EKO upper door/High temp Silicone Seal

[Duetech]

Hi all,
I'm in the midst of my summer burn scenario. No storage and small daily fires for dhw. It's a bad upper chamber creosote and door seal combo. Thanks to the suggestion of others dealing with door seal/smoke issues I have worked up what seems to be a solution.

My major problem is creostoe soaking into the fiberglass seal on the door which ends up making the seal hard and eventually denegrates seal efficiency (evidenced by leaking) and recently (two months ago) I had to replace the door seal which makes the fourth seal replacement in <3 years. I have tried a number of door seal lubricants but they only work for a little while and then the seal hardens and integrity takes a hike. I have reused the original seal after cleaning and am now on it's third use. I also have a second seal I bought and need to clean.

The original seal has lost a lot of it's bulk and strength but now I use it as a back-up/fill for the silicone approach which is a simple replacement technique. Which is... Cement and pack in the seal which is now below the lip of the door seal groove. Fill in the remainig open area of the groove with High temp silicone until the door seal groove is flush with the edge of the door. Immediately place strips of aluminum foil, wide enough to cover the seal face, on the exposed high temp silicone. Grease the boiler opening lip, where the boiler comes in to contact with the door seal. Back the door hinge bolts out at least one full turn. Install the upper door BUT DO NOT TIGHTEN! Only allow the handle clamp plate to come in contact with the boiler lock plate to confirm alignment of the door. If the seal comes incontact with the boiler all the way around let the door set for about an hour to allow the silicone to start curing. Otherwise you need to adjust the door hinges until the seal comes in to full contact. Re-lubing the seal during boiler use is still necessary but I find by lubing the boiler lip instead of just the door seal helps reduce the creosote buildup at the boiler door lip and makes for easier cleaning of the lip. Once the boiler is in use use thick (I use rubber gloves) gloves to apply the grease to avoid burning your hand and fingers. Clean around the boiler lip frequently to remove creosote build up. I use white lithium grease to lube the boiler lip but other greases would probably work. Just don't cover the front of the boiler in grease.

The cured silicone/aluminum foil seal does not take a lot of pressure to seal (but is strong enough to allow you to lock the door so it seals) and it seals air tight but don't over tighten the seal or it may wear out early. To replace a worn silicone seal simply cut away the aluminum foil stripping (Not the whole seal but shallow cutting jsut to remove the foil if there is any left) to where you are working with clean silicone and re-apply some silicone to re-fill the gap you just made and re-face with new foil. The foil is only needed when first making the seal. As long as you are lubing the boiler lip the cured silicone will work without the foil if some comes off during use. You don't need to replace the seal every time a little foil comes off. Re-grease the lip of the boiler and you should be ready to go. No waiting for the cure but don't reef on the door handle. Remember to lube the door lip frequently or the creosote may stick to the silicone and end up ripping the silicone out in chunks. My current seal has been in use for two months and is made of the 500* silicone (the store was out of the 700* when I went to buy so I used the 500 and it's working fine) and is working fine eeeeven after a "huff" 8-/ left the flapper plate partially open.

This should work for those with in home units and door smoke leaks too. Sorry for the length..Cave2k

 

[DaveBP]

Have you tried any of the various brands of thread 'never seize'? The small cans come with a short brush attached to the lid that would keep your fingers from burning and they come in different grades that can take some very high temps.
For that matter I wonder if you could saturate a new fiberglass gasket with the stuff with some finger massage. No idea how it would react with the creosote but might make it last longer. I've considered doing it to my Tarm door gaskets as a speculative improvement.

 

[Duetech]

DaveBP,
Never thried the brush on stuff but I like the idea. I have totally saturated a fiberglass seal with wd and various sprays and with grease and had the best results with the gease. The fiberglass gasket always absorbs creosote. The silicone will not absorb the creosote. Relpacement fiberglass seals are around $20 plus the cement to hold them in place. They are also only available from a very limited source. The silicone is readily available at a number of stores and far less expensive (if it holds up). The results I have had with the silicone have been excellent where I have had to tinker with the hinge bolts even with a new gasket. Now if the seal goes bad I can re-face it or build a new one to the exact dimensions of the gasket I am replacing when it was new. and have the confidence that it won't leak. Brush on grease is definitely the way to go though. Thanks for the idea Dave.

