EKO 25 - heat exchange tube help

[EKOguy]

Hi - I've been reading threads in this forum for several years, as I worked with a major contributor to the forum (Eric Johnson) who had lots of good things to say about the community. Eric advised me to move from a standard wood boiler to a gasification boiler and seeing as he was using an EKO, I ended up buying an EKO 25 and have been pretty happy with it - particularly after I got the wood drying aspect of things correct.

I've got the boiler in my basement and have had one working (on my second one) very well for several years. Over the summer I cleaned the boiler pretty well and left the doors/flap open to reduce condensation. I fired up the boiler for the season last weekend. Just after I closed the bypass flap to initiate gasification I tried to pull the handle to turbulate the heat exchange tubes (my routine, so that I turbulate every day), and found that the turbulating handle moved a little bit and then got stuck. Now, the bypass flap had been wide open all summer so the turbulating handle had been in position for that flap to be open - but now I can't move the handle more than an inch or two and I can't get the flap open more than an inch or two.

I proceeded with the assumption that creosote or ash or something was gumming up the heat exchange tubes so I threw some potatoes in the boiler (I tried this several times) as this had been a help previously when the turbulator had gotten sticky. No soap. I next removed the back/top cover to expose the heat exchange tubes - and I didn't see anything to account for the turbulating action being blocked. Keep in mind that I didn't take anything apart - I was just looking. The guy who sold me the unit advised me to pour some charcoal lighter fluid on the tubes and fire up the boiler - I guess with the idea that any creosote would get burned up. I did this a couple of times - again, no soap. Throughout this - I've seen no increase in the range of motion of the handle.

The space holding the turbulator and tubes is so tight that I'm hesitant to start dismantling things - but that's probably what I'm going to have to do next. Keep in mind that I'm not a mechanic or engineer and not particularly adept at these sorts of things but I'm willing to try to fix things myself, at least if the process makes sense to me.

The good news for me is that I can get the bypass flap open enough to get a fire started so I can operate the boiler and heat my home. The bad news is that I need to solve this heat exchange tube cleaning issue before things start getting too, too hot with the outflow to my chimney. Another piece of good news is that I still have my old EKO 25 in the basement - to provide spare parts if needed. I can't seem to locate any diagrams of the turbulating mechanism or how to easily remove the heat exchange tubes - so if that's my next step i may put that off for awhile while I think my way through it. I'm looking for any advice from this group. Thanks for anything at all - and happy holidays to you.

 

[Triumph562]

I just installed a new EKO 25 in my basement. I don't have any advice but I am also interested in the outcome or solution in case it ever happens to me.

Not to take away from your conundrum, but do you have issues with odors entering your house while it's running? I've had to build a draft hood and plastic sheet containment around the thing with an exhaust fan to keep the smell out of the house. My next step is to tighten the door hinges and seal the door better. I also read to seal the 4 screws holding the heat shield to the upper door need to be sealed better too, along with every other gasketed seal.

 

[EKOguy]

Yes, smoke and the associated odor has been an issue whenever we've burned wood in the basement (for the last 20 years). I also have a draft hood and exhaust fan that pretty much takes care of the issue. It would help if I had thermal storage and could just burn the fireload to completion each time - but I don't have that option at the moment. I don't currently have the smoke leakage issues you mention. I've had them in the past and have learned to maintain the seals all over the boiler as you noted. I'd be interested in learning more about your plastic sheet containment system - is it very effective? Ceiling to floor?

 

[Woodman1]

I have a eko 60. I would recommend to dismantle the turbulator lever and associated mechanisms and just let the tubes hang by a bolt or steel ring. It takes less than 15 minutes for me to pull the cover and pull the turbulators and run a scraper down the tubes. I do it twice a season for better or for worse

 

[Woodman1]

With that said, I'm running 1000 gallons of storage so my boiler is running full out all the time. No idling, your cleaning frequency may be different than mine

 

[EKOguy]

With that said, I'm running 1000 gallons of storage so my boiler is running full out all the time. No idling, your cleaning frequency may be different than mine

Thanks Woodman. I wonder if the heat exchange tube set up is different in the 60 versus the 25. The tubes in the 25 are welded to the unit. I'm still trying to burn things away using charcoal lighter fluid. I feel like I may be making some progress though that might just be wishful thinking. My next step will be to dismantle the turbulator mechanism and see which turbulators I can remove from the tubes. I think I'll find that there are 1 or 2 that are going to be the culprits and I won't be able to remove them - getting me back to the core issue of needing to eliminate creosote that has caused the turbulator(s) to be welded to the tube(s).

