Ecoteck Francesca, caked ash, riddle stuck, black Firex

[Chip B]

Hi all,

I posted a few weeks back, not able to get Barefoot pellets to burn properly, after running comfortably for 2 years on Maine Woods and Vermont Wood Pellets. So, still a raw beginner, reading the hearth.com back pages. Did a lot of vacuuming over the past weeks, per suggestions. Adjusted to -3 pellets, +4 draft (from -5 pellets, +5 draft) and the flame became mostly regular: flame will yo-yo 20 seconds high at the heat exchanger plate, 20 seconds low at 2-6 inches. We run the stove 16 hours a day, and clean every night.

Still have a couple of small questions. Making this a new post, hope that's okay.

1. We were getting a scant inch of sandy caked clinker, which smothered the firepot and caused a a drunken flame after 12 hours. Mixed the Barefoot half-and-half with Greene Team, and dropped the air another notch (to -3 pellets, +3 draft). No more clinker. I thought less air means less complete burning, means more ash. So, what cleared the clinker?

2. The lid of the hopper is hot, too hot to touch for more than a second. In previous years, with Maine Woods and Vermont Wood, the lid was only warm. Does this hot lid mean something's wrong?

3. The fire spends 30% of its cycle touching the plate below the heat exchanger. Over the past month, the riddle clogged every other day, with a fine hard light-grey powder. I have spent a couple of hours a week upside down in the firebox, scrubbing with emery paper on the heat exchanger cylinders until they are smooth metal and the riddle works again. Although I'm getting good quality time with my stove, I'd prefer not. How do I stop this build-up?


4. The Ecoteck manual says I'm doing it wrong if the Firex 600 is not white. Our Firex is brown or black. At the start of this season, we had white Firex. Now, most of the Firex is covered with a lizard-like brown scale. Have I ruined the Firex?

Thanks a lot. Grateful for any advice.

 

[Pelleting In NJ]

Sounds like a restricted exhaust, and or some real crappy pellets. I have never had any hard or caked deposits in my Ecoteck burn-pot. My firex is mostly a light beige color, except between the burn-pot and the drop-tube opening, where there are some black baked-on ash deposits. I use a soft 2 inch wide paintbrush to gently clean off the firex when I vacuum the stove out. The firex is very fragile, don't touch it with anything except a soft brush. Usually clinkers are a result of minerals in the wood of the pellets. You have to move the scraper rod (riddle?) at least once per bag of pellets, so it does not get jammed. It is easier to move the rod when the stove is cool. My flames regularly reach the top flame trap, especially when the stove is running on high. It is normal for the flame to "yo-yo" up and down while running. I don't think this is a problem. Not sure why your hopper lid is so hot, mine is just warm, but I have a Vornado fan sitting on top of the stove.

Do you have an OAK? What is the configuration of your flue?

My cleaning routine :
Every 3 to 5 bags of pellets, I clean my Ecoteck Elena as follows : takes about 10 minutes :
1) Remove Flame trap at top of firebox and vacumm around the heat exchanger tubes and the perimeter of the square opening just below the tubes. A "crevice" tool/nozzle on my ShopVac (with HEPA filter) works great. Move the scraper to the full out position to vaccum the rear edge of the square opening.
2) Use a soft 2 inch paint brush, gently brush off the Firex, use the vacuum nozzle to gather the dust. DO NOT scrape the Firex with the nozzle : it is fragile !
3) Replace the Flame-Trap
4) Vacuum the grate around the burnpot, then remove it.
5) Use a plastic spackle/putty knife and scrape the sides and bottom of the burn pot, then vacuum it, then remove it.
6) Vacuum the inside of burn-pot holder/receptacle.
7) Replace the burn pot
8) Replace the grate.
9) Pull out ashpan and vacuum it
10 Vacuum the bottom of the firebox, where the ashpan sits.
11) Replace the ashpan
12) Clean the glass with a wet (water) paper towel, dry it off with another (dry) paper towel. (NO WINDEX, and clean glass ONLY when it is cool to the touch)
Close it up !

I have never vacuumed my hopper : the Ecoteck auger does not seem to care about fines/dust.

About every ton of pellets, I vacuum out my flue.

At the end of the season (2 to 3 Tons) I take the side panels off, take the exhaust blower off, and open the two clean-out ports and vacuum everything out using a smaller diameter hose/tube, duct-taped into the hose nozzle of my ShopVac, to get into the clean-out ports and into the exhaust blower housing.

 

[Lake Girl]

Pelleting in NJ - what's your exhaust configuration, stove settings, pellet and draft, burn hours per day? Just wondering if I can fine tune better

Similar routine to Pelleting in NJ. Since my ash vac is lousy, I use a 1" putty knife to draw ash into fire box from the ledge around the heat exchange tubes about once a week. I also open inspection ports after 1000 hours burn and brush with dryer vent brush and vacuum with shop vac with hose taped on adapter then brush /vacuum out venting. I use shop vac with drywall paper filter which is why I don't use it routinely - paranoid about hot ash with the paper filter. Pull the exhaust blower at end of season along with inspection port cleaning.