 

[pybyr]

I suggest working silicone grease into the fiberglass gasketing-- Dow Corning #4 electrical insulating grease is rated as good to 400 degrees F.

Or, I wonder about simply using silicone gasketing strip instead of the fiberglass?
(go to McMaster.com )

 

[Gooserider]

FWIW, when I was up in Bangor for the boiler show a while back, the guys at the EKO booth had some new gasketting that they said they would be offering soon - it looked like a rubber coated version of the fiberglass stuff, and was supposed to solve the creosote buildup issue.... Might be worth talking to the EKO folks to see if they are doing the new gaskets yet..

Gooserider

 

[Duetech]

Gooserider, I heard talk of that new EKO gasket too but have not seen it. I think it odd that we in the U.S. seem to have the loudest complaint with the leaky gasket. As well I think it negligent or at least indifferent when the company makes a more suitable product and doesn't do much to let their public know. I would like to see their solution as I know nothing is apt to be a permanent solution. The approach I am now using shows better results than the original gasket though.

pybyr, My experience with fiberglass is that anything I put on it just blends with the creosote and eventually gets displaced by it and the problem is only delayed. (But then in some regard facing the gasket with silicone is just another delay. It is also a quicker fix once installed). The silicone high temp caulk/glue is impervious to absorption of the liquid creosote especially when overlaid with aluminum foil. Both types of seal require frequent re-application of what ever lubricant you use (I have found white lithium grease to be the best so far). The post header was just to relay my findings with a silicone seal which are: lower costs, greater efficiency/seal, ease of maintenance and ease of repair. Silicone grease could be a good step up over lithium grease so thanks for the in put.

 

[Gooserider]

Cave, I think there are a couple issues involved... I was talking w/ Lukasz Orlanski, who is the son of the company's founder and is now running EKO's US import business... He said that the US market does different things than EU, so they have been finding problems over here that didn't happen over there - For instance you are doing small daily fires because you don't have storage or an alternative water heater for low demand periods. In the EU, the standard install is w/ storage, and people tend to have other methods of heating in low demand periods, so they don't have the creosote problems that you are experiencing.

The second issue is he said this was a new gasket material, and that they were still in the process of testing it, as he didn't want to start using it until he was satisfied that it was sufficiently durable... I'm not sure what the status is on that, or if he would be interested in having any "beta testers" - which is why I suggested you contact EKO directly...

Gooserider

 

[Duetech]

Gooserider,
Thanks for the information. I know I am not the only one with small daily fires for dhw as I have read responses in other posts. My post was to let people know what I had found with the silicone. Things are moving slow for me with the storage as I am just starting to get my footing after a 7 month illness and the economy doesn't appear to be abundantly permissive though storage is still my goal. In the mean time I will use the EKO as I am because I have no choice. On the other hand I am at a loss for informtion and would like to ask you for the link to contact EKO directly.??? Thanks for your input...

 

[Gooserider]

Gooserider,
Thanks for the information. I know I am not the only one with small daily fires for dhw as I have read responses in other posts. My post was to let people know what I had found with the silicone. Things are moving slow for me with the storage as I am just starting to get my footing after a 7 month illness and the economy doesn't appear to be abundantly permissive though storage is still my goal. In the mean time I will use the EKO as I am because I have no choice. On the other hand I am at a loss for informtion and would like to ask you for the link to contact EKO directly.??? Thanks for your input...

Website - (broken link removed)

Lukasz Orlanski - Lukasz <at> eco-orlan <dot> net (I don't usually give out peoples E-mails, but he puts it on his business cards...)

Gooserider

 

[Duetech]

Thanks Gooserider. I have sent them an e-mail so now the ball is in their hands.

 

[sfriedri]

FWIW, when I was up in Bangor for the boiler show a while back, the guys at the EKO booth had some new gasketting that they said they would be offering soon - it looked like a rubber coated version of the fiberglass stuff, and was supposed to solve the creosote buildup issue.... Might be worth talking to the EKO folks to see if they are doing the new gaskets yet..