I'm very jealous of your thermal storage. I know the lack of thermal storage is the source of 99% of my boiler/cleaning issues. I seriously considered adding 500 gallon thermal storage to my unit but couldn't get anyone to even give me an estimate to do the installation. There's no way my 'trial and error' approach to this sort of thing would provide a good outcome if I tried to do it myself.

 

[Woodman1]

Yes the tubes are a welded part that makes up the heat exchanger. I was refering to the turbulators, so you can access and clean the tubes with a scraper or brush. Setting up storage is very simple if you have the room

 

[Triumph562]

Yes, smoke and the associated odor has been an issue whenever we've burned wood in the basement (for the last 20 years). I also have a draft hood and exhaust fan that pretty much takes care of the issue. It would help if I had thermal storage and could just burn the fireload to completion each time - but I don't have that option at the moment. I don't currently have the smoke leakage issues you mention. I've had them in the past and have learned to maintain the seals all over the boiler as you noted. I'd be interested in learning more about your plastic sheet containment system - is it very effective? Ceiling to floor?

It's not really a smoke issue, just that acrid woodgas/creosote smell while the unit is running. I can smell it coming from the top door. I do need to tighten the hinges as the door is much looser now. To add insult to injury, I have a horrible cold hearth syndrome where the basement fills with yucky cold flue odor when the system is not running. Then the stack effect pushes that odor upstairs and through the house. I'm in a very tall 2 story colonial, 9' ceilings. The unsealed bilco hatch isn't helping either, a project for another day to build a door to.

So far I have fabricate sections of galvanized sheetmetal with bent edges, maybe a 6'x4' section, with a 4" exhaust hole at the top. I'm using an inline fan that is quiet to vent air outside a dryer vent type outlet and flex duct.

I coordinate a good deal of asbestos abatement activity at work. My inspiration comes from the same principle of creating an airtight containment structure around the boiler, sealed top to bottom. I can use a zipper opening to enter and exit the space. At one end, near the bottom, I am going to run an 8" flex duct to the other unused basement window for fresh air intake. The air that enters will be pulled into the combustion fan of the EKO. The remaining air/odor/smoke will be vented outside through the existing 4" exhaust duct (this will also let me reload mid-burn without fear of polluting the home with a smoke plume). The exhaust fan is variable speed so I can set it to just barely pull air. I am very aware of having too much vacuum suction inside this tent as not to disturb the draft.

The theory is, I am going to divorce the airspace that feeds the boiler room from the airspace of the basement/house. Almost as if the thing was outside in it's own shed. If my plastic sheeting gets too annoying, I may very well just build a sheetrock room around the system with airtight door, makeup air/exhaust air, etc. At least this will prove my idea. I'll post back if it works, when I get it set up in the next couple weeks hopefully. My wood isn't perfectly dry for this winter so I'm not really rushing. Just moved here in March this year.

 

[EKOguy]

I have a eko 60. I would recommend to dismantle the turbulator lever and associated mechanisms and just let the tubes hang by a bolt or steel ring. It takes less than 15 minutes for me to pull the cover and pull the turbulators and run a scraper down the tubes. I do it twice a season for better or for worse

OK, I was just rereading this. Do you mean that you've permanently dismantled the turbulator handle and you do your manual cleaning periodically? Or do you assemble/disassemble the turbulator handle in between manual cleanings? I can see dismantling it and cleaning manually - I'd probably need to do it weekly but doubt that would be such a big deal. What is it that you use to scrape the tubes? I'm currently still trying to burn up the creosote with lighter fluid but not seeing any good results.

 

[EKOguy]

It's not really a smoke issue, just that acrid woodgas/creosote smell while the unit is running. I can smell it coming from the top door. I do need to tighten the hinges as the door is much looser now. To add insult to injury, I have a horrible cold hearth syndrome where the basement fills with yucky cold flue odor when the system is not running. Then the stack effect pushes that odor upstairs and through the house. I'm in a very tall 2 story colonial, 9' ceilings. The unsealed bilco hatch isn't helping either, a project for another day to build a door to.

So far I have fabricate sections of galvanized sheetmetal with bent edges, maybe a 6'x4' section, with a 4" exhaust hole at the top. I'm using an inline fan that is quiet to vent air outside a dryer vent type outlet and flex duct.

