This is a real mess on top of a government that is self serving and a populace with a me attitude. How many self proclaimed conservatives will refuse the redistribution of wealth being labeled as a stimulus check? I still believe the only way out of the Covid 19 mess is individual self control, and that is still not the norm.
Economics
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SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
I'm just going to live like a hermit for the rest of my life. All of my local stores have been offering curbside pickup since before the pandemic, so I'll be ok moving forward. I'd like to be more social, but essentially, for me at least, the worst possible scenario has happened. I have nearly all the tools I need to do everything myself on my property. We are working on a garden and chickens, so a few more steps towards self reliance.
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NickW
Minister of Fire
I think some of these posts would be more appropriate in the economics thread...
I don't believe the "rules" in our system are fair. I DO believe the system itself is basically correct.
Was this labeled as "wealth redistribution"? Isn't "wealth redistribution" what the liberals want?
Why should someone who identifies as conservative and is furloughed not be "deserving" of the stimulus check as is being suggested? Conservative beliefs does not equal rich. They are more like "stand on your own two feet" (if you can) instead of "stand with your hand out while on your smartphone and smoking a cigarette". Not all conservatives support bailouts and mega-conglomerats, but do believe if you are able bodied you should support yourself.
Seeing as our conservative President ran it through, maybe all the liberals should refuse the stimulus check in protest... If this stimulus had been run through by a liberal all the liberals out there would be saying it's the greatest deed ever by a president.
Isn't the bumper sticker "no bailouts" the mantra of the liberals?
What happened to the great liberal exodus to Canada that was threatened "if Trump gets elected"?
I await the bashing...
I don't believe the "rules" in our system are fair. I DO believe the system itself is basically correct.
Was this labeled as "wealth redistribution"? Isn't "wealth redistribution" what the liberals want?
Why should someone who identifies as conservative and is furloughed not be "deserving" of the stimulus check as is being suggested? Conservative beliefs does not equal rich. They are more like "stand on your own two feet" (if you can) instead of "stand with your hand out while on your smartphone and smoking a cigarette". Not all conservatives support bailouts and mega-conglomerats, but do believe if you are able bodied you should support yourself.
Seeing as our conservative President ran it through, maybe all the liberals should refuse the stimulus check in protest... If this stimulus had been run through by a liberal all the liberals out there would be saying it's the greatest deed ever by a president.
Isn't the bumper sticker "no bailouts" the mantra of the liberals?
What happened to the great liberal exodus to Canada that was threatened "if Trump gets elected"?
I await the bashing...
It's more of the same, but not really wealth distribution. It's debt based on more taxpayer money going to the corporations and wealthiest.
Gee, found $2400.00 in my acct this AM, wonder where that came from
Did you give it back? It came from all of us tax payers and those who will be paying it off in the future.Gee, found $2400.00 in my acct this AM, wonder where that came from
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
I'm putting part of mine towards local business since I am still getting my medical retirement pension payments.
Not a chance in hell, not a whiner like some. I'm 76, been paying taxes for 64 years and still am. Better I get it then some freeloading cry baby wanting his/her college paid for
You really are getting things confused here. No one is saying conservatives needing help right now are not deserving at all. Just that you shouldn't be bitching about people getting handouts while taking them yourself.
I don't think many beleive conservative equates to rich. But it should mean fiscally conservative across the board. Not fiscally conservative unless it furthers the "conservative agenda".
I also don't think no more bailouts is a liberal thing. I seem to remember lots of complaints from Republicans when a democratic president was in power when bailouts happened.
Again we need to stop the childish bickering. We are all Americans your political affiliation shouldn't matter. We need both sides working together if we ever want to move forward. And we need fiscal conservatives from both sides to dig us out of this financial mess.
So govt handouts are fine when they go to you? But for others they are bad. I see how that works
We let quite a bit of political discussion go on here in the inglenook as long as things don't get personal or nasty.
NickW
Minister of Fire
Well no mty asked if conservatives would refuse this stimulus plan because many had been so against it in the past. He was pointing out the hypocracy. Not saying anyone should or shouldn't turn it down. Which honestly I don't think is an option anyway.
I agree with you about support vs handouts. The problem arises when people's prejudices enter into who they label as a freeloader and who is deserving. But yes way to many from all walks of life take advantage of the system.
As far as complaining about the bail out. No the same people are generally not complaining. That is my point to many it is based solely upon which political party is in charge at the time. And very little to do with the actual plan.
As long as the bailout is actually a loan as most previous ones have been i have no issue with it. But sooner or later we need to let companies fail that continue to make poor buisness decisions.
I agree with you about support vs handouts. The problem arises when people's prejudices enter into who they label as a freeloader and who is deserving. But yes way to many from all walks of life take advantage of the system.
As far as complaining about the bail out. No the same people are generally not complaining. That is my point to many it is based solely upon which political party is in charge at the time. And very little to do with the actual plan.
As long as the bailout is actually a loan as most previous ones have been i have no issue with it. But sooner or later we need to let companies fail that continue to make poor buisness decisions.
NickW
Minister of Fire
That's still not how I read his post. Reading sarcasm isn't my strongest suit.
If you are correct I owe him an apology.
Maybe I'm getting touchy from being cooped up. Haven't had a card game with the inlaws since this started, big family vacation got cancelled, playing teacher, etc...