Firex is darker around the burn pot and drop tube the same as mentioned above.

What is flue configuration, stove setting, draft/pellet ratio, pellet type, run 24/7? We have 3' horizontal run, stove setting 18' Pr01, pellet 0 draft between 1 and 2, Heartland softwood pellets and burn 24/7.

More ash build up in internals when on lower burn. May have more ash with hardwood pellets but it may be due to lower burn since I tried them in shoulder season. I know ash from hardwood seems denser than softwood so figure it settles more in exhaust path.

 

[Pelleting In NJ]

My recipe is set to Low Draft. My fuel and air trim are set to nominal. My flue is 4 inch Simpson Duravent -Pro. Stove adapter to a 45 elbow, then 5 feet horizontal, out the wall, to a Simpson horizontal vent cap. I have an OAK. I usually only burn during the day, shutdown at night. In this cold weather I usually run continuously on power level 4 or 5. I burn 1 to 2 bags per day.
I am burning PrestoLog (Lignetics) and Stove Chow (Premier Pellet PA).

 

[bmyers]

My recipe is set to Low Draft. My fuel and air trim are set to nominal. My flue is 4 inch Simpson Duravent -Pro. Stove adapter to a 45 elbow, then 5 feet horizontal, out the wall, to a Simpson horizontal vent cap. I have an OAK. I usually only burn during the day, shutdown at night. In this cold weather I usually run continuously on power level 4 or 5. I burn 1 to 2 bags per day.
I am burning PrestoLog (Lignetics) and Stove Chow (Premier Pellet PA).

I had issues with my monica when I had a vertical vent. I switched to horizontal with a 45 deg elbow and seems to work much better. I am curious to see how it does in its first 0 or below temps at night. It did good last night with outside air temp od 10.

 

[Pelleting In NJ]

What issues did you have with your vertical flue?

 

[Lake Girl]

Chip B - When was the last time you opened inspection ports/pulled exhaust blower and cleaned exhaust pathways? What is your venting configuration? Do you have an OAK?

bmyers - vertical flue issues X2? We have a second Elena we are going to install and were thinking of using vertical flue...

 

[bmyers]

What issues did you have with your vertical flue?

The dealer and I tried everything. I had a hard time keeping the stove from burning with a smokey flame. I would do normal cleaning but I would have to take stove apart often. I switched to horizontal and it was much better

Chip B - When was the last time you opened inspection ports/pulled exhaust blower and cleaned exhaust pathways? What is your venting configuration? Do you have an OAK?

bmyers - vertical flue issues X2? We have a second Elena we are going to install and were thinking of using vertical flue...

I am not saying it can't be done. I am saying horizontal worked better for me.

 

[Lake Girl]

Good to know and will factor in with other set-up... may try vertical just to see if we have the same issues

 

[Lake Girl]

Chip B - saw your horizontal venting info on another thread BUT do you have an OAK? Makes a difference in the burn... went for about 2 weeks without one when we first installed. Far better burn with the OAK

 

[Chip B]

Thanks for your help so far. Here are the answers to your questions.

What's the flue configuration?
All 4" pipe: a 6" straight piece from the stove, then a tee with cap as a soot trap, then a 2-foot vertical run with 2 45-degree elbows, then a horizontal 3-foot run. Less than 6 feet overall, mostly horizontal.

Do we have an OAK?
If OAK means is the stove taking air in from the outside, the answer is no. This is a drafty old house. The installer said I didn't need it.

Riddle / scraper?
In my case, it's easier to move when the stove is hot, wearing an oven mitt. I riddle several times during the day, or else I'll spend an hour with the emery paper, shaving the crud off that evening.

My cleaning routine matches Pelleting in NJ right down to the paintbrush, except I do this every night (1.33 bags in January). Cleaned out the clean-out ports etc last summer, per the manual. Cleaned out the flue and the soot trap during that warm (Boston) spell a week ago.

Running 16 hours per day. Pellet -3, draft +3, Barefoot alone clogs the firebox, Barefoot mixed half-and-half with Greene Team does not clog.

Low Draft when I plug it in. View Settings? 18' PR01 Timeout.... I haven't touched these, don't know enough, assume they are at factory settings. In which ones are you interested?

Questions are clearer, but along the same lines as originally.
1. Just so I can avoid it in future, which thing stopped the heavy sandy clinker: a) mixing my pellets, or b) lowering my draft?
2. Does the too-hot-to-touch hopper lid mean anything? I'm not going to ignite a hopper full of pellets I hope.
3. If I take the sides off Francesca, and vacuum the places mentioned, will that make a difference to the caking of soot on the exchanger tubes?
4. Is there anything I can do to rejuvenate the Firex back to beige?

Again, thanks.