I coordinate a good deal of asbestos abatement activity at work. My inspiration comes from the same principle of creating an airtight containment structure around the boiler, sealed top to bottom. I can use a zipper opening to enter and exit the space. At one end, near the bottom, I am going to run an 8" flex duct to the other unused basement window for fresh air intake. The air that enters will be pulled into the combustion fan of the EKO. The remaining air/odor/smoke will be vented outside through the existing 4" exhaust duct (this will also let me reload mid-burn without fear of polluting the home with a smoke plume). The exhaust fan is variable speed so I can set it to just barely pull air. I am very aware of having too much vacuum suction inside this tent as not to disturb the draft.

The theory is, I am going to divorce the airspace that feeds the boiler room from the airspace of the basement/house. Almost as if the thing was outside in it's own shed. If my plastic sheeting gets too annoying, I may very well just build a sheetrock room around the system with airtight door, makeup air/exhaust air, etc. At least this will prove my idea. I'll post back if it works, when I get it set up in the next couple weeks hopefully. My wood isn't perfectly dry for this winter so I'm not really rushing. Just moved here in March this year.

It sounds like you have a much more complicated set up/problem than I'm experiencing. I have an old, uninsulated house, with a very drafty basement - so there's lots of fresh air flowing everywhere. I just need to direct the smoke out the basement window. Thanks for the detailed description.

 

[EKOguy]

Yes the tubes are a welded part that makes up the heat exchanger. I was refering to the turbulators, so you can access and clean the tubes with a scraper or brush. Setting up storage is very simple if you have the room

Hmm, I was told that the thermal storage set up was going to be pretty complicated (and so, expensive). I can make the room - but I don't have the wherewithal to do the hook up. Ah, the challenge of being a not so handy guy - I can handle carpentry, wood processing, and other stuff, but plumbing and electrical have never stuck with me.

 

[Triumph562]

It sounds like you have a much more complicated set up/problem than I'm experiencing. I have an old, uninsulated house, with a very drafty basement - so there's lots of fresh air flowing everywhere. I just need to direct the smoke out the basement window. Thanks for the detailed description.

Yes, my house is 2003 construction. Very tight everywhere. well insulated. You probably have enough air exchanges for it to not be nearly as big an issue. A curse and a blessing!

 

[salecker]

Storage is easy once you find the tanks you are going to use.
Everyone here will help walk you through it.
If you search my threads you can see a tool i made for cleaning my Econoburn.I tried a few things and the only tool so far that works is the one i made.Takes the tubes back to shiny metal.
I have a fancy cleaning tool i got from McMaster,the coating on my flue tubes laughed at it.You can have it if you want it for the price of shipping.

 

[EKOguy]

Storage is easy once you find the tanks you are going to use.
Everyone here will help walk you through it.
If you search my threads you can see a tool i made for cleaning my Econoburn.I tried a few things and the only tool so far that works is the one i made.Takes the tubes back to shiny metal.
I have a fancy cleaning tool i got from McMaster,the coating on my flue tubes laughed at it.You can have it if you want it for the price of shipping.

Hey Salecker - I appreciate the enouragement. I'm planning to purchase a 500 gallon repurposed propane tank (probably in the spring) and will take the installation step by step from there. Assuming the Econoburn and EKO are similar, did you remove the turbulating handle and turbulators completely in order to clean the tubes manually? Obvious answer I guess - you'd have to wouldn't you? I suppose that's what I'll have to do as I've gone through several bottles of lighter fluid hoping to burn away creosote and free up the turbulators. In the course of looking through your threads I ran into a lot of other useful information - posted by you and others. Thanks!

 

[salecker]

To clean the Econoburn you have to remove the turbulators.
I always hook them back up to the shaker lever, but the reality is the leaver moves them up and down but there is to much clearance for that to do anything other than make you feel like you are doing something.

 

[Fred61]

Greetings,

I haven't been here for a while. Mostly been struggling with the developement of Parkinson's but I read your post and realized the conundrum you're facing.

I'll try to give you enough information here to short cut your path to success.

Almost every correction we make is tied to the next correction so try not to get confused.

