eko-80 running on ONE fan

[leaddog]

Yesterday I disconected one of my fans to see what would happen. The results are positive so far. I had them on 50% and I did bump it up to 80% speed but I'm happy with the burn. I'm still only running with the fan cover open about 1-1/4in and I think I could close that more. The wood I'm burning isn't as dry as I would like so at times I need to supply more air than optimum. I have a temp controller hooked up to my stack so I can watch any changes and running with one fan didn't seem to make any difference because I had shut them down so far I wasn't using any where near the capacity.
This is a very easy job. just unscrew the fan electrical cover on the left fan and disconect the brown and blue wires and tape them indivually and then together so they don't short out on anything. Put the cover back on an you are good to go. You do need to close off the slotted cover so air doesn't blow back as you can get a small back feed. I don't get a high temp on the unused fan as that was one of my concerns.
Now I have a spare fan incase I ever have a failure and I have more control of the air. I'm using that less elect. and that's a plus also not that the fan used much.
The only reason I can figure they installed two fans was to move the air volume to get the OPTIMUM btu's under optimum burn conditions for there ratings. I haven't seen the test conditions but I remember Nofossel saying something about the test and I don't run my boiler like that. Even though I have 2200gals of storage I still want to burn as efficient a burn as posible and not blow a lot of hot air out the chimney. Right now my stack temp runs around 300 to up to 350 most of the time up to 400 if I use alot of really dry small wood but then I would cut down on the air as I think 325 is getting the most btu's and keeping the stack hot.
leaddog

 

[Dave T]

Leaddog,
Thanks for the info on how easy the electrical connections are, cause I 'll be right behind you and plan to unhook one of my fans to,
good to hear it works..Dave

 

[taxidermist]

I too un hooked my fan on my 60 and all is well Now 1 fan and 1 nozzle and still burning good.

 

[flyingcow]

Leaddog,
How big is your house that you need such a large unit w/2200gals of storage? Just curious sometimes I think I might have under sized my system

 

[Duetech]

Hey you 60 and 80 users is this an "Oh-oh" here we go again thing? Mods are mods. Now you have me curious. How long are the individual nozzles in you units? Response would be appreciated. Thanks...

 

[leaddog]

Leaddog,
How big is your house that you need such a large unit w/2200gals of storage? Just curious sometimes I think I might have under sized my system

My house is a 30x56ft tri level in the open with alot of wind. It was build in 1975 by a builder that didn't listen to his dad and put in too many steps, windows, and not enough insulation. He thought cathedral ceilings large windows over looking my lake would be cool. Well cool is right. The roof is 4in foam panels and there is way to many steps going up and down for a old man but not when you are young and a goer.
I heat my dhw and a hot tub year round. and going to hook up my water bed soon.
My 4 propane tanks are stacked on end in a 5x16ft addition on the back of the house which helps insulate the back end and is out of sight and looks well with the house. They are VERY well insulated. double or triple walled 4in freezer panels with fiberglass and blown to fill the cavities.
The eko-80 is in a shed 100ft away by my barn and the runs are double 1in pex double wrapped with bubblewrap encased in a 6in pvc pipe within 12in concrete culvert with 3in of pourable urathane foam.
Yes the eko-80 is large but I wanted to be able to burn longer wood as I cut my own wood from my wood lot and all the small stuff I like to cut long like 30in. Less handleing and cutting. With 2200gals of storage I'm not tied down to the stove. With the storage on the end of the house it warms the coldest part of the house and since there is hardly any loss I won't have to build a fire only once a week or less in the summer.
I'm not sure that I get that much more btu's per hour over the 60 but I can load more wood so that is a plus. There is a down side though: When you put a full load of cold wood in it and have about 80gals of boiler water it takes time to start putting out much heat as it has to heat up all that wood and water. It does make starting from a cold start alittle harder as they work best at 170 plus. I now have a modulating valve instaled controled with a temp controller and that is working out very well making it easier to control output.
Over the years I have had a oil boiler, propane boiler, indoor wood boiler, homemade HASSA boiler, homemade OWB and my now eko-80 with 1300gals of open storage last year to now 2200gals of closed storage. I've learned alot from experience but more from this site. I could have saved alot of money if I would of known what I know now but I've had a lot of fun expermenting.
peach pits, wood chips, and homemade bio logs are on the horizon plus I keep going to yardsales and auctions and keep geting to many projects so as long as I'm able I should have something to do.
But for me it has worked out very well
leaddog

 

[taxidermist]

Hey you 60 and 80 users is this an "Oh-oh" here we go again thing? Mods are mods. Now you have me curious. How long are the individual nozzles in you units? Response would be appreciated. Thanks...

