Eko 40 help

[Thecornguy]

Hi. I have an eko 40. I have been running this boiler for a year and a half now with relatively no trouble. My problem is I have a good gasification fire going but the system is not heating up. I have 1000 gallon storage that is taking everything from the boiler. Inside the room the stack temp is 220 the same as it has been for a year and a half. The top of the stack is 153 degrees. I come home from work and the system is usually 140 degrees I light a fire and in about 5-6 hours the system is 185 degrees. Yesterday I did my usual routine and 10 hours and a few extra loads of wood later it was only 175 degrees. This problem occurred all of a sudden. I bled the system of air and did get a little out. I'm thinking maybe the heat exchanger is plugged up? The wood is dry and burns good and the system never idles I shake the turbulator handle every few days. It just seems like I should have noticed a gradual decline in efficiency over a period of time not in a day. If it is the heat exchanger how do you get that clean? Also can someone explain to me the chains people are talking about that they hang in the heat exchanger? Keep it dumb for me please I'm not real familiar on all the professional terms lol. Thank you all

 

[maple1]

I don't have an Eko, but

-Those are pretty low stack temps. How are they measured & with what?

-Have you ever cleaned the boiler? Thinking your manual should help there?

-Are you sure your wood is dry?

 

[Fred61]

Maple's last question is my first question. How dry is your wood? Do you have a moisture meter? I'll tell you why I'm asking. A similar situation happened to me a couple years ago. I was recovering from surgery and my wife volunteered to bring in the wood. My experience was exactly as you described. Turns out she was getting the wood from a stack that was only about 9 months since splitting and stacking. Get yourself a moisture meter and before you use it, ask the guys here how to use it.

Addressing the heat exchange tubes: How long has it been since they were brushed or scraped? First of all, forget about that lever. It's useless. By the time the build up in the tube is thick enough to contact the turbulaters, the heat exchange of the boiler has long been compromised, I'm assuming you have never had the turbs out which indicates to me that you haven't cleaned them. You probably won't be able to do this during the heating season but come spring, the first order of business would be to remove and scrap the mechanism that actuates the turbs. While you're in there up to your elbows in soot, give the interior a good cleaning. Clean those tubes 'til they shine. You will need to fabricate a blank plate to cover the opening that the where the useless lever enters the boiler. Find a way to hang the turbs or chains if you wish (they work equally as well) so they will be easy to remove for cleaning and get in there and clean more often.

I assume you are measuring your stack temperature with a magnetic thermometer. You are not getting a true reading with that. In fact given the temperatures you reported I doubt the accuracy of the unit.

 

[NateB]

If it is the heat exchanger you could take the plate of the back and shine the light down on of the tubes and look for build up. It is hard to get the turbulators, so cleaning it will be hard the first time. I can help you, if the exchanger is the problem.

 

[Thecornguy]

If it is the heat exchanger you could take the plate of the back and shine the light down on of the tubes and look for build up. It is hard to get the turbulators, so cleaning it will be hard the first time. I can help you, if the exchanger is the problem.

The tubes look kind of crudded but not as bad as I was expecting. I never took it apart the guy in West Virginia where I bought it assured me the lever is all I needed. I'm trying to get the turbs out now. But how? Taking off the flange now hope that's the answer. Thanks for the help guys

 

[NateB]

You have to take the covers off, and you will need a brush on a long extension, and a drill to spin it

 

[Thecornguy]

Ok got it all apart and brushed it out. There was a little ash in there and a thin layer of gray material like concrete. The layer is only a hundredth of an inch thick. I thought it would be black creosote but it's gray does that sound right? It's more like corn clinker than creosote. It's not coming out at all tried the tops with a screwdriver just to see if I could get it off. Barely touched it. I only have a nylon brush where can I get a threaded brush made of steel or stainless? What are they called? Quick google search came up with boiler brush not many available. Inch and three quarters sound right? Thank you guys

 

[Thecornguy]

I don't have an Eko, but

-Those are pretty low stack temps. How are they measured & with what?

-Have you ever cleaned the boiler? Thinking your manual should help there?

-Are you sure your wood is dry?

Used a laser thermometer I hit the inside of the stack cover I know that isn't accurate but gave me an idea. The manual I have is for the old style so not a lot of help. Wood is dry standing dead oak split and under a layer of plastic on skids split for a year and a half.

 

[Thecornguy]

Maple's last question is my first question. How dry is your wood? Do you have a moisture meter? I'll tell you why I'm asking. A similar situation happened to me a couple years ago. I was recovering from surgery and my wife volunteered to bring in the wood. My experience was exactly as you described. Turns out she was getting the wood from a stack that was only about 9 months since splitting and stacking. Get yourself a moisture meter and before you use it, ask the guys here how to use it.