Oh I don't think you were rude or anything. No need for an apology in my mind. It has been a fairly friendly discussion by most here.That's still not how I read his post. Reading sarcasm isn't my strongest suit.
If you are correct I owe him an apology.
Maybe I'm getting touchy from being cooped up. Haven't had a card game with the inlaws since this started, big family vacation got cancelled, playing teacher, etc...
NickW
Minister of Fire
Individuals with under $75k adj gross income get $1200, 75k-99k still get something but less. Couples get $2400 if under 150k adj. Plus $500/child under 16. Didn't realize we'd get it until I googled it. Looked in the account and there it was... Surprise!
Another hidden bonus in the 2 trillion package is tax relief for the wealthiest. Sounds about right, yes?
www.forbes.com
This is not a left v right issue, that is contrived by politicians. It's great when we are arguing with each other because that helps keep our eyes off the ball. The fact of the matter is that the foxes are ransacking the henhouse which means that we will be paying this bill for a very long time while the wealthy get richer. It doesn't matter your party persuasion, the bill for this is on all of us with a huge increase in the national debt to fund their gains. The debt used to be a frontline issue for the TeaPartiers. Where are they now?
How Some Rich Americans Are Getting Stimulus ‘Checks’ Averaging $1.7 Million
While wealthy Americans are not eligible for the $1,200 stimulus checks being disbursed to many Americans, they are on pace to do even better. 43,000 taxpayers, who earn more than $1 million annually, are each set to receive a $1.7 million windfall on average thanks to a provision in the CARES Act.
www.forbes.com
This is not a left v right issue, that is contrived by politicians. It's great when we are arguing with each other because that helps keep our eyes off the ball. The fact of the matter is that the foxes are ransacking the henhouse which means that we will be paying this bill for a very long time while the wealthy get richer. It doesn't matter your party persuasion, the bill for this is on all of us with a huge increase in the national debt to fund their gains. The debt used to be a frontline issue for the TeaPartiers. Where are they now?
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To those who took my post personal, perhaps you should examine the basis of your anger. The post was, as bholler pointed out, about hypocrisy. And no matter how you look at it, it is a redistribution of wealth. An individual not receiving a check still will assume the tax burden. That individual's debt in many cases will become someone else's toy. Not groceries, not rent, but a bonus toy paid for by taking what another has earned.
Imagine in 2018 you pulled money out of your retirement to pay for medical care. That money counts as income, could put you over the limit of 99K and yet you are responsible for paying the debt for someone's new toy. And it could be every last cent you have that went toward medical care. No this is not my situation, but I guarantee it fits someone.
The true conservative who is not in need of the stimulus check for food, shelter etc., may not be able to refuse the money, but they certainly could apply it to help someone else. But no, most who do not need it will either rat hole it or buy a toy. Sure the toy would put money into the economy, but so would $1200 worth of food given to a food bank.
We get out of this mess by worrying about the other person as much as we worry about our self.
Imagine in 2018 you pulled money out of your retirement to pay for medical care. That money counts as income, could put you over the limit of 99K and yet you are responsible for paying the debt for someone's new toy. And it could be every last cent you have that went toward medical care. No this is not my situation, but I guarantee it fits someone.
The true conservative who is not in need of the stimulus check for food, shelter etc., may not be able to refuse the money, but they certainly could apply it to help someone else. But no, most who do not need it will either rat hole it or buy a toy. Sure the toy would put money into the economy, but so would $1200 worth of food given to a food bank.
We get out of this mess by worrying about the other person as much as we worry about our self.
I am unsure as to what you mean by missing the cutoff, but do agree the government picks winners and losers.
I had a big reduction of income in 2019. Previously I was definitely over the limit for a single person but I switched to part time (partially by choice, partially by circumstances). The claim is that the IRS uses the 2019 return if filed but defaults to the 2018 return if the 2019 form was not filed. My 2019 return was filed months ago. There are multiple types of "income" so I am not sure what line of the tax form is used. I havent seen a check yet.
The reality is since the mortgage crisis the fed has been artificially keeping interest rate low to drive investments to the stock market. That takes money out of bondholders which tend to be retirees either directly or via pensions. Its been a major shift of money out of the elderlys pocket to the equities markets. Unfortunately some elderly could not live on the low rates or wanted more and various higher risk financial products have popped up disguised as low risk. So called High Yield bond funds sound great until one realizes that another names for High Yield bond is a junk bond. The reason is that the only way the bond issuer can borrow the money is to pay a high level of interest since the risk of their default is so high. During an economic downturn, high yield debt tends to fail so suddenly that great rate of return is not so great as the investors rapidly sell the funds containing these bonds.
The reality is since the mortgage crisis the fed has been artificially keeping interest rate low to drive investments to the stock market. That takes money out of bondholders which tend to be retirees either directly or via pensions. Its been a major shift of money out of the elderlys pocket to the equities markets. Unfortunately some elderly could not live on the low rates or wanted more and various higher risk financial products have popped up disguised as low risk. So called High Yield bond funds sound great until one realizes that another names for High Yield bond is a junk bond. The reason is that the only way the bond issuer can borrow the money is to pay a high level of interest since the risk of their default is so high. During an economic downturn, high yield debt tends to fail so suddenly that great rate of return is not so great as the investors rapidly sell the funds containing these bonds.
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