I cant measure right now I would melt my tape but I would in the 60 they are about 8to12 inches long. With two fans going and only 1 nozzle I get a lot of bridging so I killed one fan and am trying that.

 

[Duetech]

Thanks for the response taxidermist. My situation is about the same. I'm heating right now and don't want to cool the boiler down for a specific measurement. The slot in my 40 looks to be about 12" too. I was just wondering if there was something I could do to trim the size of my nozzle and force a more even burn through it. In each nozzle do you have one or two secondary air ports per side? Thanks...

For those of you who have done the radical and disconnected one of your blowers I was wondering what changes you have seen in your systems? I get a little more "coals build up" in my U blocks with my lower blower settings but I generally recycle the live ones into the upper chamber as that cuts down on ash output. During the day I am burning some catalpa a guy donated to me (1 1/4 face cord) for burn analysis and his wood business. On the Chimney Sweep chart the catalpa is just a little better than pine for btu out put and lasts about the same. It would probably be good "shoulder season" wood or storage or boiler baby sitting wood. I have adjusted my blower setting to 5/8" open my primary to 5mm and my secondary to 1.75 turns and am getting 4 1/2-6 hours with the catalpa during the day. 9 hrs with bl. walnut.

 

[taxidermist]

Cave,

I just measured them and the are about 9 3 long and I belive they have 2 holes in each. Since I went to 1 blower and blocked off the 2nd nozzle all I get is fly ash and a wicked looking burn. I have noticed that now when I turn my secondary adjustments I get change in my flame now where befor very lilltl change.


Rob

 

[Duetech]

Thanks for the information taxidermist. Sounds like a really good and hot burn . Are your storage cycles the same or does it take a little more/less time?

 

[taxidermist]

I hav not noticed a difference with storage times but I havent been comparing apples to apples yet because I have changed to many things at once.

 

[Sizzler]

I figured I'd give it a whirl so this A.M I cut power to one fan and blocked off the rear nozzle before building my daily fire. Been getting lots of smoke out the chimney during most of the burn and scaling on the walls of my lower chamber so this was a desperation attempt to remedy the situation since I have tried about every possible air setting combination and still cant seem to fix my smoke issue.

I was surprised to see the tank rise from 140-180 in about five hours which is comparable to a two nozzle burn and we are in the single digits here today. Also, as Taxidermist mentioned, I also was able to dial in a nice tight blue flame when turning the secondary air screws (3 turns out seemed to be the sweet spot). Previously, turning on the screws had little affect on the flame... hmm? I'm running my blower at 50% power with the fan shutter wide open. Primary's are at 10mm.

Still getting smoke out the chimney with this setup but I seemed to have used less wood to get the tank to temp. I'll need a few more days of observation before I can know for sure.

 

[Duetech]

Hi Sizzler,
(Previously, turning on the screws had little affect on the flame… hmm? I’m running my blower at 50% power with the fan shutter wide open. Primary’s are at 10mm. Still getting smoke out the chimney with this setup but I seemed to have used less wood to get the tank to temp.)

I only have a 40 so I am not attempting to tell you what to do but I would suggest you try backing your primaries down a little farther. The smoke you are getting is from unburned fuel. Once the oxygen is depleted from your mix carbon dioxide and other unburned fuels will exit as smoke. I can't cut my blower speed so I have to cut the blower opening and I'm now at 1/2". Primary is at 5-6mm and secondary shy at a rough 2. My flame still jets and I get the heat I need. If I need more flame I can now basically just adjust the blower setting. I am burning catalpa during the day and bl. walnut at night and don't have to make adjustments unless there is a moisture issue.

