
I cant simply raise rents in the area or raise house prices myself, like the local commisioners do with taxes to cover their retirement plans. Thankfully for you, you dont have too much competition,and can keep your prices high. For me the Govt is my competition.
My prices aren't high they are fair. We are not getting rich by any means. Just paying everyone involved a fair wage.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,499
central pa
And the reason you can't charge more is because wages in your area are way to low.
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,071
Eastern Central PA
My prices aren't high they are fair. We are not getting rich by any means. Just paying everyone involved a fair wage.
Im already paying more than twice the minimum ,out of my own share. If the minimum is raised to 15, that will not be enough.
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,071
Eastern Central PA
And the reason you can't charge more is because wages in your area are way to low.
Have you got a solution for that? I dont think forcing a mandated wage will do the trick. All the businees here are small business. Except for wal mart of course.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,499
central pa
Im already paying more than twice the minimum ,out of my own share. If the minimum is raised to 15, that will not be enough.
And I don't think 14.50 is anywhere near enough for skilled labor. I mean 10 years ago I was paying the kid that swept up the shop $12. And that was far from skilled labor.
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,071
Eastern Central PA
For the most part your wage for any particular skill all depends on how far your willing to drive. No skilled, can make 30hr plus in mid town manhatten.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,499
central pa
For the most part your wage for any particular skill all depends on how far your willing to drive. No skilled, can make 30hr plus in mid town manhatten.
Well yes obviously you will be able to make more in certain areas. But that doesn't mean wages as a whole in the country are not to low.
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,071
Eastern Central PA
And I don't think 14.50 is anywhere near enough for skilled labor. I mean 10 years ago I was paying the kid that swept up the shop $12. And that was far from skilled labor.
Your absolutely right. Ill fold up tomorrow. I might also be able to convince my friend to sell his restaurant, since hes not making big city wages ,who needs all those extra headaches anyway. Screw the town ,let it die.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,499
central pa
Your absolutely right. Ill fold up tomorrow. I might also be able to convince my friend to sell his restaurant, since hes not making big city wages ,who needs all those extra headaches anyway.
These are not big city wages. I am not very far from you at all (about 35 miles). And far from a big city.
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,071
Eastern Central PA
We will have to agree to dis-agree. The govt mandating 15min wage is not a cure all, will more likely put more people out of business than it helps. Of course in some areas it s fine. They are already at that level. Its not a one size fits all country.IMHO.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,499
central pa
We will have to agree to dis-agree. The govt mandating 15min wage is not a cure all, will more likely put more people out of business than it helps. Of course in some areas it s fine. Its not a one size fits all country.IMHO.
I completely agree it should not be one size fits all. And at this point $15 is probably to high for many areas. And it is absolutely to much of a jump at once. But the current minimum is absurdly low for any area.
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,071
Eastern Central PA
Traveling is not always a cure all either. One on my tenants/buyers got a a job in Philly and decided to give up his house he had almost paid off. I tried to talk him out of it but he insisted that was that best choice since he could make so much more money in Philly than he could here. Long story short he got that great job in philly ,making the big bucks and found that once he paid all his living expenses to live in philly he was broke every week. So eventually he moved back here, kept the good job and now travels back and forth ,a horrendous commute.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,499
central pa
Traveling is not always a cure all either. One on my tenants/buyers got a a job in Philly and decided to give up his house he had almost paid off. I tried to talk him out of it but he insisted that was that best choice since he could make so much more money in Philly than he could here. Long story short he got that great job in philly ,making the big bucks and found that once he paid all his living expenses to live in philly he was broke every week. So eventually he moved back here, kept the good job and now travels back and forth ,a horrendous commute.
Yet another example of wages being to low across the board. I moved out of Philly and back to this area years ago because of the cost of living.
 