First is the acrid odor.> You have a fire here and the aquastat is satisfied so you extinguish the fire. There are a couple ways to do this, Take the air away or take the fuel away. Unfortunately you only have one choice and it is the worst of the two. You're taking the air away. You just turned your boiler into a tar factory. Picture shutting down an oil or gas fire that way. Not good results! That crap is running all over the place not only smelling up your house but you're taking the odor with you to the office. school and church. Or perhaps a job interview.
You need to burn the full load of wood as hot as possible. The only way to do that is with enough storage to absorb the heat produced. With the 25 you will need at least 500 gallons. That will take care of the odor and all the gummed up mechanicals. You will always have a deposit on the sides of the upper chamber since that is not where the fire is taking place.

Now to the turbulators. Every time that polish guy on the EKO assembly line installs the turbulator salad he chuckles and you were the butt of the joke. Get rid of that claptrap. First, the turbulators do not clean the tubes to the extent that they need to be cleaned in order to achieve any kind of efficiency. With your first mm of smoke on the tubes your efficiency is headed down hill. They need to be brushed or scraped quite often ans you are more likely to do it if it's only removing a couple panels.
What I did was to weld a large ring on the turband let it drop into the tube. I discarded the turbulators and opted for logging chains since the two worked equally well and are easier to work with. Just snag them out with a hook or your wife's gardening tools and drop them in a bucket. Photo attached (I hope). Don't forget to vacuum the dust from the lower chamber.
One bigest responses I've heard is "O NO" I have to light a fire every day. It's easy. Just find a couple pieces of charcoal from the last burn or some that you squirled away in case every bit of wood had burned up, place them near the nozzel and lay two or three smsll splits on top. Switch on the unit and play the torch flame up through the nozzel for about a minute. Shut lower door and allow the fire to engulf the splits. When the splits are flaming, load up the firebox and close the bypass. Less than 10 minutes. This works if your firewood supply is whithin the necessary perameters for moisture content.

 

[EKOguy]

Greetings,

I haven't been here for a while. Mostly been struggling with the developement of Parkinson's but I read your post and realized the conundrum you're facing.

I'll try to give you enough information here to short cut your path to success.

Almost every correction we make is tied to the next correction so try not to get confused.

First is the acrid odor.> You have a fire here and the aquastat is satisfied so you extinguish the fire. There are a couple ways to do this, Take the air away or take the fuel away. Unfortunately you only have one choice and it is the worst of the two. You're taking the air away. You just turned your boiler into a tar factory. Picture shutting down an oil or gas fire that way. Not good results! That crap is running all over the place not only smelling up your house but you're taking the odor with you to the office. school and church. Or perhaps a job interview.
You need to burn the full load of wood as hot as possible. The only way to do that is with enough storage to absorb the heat produced. With the 25 you will need at least 500 gallons. That will take care of the odor and all the gummed up mechanicals. You will always have a deposit on the sides of the upper chamber since that is not where the fire is taking place.

Now to the turbulators. Every time that polish guy on the EKO assembly line installs the turbulator salad he chuckles and you were the butt of the joke. Get rid of that claptrap. First, the turbulators do not clean the tubes to the extent that they need to be cleaned in order to achieve any kind of efficiency. With your first mm of smoke on the tubes your efficiency is headed down hill. They need to be brushed or scraped quite often ans you are more likely to do it if it's only removing a couple panels.
What I did was to weld a large ring on the turband let it drop into the tube. I discarded the turbulators and opted for logging chains since the two worked equally well and are easier to work with. Just snag them out with a hook or your wife's gardening tools and drop them in a bucket. Photo attached (I hope). Don't forget to vacuum the dust from the lower chamber.
One bigest responses I've heard is "O NO" I have to light a fire every day. It's easy. Just find a couple pieces of charcoal from the last burn or some that you squirled away in case every bit of wood had burned up, place them near the nozzel and lay two or three smsll splits on top. Switch on the unit and play the torch flame up through the nozzel for about a minute. Shut lower door and allow the fire to engulf the splits. When the splits are flaming, load up the firebox and close the bypass. Less than 10 minutes. This works if your firewood supply is whithin the necessary perameters for moisture content.


View attachment 304009

I'm going to give this chain idea a shot. Thanks for the time it took to send me this information, I appreciate it.