Addressing the heat exchange tubes: How long has it been since they were brushed or scraped? First of all, forget about that lever. It's useless. By the time the build up in the tube is thick enough to contact the turbulaters, the heat exchange of the boiler has long been compromised, I'm assuming you have never had the turbs out which indicates to me that you haven't cleaned them. You probably won't be able to do this during the heating season but come spring, the first order of business would be to remove and scrap the mechanism that actuates the turbs. While you're in there up to your elbows in soot, give the interior a good cleaning. Clean those tubes 'til they shine. You will need to fabricate a blank plate to cover the opening that the where the useless lever enters the boiler. Find a way to hang the turbs or chains if you wish (they work equally as well) so they will be easy to remove for cleaning and get in there and clean more often.

I assume you are measuring your stack temperature with a magnetic thermometer. You are not getting a true reading with that. In fact given the temperatures you reported I doubt the accuracy of the unit.

The wood has been split for a year and a half stacked on skids with just the top covered. It was all standing dead stuff. No moisture meter but the boiler runs great no smoke I know that doesn't replace a moisture meter. I used a laser thermometer to get the temps outside the flue pipe next to boiler and hit the underside of the stack cover. I never cleaned the tubes the dealer assured me the lever was all I needed. Hah. What do the chains do? Slow down the exhaust? I'm guessing. What size chain do I use 1/2" stainless or regular steel? If it was as easy as pulling some chains out I wouldn't mind brushing once a month. So I would like to rig that up. Thanks for your help.

 

[stee6043]

When my EKO was really humming my stack temps were usually right around 400. Give that thing more air!

For what it's worth if you have good, dry wood and your air is setup correctly a full load of wood should likely only last 3-4 hours in your EKO.

 

[maple1]

Kinda sounds like some kinda air issue here too. Dirty/blocked air passages? Fan konking out?

 

[Fred61]

Flue temperature should measured by an immersion thermometer in the middle of the pipe. You can get all kinds of readings by measuring the surface of the flue pipe due to ash build-up on the inside surface. And it in far from the true flue temp.

You'll need to remove that "concrete" clinker material from the tubes. Makes a huge difference in efficiency. A wire brush may not be adequate for removal. I'm not familiar with the mechanical scrapers that others have discussed here because my schedule of frequent cleaning has never allowed a build-up. Perhaps someone will chime in on the subject.

The turbulators do exactly what the name implies. The make the flow turbulent as opposed to allowing a smooth laminar flow which is less likely to transfer heat to the boiler water. I used regular 3/8 chain from Tractor Supply. Measure how long the chains need to be and have the store cut them for you. I welded a 3 inch ring on the end to keep them in place and for ease of removal with a hook.

 

[Thecornguy]

When my EKO was really humming my stack temps were usually right around 400. Give that thing more air!

For what it's worth if you have good, dry wood and your air is setup correctly a full load of wood should likely only last 3-4 hours in your EKO.

Ok thanks. More air! Primary air or second derrière hah. When I stir up the coals and add new wood the thing sounds like a rocket and flame shoots out the bottom past the door opening. It burns like that for about five minutes then calms down to a small orange glow. It burns clean so I thought that was what it was supposed to do. The only adjustments I made was open the inlet on the fan a little opened the secondary a little and run fan speed at eighty percent

 

[Fred61]

I still think it's your wood. I have my combustion air dialed down so low that the fan just barely starts and I have a "fire tornado" going in the secondary chamber. Tell me: is your wood producing a coal bed of say about 2 or three inches deep? If not I suggest trying to find a wheelbarrow full of wood that had been cut green (not dead) and split and stacked for a year. Your wood species may be one that doesn't coal up well.

By the way. Is the guy in West Virginia that told you the lever was all you needed to keep the boiler clean named Zenon?

 

[Thecornguy]

I still think it's your wood. I have my combustion air dialed down so low that the fan just barely starts and I have a "fire tornado" going in the secondary chamber. Tell me: is your wood producing a coal bed of say about 2 or three inches deep? If not I suggest trying to find a wheelbarrow full of wood that had been cut green (not dead) and split and stacked for a year. Your wood species may be one that doesn't coal up well.

By the way. Is the guy in West Virginia that told you the lever was all you needed to keep the boiler clean named Zenon?

Yes Zenon I am hard of hearing and he is very hard to understand especially over the phone. I tried to call him a few times but that was futile. He told me the handle is all I needed on the new models. The wood is white and red oak mostly. A little cherry and ash mixed in. The bed of coals after 2 hours of burning is at least 3" thick sometimes it's deeper than the fire block in the bottom. I start a new fire daily

 

[Fred61]

Yes Zenon I am hard of hearing and he is very hard to understand especially over the phone. I tried to call him a few times but that was futile. He told me the handle is all I needed on the new models. The wood is white and red oak mostly. A little cherry and ash mixed in. The bed of coals after 2 hours of burning is at least 3" thick sometimes it's deeper than the fire block in the bottom. I start a new fire daily

Don't feel alone. Unless you are fluent in Polish you won't be able to understand.