Any how...try setting your blower opening to about half way or less (see leaddog's settings at the top of this post) and your primary at around 7-8 to start and move your secondary to 1 1/2 turns. Might be too lean but you will be starting from the right end of the burn ratio to get a good mix on the primary. My blower puts out so much air it is easy for the secondaries to blow holes in the flame (actually got down to see it) at higher settings and not get the hottest flame. The primary mix is most important so don't adjust the secondaries up until you have adjusted the primary to a good hot flame. If you can't get a blue flame at that setting and it is mostly orange THEN boost the secondary to get color. If the flame is soft or lazy and not jetting boost the blower a little. I guess what I am trying to say is "building from the bottom is the quickest way to find your mix limits." Just $.02

 

[Sizzler]

Thank you for the advice Cave2K. I will give that a try tomorrow morning. I'm getting real good at removing the front panel if you know what I mean:>)

I have been slowly opening and closing my primaries for the past week or so without much change. I had them shut down to around your suggested settings at one point but I was unaware then that both my secondary tubes had backed themselves out, and the four holes in the tubes were all out of line with the holes in the refractory. I have since tapped them back in place and lined up the holes. I had to turn the left tube a bit to get it to line up properly. I used a flashlight and a stiff piece of wire with a short 90 on one end to assure proper alignment. Suprisingly enough, I was still getting decent heat from the boiler at that point but It smoked like a OWB at times.

 

[Duetech]

That's not the first I have heard of shifting tubes. Since getting an external primary air adjuster I don't have to remove the front panel but I did remove it a lot before then so I know what you mean. (Dean Zook has some pic's up of external adjusters he has built that are a real easy and effective mod to do.) One of the things I have found with the blower(s) and fine tuning is to turn the blower way down like only 1/2" open (IMPORTANT: adjust for the strength of your flame as you don't want a lazy flame) and the tuning process will go much smoother.

 

[sdrobertson]

I only have a 40 so I am not attempting to tell you what to do but I would suggest you try backing your primaries down a little farther. The smoke you are getting is from unburned fuel. Once the oxygen is depleted from your mix carbon dioxide and other unburned fuels will exit as smoke. I can't cut my blower speed so I have to cut the blower opening and I'm now at 1/2". Primary is at 5-6mm and secondary shy at a rough 2. My flame still jets and I get the heat I need. If I need more flame I can now basically just adjust the blower setting.

Any how...try setting your blower opening to about half way or less (see leaddog's settings at the top of this post) and your primary at around 7-8 to start and move your secondary to 1 1/2 turns. Might be too lean but you will be starting from the right end of the burn ratio to get a good mix on the primary. My blower puts out so much air it is easy for the secondaries to blow holes in the flame (actually got down to see it) at higher settings and not get the hottest flame. The primary mix is most important so don't adjust the secondaries up until you have adjusted the primary to a good hot flame. If you can't get a blue flame at that setting and it is mostly orange THEN boost the secondary to get color. If the flame is soft or lazy and not jetting boost the blower a little. I guess what I am trying to say is "building from the bottom is the quickest way to find your mix limits." Just $.02

As I burn more and make the recommended changes, I'm finally starting to pull my head out of someplace and understanding what you are saying Cave2k. With the old controller its not possible to slow down the fans so all I could do was close the fan openings. I moved the primary's to 8mm and the secondary's to 3.5 turns and got a pretty good burn(I thought) and was pleased with the change and the decrease usage of wood with the increased heat output. Last night I shut down to one fan and left the settings were they were at which has the same effect as turning down the controller to 50%. What I finally had was the decrease in "pressure" and the same "air volume" that you are talking about. I now have the primary's at 8mm and the secondary's at 2 1/2 turns out and with every turn of the secondary I see more changes. I'll keep playing with the secondary's and its fun again to tune. What I had before is when I shut the primary's down to eliminate the smoke from the chimney even when I had good gasification, all I did was send more air through the secondary's which would increase the pocket building around the nozzles which would then send me out of gasification. I would then turn down the secondary's but this would not really help because I was still sending to much air through the nozzles which then would send some air up into the top chamber creating pockets and I still had to stir the fire every once in a while to keep the pockets filled in. With one fan off, I'm decreasing the amount of air being sent through both the primary's and secondary's which allows more fine tuning. I'm finally getting the idea that if the unit is not burning right, more and faster flowing air is not the answer as this makes changing anything impossible to control properly. I'm still thinking OWB burning and slowly learning to burn wood in a efficient way.