 

[Lake Girl]

What power level are you burning at? Usually power 3 here but with the cold snap went up to 4.

Venting should not be a problem since you have 4" but bmyers comment about vertical venting doesn't totally rule that out.

OAK - most installer's will say you don't need it but it is poor advice (lots of threads discussing this). OAK directly feeds the combustion chamber so air requirement is met easily. Without an OAK, you are drawing from your interior air meaning you are throwing pre-heated air out your exhaust and spending more $ because you have burned pellets to heat that air. Interior air has to be replenished somehow so cold air will be pulled through any cracks or crevices it finds making it feel more drafty in the house. Clothes dryers and bathroom fans are doing the same thing so the pellet stove w/o OAK increases that need for replenishment with outside cold air.

Cleaning through exhaust ports should be done every 1000 hours of run time per manual = 1 to 1-1/2 ton of pellets. Since you're having burn issues it would shorten that time too. When you cleaned through the inspection ports did you also run a dryer brush up vertically to brush ash off the sides and use tubing to draw as much out as possible? My Elena Air is set up slightly differently with the inspection ports toward the rear not the side. There are channels that connect to main exhaust shaft that leads to the combustion blower. If you didn't snake tubing around to the back from the side inspection port, you may have missed large amounts of ash. Some members take their units outside and used compressed air; others disconnect the vacuum hose and use a leaf blower to suck out exhaust paths from outside venting.

Draft needs to be increased for hardwood pellets. Since I'm not familiar with those brands, I won't comment further

 

[Chip B]

We burn at power 3. By the way, does that just control the fan speed blowing over the heat exchanger tubes?

I understand the rationale behind OAK now. No changes for this winter, though.

No, I didn't take a dryer brush to the inspection ports that connect the main exhaust shaft to the combustion blower. And no, I didn't run tubing up there, from my ash vacuum cleaner. This sounds like a good candidate for the problem: three years without cleaning this. Let me get the side covers off Francesca over the weekend.

The draft is increased over last year: Maine Woods worked well on pellets -1, draft +1. Now I'm at pellets -3, draft +3.

By the way, the hopper lid is 110F, the air leaving the stove is 310F, using the kitchen meat thermometer. Is this okay?

Thanks for your help.

 

[Lake Girl]

Power level will control auger feed rate, convection blower (room blower over heat exchanger) and combustion blower. If you check menu 5 state stove, top number is rpms of the combustion blower and next number is exhaust temp. You will see changes on these when you change power levels in work mode.

Get cleaning The dryer brush (from Menards) may not make it around the bend to the back depending on where inspection ports are on the side. I use an old 36" length of garden hose but again may be too rigid to get around to the back. Clean the squirrel cage for the room blower while you've got it open. Hold inner vanes in place so it doesn't over rotate. I gently brush vanes with small paint brush or old tooth brush with small head. Shop vacs usually have more power than most ash vacs just use one with a drywall bag so you don't have dust blowing out exhaust. If using a ash vac make sure the filter is clean.

Attached photos of my inspection ports first one you can see the exhaust channel leading to combustion blower. Second photo shows right port and opened combustion blower.

Not sure about the temps from convection blower or hopper lid. Stove is in modulation right now - it's been about 3 weeks since its been able to do that

 

[Chip B]

Cleaned the stove, per suggestion. Got 1-1.5 cups of ash. Couldn't removed the screws from the exhaust fan housing, so I left it. Got a cup of unburnt pellets between the hopper and the heat exchanger. Started the stove up, it ran for 8 hours without anything odd.

Then suddenly the auger just stopped feeding pellets!

Ran a final cleaning. Started up again, no auger sound, stove went to Awaiting Flamme [sic] without noticing there were no pellets.

I am grateful to you all at hearth.com for your time and experience. But I'm throwing in the towel. Looking a reliable repairman on the South Shore of Boston.

 

[Lake Girl]

Chip have you unplugged the stove and removed the pellets just to make sure there is nothing jamming the auger? Some folks have found rocks, bolts, etc in bags of pellets.

Edit: Also use a mirror to check up the feed tube.

Good luck!

 

[Chip B]

Feel a bit sheepish. Needless to say, I did not give up. With a pencil, I poked the auger chute; pellets fell out easily, so nothing jammed. I went over the existing Ecoteck threads again, and there was my answer. The auger switches off if the door or the hopper lid is open.

I reconnected the hopper lid sensor. We're warm again.

Rocks and bolts, good grief. I'll keep an eye out.

Thanks again.

 

[Lake Girl]

Glad to hear your going again - easy thing to overlook when your piling ceramics back on etc.

 

[Pelleting In NJ]

To get the exhaust blower off, remove the six Philips head screws. That is easier than trying to remove the allen-key bolts around the outer portion of the housing.

I just replaced my room temperature probe : the original one was giving a way high room temp reading on the LCD display. The display was showing the room temp to be about 20 degrees warmer than it really was. Easy fix, $20 part.