Well, looking at your description of the fire tells me my assessment on the wood is incorrect. I also light a new fire everyday. Within a half hour of lighting, the wood is coaling and producing the bed of coals needed to sustain a good hot gas producing fire. The splits must continuously be producing coal throughout the burn. If you have a split that is just glowing and not producing coals then the wood is not sufficiently dry.

 

[Thecornguy]

Don't feel alone. Unless you are fluent in Polish you won't be able to understand.

Well, looking at your description of the fire tells me my assessment on the wood is incorrect. I also light a new fire everyday. Within a half hour of lighting, the wood is coaling and producing the bed of coals needed to sustain a good hot gas producing fire. The splits must continuously be producing coal throughout the burn. If you have a split that is just glowing and not producing coals then the wood is not sufficiently dry.

Yes the bottom of the upper fire is solid coals. My fire procedure is: place two med-small splits on either side of nozzle fill void with kindling and 1"X1" splits. Get her going add medium splits get that going pull the bypass and induce gasification. Come back in an hour load half of a box with med and large splits. Two hours after that go back in and check temps and guesstimate how much wood to add to get me to max temp without having anything left over usually half to 3/4 load. Weather here is unpredictable yesterday windy and 26 today calm sunny and 55. I was able to get a 2" brush with 1/4" npt I don't have enough roof clearance to run the whole length so I got a bunch of 12" nipples and couplers. half way through all the tubes headed to harbor freight for a new hd drill. Lol. seems to be working pretty well fairly shiny with a good bit of surface rust. Looks like there was about 1/16" of buildup on the tubes. Thanks everyone for all the help. Next step air adjustment. Do you think opening up the primary?

 

[Fred61]

Don't know what to advise on the air since mine runs on a minimum of volume.
If you still have the back end open, check to see if the bypass damper (flap) mates well with the opening. I recently had a problem where my fire was lethargic and found that the damper had tightened up and didn't wobble on it's mount causing it not to mate well with the rim of the opening, This caused the combustion air to leak by instead of going through the nozzle.

 

[Thecornguy]

An "old timer boiler operator" told me today that the inside of the heat exchanger it probably crudded up. Says he treats the water every day on the commercial boilers. I know it's possible but is it likely? I've been only running this thing for a year and a half. It's a closed system pressurized. I keep the auto feed off and monitor pressure every day. I only turned the feed on once this season and it didn't seem to take a lot. Maybe turned it on 3 times last year. I do it this way so I can detect a leak. My oil boiler has been in use for 40 years and doesn't have this problem. I know wood and oil are two different animals but a year and a half? What do the experts here say?

 

[Fred61]

I'm an old timer too. No it's not likely your vessel is cruddy. He probably works with steam boilers if he's treating every day.

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[Thecornguy]

I'm an old timer too. No it's not likely your vessel is cruddy. He probably works with steam boilers if he's treating every day.

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Thanks Fred. For all your help. I figured anyone who felt the need to tell me he has all the state licenses twice the first time I talked to him wasn't someone I would want to entrust 100%. These wood gasification boilers are like space technology to all the people in hvac around here. If I got a buck every time someone told me I was crazy for filling a propane tank with water or every RCA puppy dog stare I got when I try to explain my system to them I would be able to switch back to oil. Ha. Or how about "oh you have an outside wood stove". "Those things smoke like hell I thought they were outlawed". Again thank you for sticking with me. My buddy is coming after work tomorrow to help me wrestle those turbulators back in. I'll let you know how it works. And I'm definitely doing the chains this spring.

 

[Fred61]

I don't anticipate any change since I still think the problem is on the burn side after you described how the wood was burning (just glowing). I hope I'm wrong.

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[Thecornguy]

I don't anticipate any change since I still think the problem is on the burn side after you described how the wood was burning (just glowing). I hope I'm wrong.

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It just seems odd to me that it would stop taking heat in one day. Fine on Thursday no good Friday. The glow has been like that from day one. I'm not saying that the glow is the best or the right way. Just that it worked up until now. I will definitely work on the adjustments to get a constant roar. I'm hoping the good cleaning gets me back to a good heat transfer at least

 

[Thecornguy]

There was a small shop vac full of ash on top of the heat exchanger box and my brushing knocked down about two gallons of orange and black grit. I'm glad I pulled the thing apart now I see how it all works

 

[Fred61]

Did you check the sea on the bypass?

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