 

[EKOguy]

Ok, just thought I'd provide an update in case anyone wants to chime in with advice or encouragement. I decided that the way forward was to remove the turbulators, clean the heat exchange tubes in some fashion (I like the chains method Fred61 described above), and then either replace the turbulators, or move forward cleaning with the chains on a periodic basis (weekly, probably). So I went ahead and removed the top/back panel of the boiler, removed the turbulator handle, removed the plate that positions the handle with the turbulator mechanism, removed the handle extension that then freed up the turbulator bar (the bar that is attached to all the turbulators in the boiler.) I figured I would need to pull up with some force to remove the turbulators from their tubes - I had a flat bar and some leverage, thinking this might be enough force. Anyway, after a couple hours of monkeying around with it, I couldn't get the turbulators to free up. Actually, it seems like only one or two are really stuck - as the others look like they're moving freely. There's a bunch of ash and debris in the tube chamber for those two and the area is just out of reach of my vacuuming efforts - so I can't see what's going on in there. I think I'm going to need something more powerful than my lever bar and my personal strength. I closed things up again so I could figure out my next move. If i can get the turbulators out of the boiler entirely I'll be able to move forward in a number of ways - but in the meantime I'm stuck. Maybe a little dynamite?

 

[JTWALL]

Hi - I've been reading threads in this forum for several years, as I worked with a major contributor to the forum (Eric Johnson) who had lots of good things to say about the community. Eric advised me to move from a standard wood boiler to a gasification boiler and seeing as he was using an EKO, I ended up buying an EKO 25 and have been pretty happy with it - particularly after I got the wood drying aspect of things correct.

I've got the boiler in my basement and have had one working (on my second one) very well for several years. Over the summer I cleaned the boiler pretty well and left the doors/flap open to reduce condensation. I fired up the boiler for the season last weekend. Just after I closed the bypass flap to initiate gasification I tried to pull the handle to turbulate the heat exchange tubes (my routine, so that I turbulate every day), and found that the turbulating handle moved a little bit and then got stuck. Now, the bypass flap had been wide open all summer so the turbulating handle had been in position for that flap to be open - but now I can't move the handle more than an inch or two and I can't get the flap open more than an inch or two.

I proceeded with the assumption that creosote or ash or something was gumming up the heat exchange tubes so I threw some potatoes in the boiler (I tried this several times) as this had been a help previously when the turbulator had gotten sticky. No soap. I next removed the back/top cover to expose the heat exchange tubes - and I didn't see anything to account for the turbulating action being blocked. Keep in mind that I didn't take anything apart - I was just looking. The guy who sold me the unit advised me to pour some charcoal lighter fluid on the tubes and fire up the boiler - I guess with the idea that any creosote would get burned up. I did this a couple of times - again, no soap. Throughout this - I've seen no increase in the range of motion of the handle.

The space holding the turbulator and tubes is so tight that I'm hesitant to start dismantling things - but that's probably what I'm going to have to do next. Keep in mind that I'm not a mechanic or engineer and not particularly adept at these sorts of things but I'm willing to try to fix things myself, at least if the process makes sense to me.

The good news for me is that I can get the bypass flap open enough to get a fire started so I can operate the boiler and heat my home. The bad news is that I need to solve this heat exchange tube cleaning issue before things start getting too, too hot with the outflow to my chimney. Another piece of good news is that I still have my old EKO 25 in the basement - to provide spare parts if needed. I can't seem to locate any diagrams of the turbulating mechanism or how to easily remove the heat exchange tubes - so if that's my next step i may put that off for awhile while I think my way through it. I'm looking for any advice from this group. Thanks for anything at all - and happy holidays to you.

Good day! I have owned two Model 25 wood boilers. Removal of the handle and associated pieces is not that difficult (removed on both units)...you will get dirty though. Both units - I permanently removed all the associated moving parts (made a plate to cover the hole in the boiler housing). Why? Look at the turbulators then move the handle back-and-forth; up and down movement of the turbulators is minimal at best. I welded short lengths of bar stock in the holes at the top of each turbulator to form a "T" (you could do they same thing using a machine screw and a couple of nuts). The bar stock sits on top of the heat exchanger to support the turbulator. For cleaning, I have a dowel with a hook in the end that allows me to easily lift out each turbulator. I then use a boiler brush (Amazon) and run it up and down the inside of ewach heat exchanger tube; (check tube diameter):
The brush will do a superior job of cleaning!
With that said, I never see anything other than fly ash, but I have heard of other owners that have had the turbulators get stuck in the tubes and it was a PITA to get them out! Removing the chimney at the rear of the boiler will make hardware removal easier. I can send some pics if you tell me what you want to see. Good luck!
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