 

[Duetech]

Wish I could say it was automatic for me but it wasn't. Wish I had a new controller but I didn't get one for Christmas. Guess I'll have to work on that too. Then I'd like to get one of the newer nozzles with the multiple 10mm offset secondary openings and of course my boiler and water storage/wood storage shed. These things are a lot more fun than an oil burner. I'm just concerned that when the "fun" has gotten to where it is just amusing that I still have some hair left. Glad it's working for you.....

 

[dzook]

I unhooked one of the blowers on my eko 60 today and am very happy with the results.

 

[Duetech]

JUst wondering dean. Have you blocked one of your nozzles?

 

[dzook]

no I'm running with both nozzels open. In the past before my storage tanks I blocked one nozzel with ok results coulnt get perfect burns. I was running the pressure fans at no more than half open normally so I figuren one fan wide open should work.

I have been running today with the fan full open and have been playing around with the primary and secondary air. For the most part I have been running with the same settings as before. I have seen different coming thru in the eko 60. with some of the ones being shipping currently have a smaller fan than the model I have which is a few years old. The fans look much smaller and the max air opening being smaller as well

An eko 60 installation I visited a few weeks ago the fans were not pushing near as much air as mine. We had both fans olmost fully open with 3/8 primary setting and 3-4 runs on secondary with great flame

 

[Duetech]

I didn't know that about the smaller blowers on the newer 60's but it makes sense with all the variances in posted settings. The newer controller with blower speed adjustment is an indication that the mfg thought there was a need for flexibility but that was the only change I had heard of them doing. I think the improvements are great though. Hopefully the newer nozzle configuration will be available as an after market tweak.

 

[leaddog]

As mentioned in another thread by Eric, when you unhook one fan connect it with a switch so you can turn it on if you chose to. I'm going to go do that. Thanks Eric.
leaddog

 

[taxidermist]

I dinked with my 60 on and off today and with 1 fan the front nozzle blocked off and fan set at 50 percent fan shutter fully open I could screw my secondary screws in tight and get good gasafication still?? If i opened the left screw it changed the flame, if I only moved the right screw no change? This did not make sense??? I will tinker some more in the AM


I should have just bought a race car they tune way more easy! LOL

 

[sled_mack]

Well, I just had to try this too. I just tried it last night. My first impression was not much of a difference other than a longer burn time. Today, I closed the primaries a bit more (didn't measure where they are at, it was a bit hot!) and that seemed to help make more of a difference. I had the primaries around 11 or 12 mm before, so now should be 8 or 9 judging by how far I moved them.

I'm now running one fan, fan shutter at about 50% open, and about 1.5 turns open on the secondaries. I've got the old controller, so no speed control. And, I've got both nozzles open.

With all the storage I have, I'm wondering if blocking a nozzle will help. I rarely get into an idle situation, so I don't see the need for blocking a nozzle. Am I missing something?

For those who have blocked a nozzle, how has that affected the loading of wood in the upper chamber? It seems like bridging would be much more of a problem unless you have shorter wood.

 

[Duetech]

I dinked with my 60 on and off today and with 1 fan the front nozzle blocked off and fan set at 50 percent fan shutter fully open I could screw my secondary screws in tight and get good gasification still?? If i opened the left screw it changed the flame, if I only moved the right screw no change? This did not make sense??? I will tinker some more in the AM
I should have just bought a race car they tune way more easy! LOL

Sounds like a shifted secondary tube and/or like there is air leaking around the tubes going into the ceramics?
Just like a race car though, the "tinker" in the "tune" is best appreciated in the drive. Hey here's a new idea for an old sport...gasification race cars.........