Grizzerbear

Minister of Fire
Feb 12, 2019
575
SW Missoura
But if people were paid more across the board you could charge what the work you are doing is actually worth.
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone....their are a lot of valid points made but their are also a lot more forces at play for why people can't live on the current low wages that folks make. Healthcare costs being the chief problem imo. If we raised wages and then the cost of work and services raised we would be right back at square one I believe.
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,071
Eastern Central PA
I completely agree it should not be one size fits all. And at this point $15 is probably to high for many areas. And it is absolutely to much of a jump at once. But the current minimum is absurdly low for any area.
I agree in part . But in practice, iv found that employees are all different as well and some cant not even justify their wage at the current min wage,they get so little work done. To remedy that i convert them to piece work or contract work. Iv seen some of them make half or less the min wage when working this way, while the next guy can double or triple his wage doing the same work.
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,071
Eastern Central PA
Yet another example of wages being to low across the board. I moved out of Philly and back to this area years ago because of the cost of living.
Thats kinda my point ,if we were to raise wages to philly level ,all our living expenses would also go to philly level and would we be any better off? Or would we be looking for the exits?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Grizzerbear

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,499
central pa
I agree in part . But in practice, iv found that employees are all different as well and some cant not even justify their wage at the current min wage,they get so little work done. To remedy that i convert them to piece work or contract work. Iv seen some of them make half or less the min wage when working this way, while the next guy can double or triple his wage doing the same work.
Absolutely I have had plenty of people work for me who weren't worth what I offered them. I didn't lower their pay to what they were worth I fired them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Seasoned Oak

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,071
Eastern Central PA
The cost of living here needs to remain low since weve got half the town living on those $1200 a month SS checks. If it goes up too much too fast weve got another problem.
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,071
Eastern Central PA
So latest news is the Fed Govt is adding $600 a week to unemployment checks. UE check now about $600 week or less for lower income workers. Well that will make people stay home for sure even if their job is calling them back. Thats about = to a $25Hr boost in pay. For min wage folks tha would be about $35 hr to stay home . For higher wage about $50hr to stay home. Unemployment cks paying about= to earn a take home pay of $1200 week. Would make more sense to extend regular unemployment for more weeks.
 
Last edited:

Sodbuster

Minister of Fire
Sep 22, 2012
1,454
Michigan
So latest news is the Fed Govt is adding $600 a week to unemployment checks. UE check now about $600 week or less for lower income workers. Well that will make people stay home for sure even if their job is calling them back. Thats about = to a $25Hr boost in pay. For min wage folks tha would be about $35 hr to stay home . For higher wage about $50hr to stay home. Unemployment cks paying about= to earn a take home pay of $1200 week. Would make more sense to extend regular unemployment for more weeks.
That is good news, because around here, you can't tell there is a stay at home order, even though we have one. Any details on the cutoff point?
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,071
Eastern Central PA
That is good news, because around here, you can't tell there is a stay at home order, even though we have one. Any details on the cutoff point?
Senate now backtracking on this. Makes no sense to pay people twice as much to stay home as to work. Looks like they didnt think this through.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
4,237
Downeast Maine
Senate now backtracking on this. Makes no sense to pay people twice as much to stay home as to work. Looks like they didnt think this through.
I think at the moment the whole point is to pay folks to stay home and prevent the spread.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bholler

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,071
Eastern Central PA
I think at the moment the whole point is to pay folks to stay home and prevent the spread.
Well that will certainly do it. Lots of people we dont want staying home like medical personnel.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
4,237
Downeast Maine
Well that will certainly do it. Lots of people we dont want staying home like medical personnel.
Currently hospitals are offering $100+/hr for nurses, at least those who aren't afraid of getting a life threatening virus.
 

CaptSpiff

Feeling the Heat
Jan 13, 2014
481
Long Island, NY
Currently hospitals are offering $100+/hr for nurses, at least those who aren't afraid of getting a life threatening virus.
There are 2080 hours in the typical work year (inc holidays & vac). There are few nurses earning $100/hr, or $208,000 per year. They can earn that total in a year with OT pay, and a few I know do. I don't see them much. They work their asses off picking up extra night and weekend shifts.