Gooserider

This product sounds similar to something I linked to in an earlier thread on this issue (https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewreply/297675/)

A direct link to the product info is here: (broken link removed to http://www.davlyn.com/products/product.php?id=6)

One of you guys in the US should try giving this company a call to see what the product costs and who retails it. This past winter I just used high-temp silicone layered over the EKO supplied fiberglass rope, and it worked OK. But if there was a commercial product available I would just order a bunch of the stuff so that I had few years supply on hand.

 

[Tree farmer]

Cave,
I feel for your frustration as you gave me insight to frig around with my gasket when I started running this past year. With that said I talked with my retailer and he was able to get a hold of some silicone wrapped heavy duty gasket (looks like a sausage and is actually round) and I ripped out that old gasket and installed about middle of Jan. It worked like a charm as the gasket does not absorb the creosote, stays flexible and the silicone skin seals around the door tight. I was told it was designed for an outdoor boiler. So far it has worked well but the true test will be this next season. I don't know who you got your boiler through but I would contact Zenon. This has been an issue for some and should have been addressed by Orland before now - this is disappointing as we should not have to screw around with the gasket, especially for the investment we made in an otherwise excellent product. Seems to only happen to some though so go figure.

 

[Medman]

Looks like Davlyn is the only manufacturer of this product. Anyone know of any dealers or cost of product?
Would it be possible to replicate this at home using high-temp silicone and knitted fiberglass rope?

I'm looking for a solution to this problem too.

 

[pabloinvt]

I do not have a seal problem on my biasi but had a sticking problem from creosote buildup when idling. My simple solution was to lube my gasket with "Anti-Seize" lube, the kind for threads on bolts. Just one application and sticking is gone and the creosote seems not to adhere to the anti-seize. It is rated for about 1650 degrees or so.

 

[Duetech]

Where sticky bolts are concerned I wouldn't have waisted a second getting the antiseize. Never thought about using it on the gasket especially since the creosote soaks into the gasket then hardens. The silicone approach I am using has been doing fine especially treated with white lithium grease but now I may be changing lubes. Thanks for the tip.

Tree farmer. ("I feel for your frustration") There was really no frustration. I just thought that replacing the gasket was one of the things we had to do to use the "idle burn" technique. The silicone gasket trick is working really well and I just wanted to share my new found success with others that were in the "idle mode". I did send out for some information (see Gooserider above) on the newer EKO silicone gasket and the wholesale company I queried sent me an e-mail jiffy quick but the supliers he contacted to e-mail me with parts never contacted me. Since my gasket is working so well I don't think I need to hear from them. Once agin it's the "forum to the rescue". Cool..

 

[solarguy]

As a dealer here in NH I can say that the silicon gasket works. I've had one of my 40 for about 3 months.
If you're looking for/need a gasket contact Mark @ Ahona.


Bob

 

[Blennophobic]

I'm looking at getting some of the silicone rope gasket. I comes in different diameters and I was wondering what you folks found fit the best... 1"??
Thanks,

 

[barnartist]

How much does this gasket cost?

I leak a good bit right now, but since my boiler is outside it has not been a top priority.

My Eko's door does not seat well around the framed opening of the chamber. It sits in such a way that the handle used to clamp the door shut tight barely gets enough grip of that little peice of metal. I suppose that when I ever replace the gasket,I will be able to properly put the door where it needs to be.

 

[in hot water]

The "rope" is probably 1" od. With the red silicone it measures about 1-1/8"

This is what cuts off the piece that Zenon sent me.

I'd remove the door and lie it on it's back, it takes a bit of force to get it into the groove. A little WD-40 helps, and a block of wood to drive it in.

It does solve the smoke problem. You may have to re-adjust the door hindge to get it to close, and also get the alignment around the opening perfect. My first attempt smoked worse than the old gasket until I re-aligned the door.

Heavy little bugger, that door

hr

 

[Blennophobic]

The "rope" is probably 1" od. With the red silicone it measures about 1-1/8"

Thanks a lot.

Yes those doors are solid alright. I've had mine off twice now trying to adjust it with no luck. Currently, my upper handle sits at the 5 o'clock position when tight, which is really rotated too far because there isn't much catch left on the cam. When I move the hinges in by 1 thread, it's too tight to close. I'm hoping this silicone rope will solve my issues.

B.

 

[in hot water]

keep some grease on that cam also and it latches and snugs up much easier.

I'd like to see a bit wider sealing flange on the boiler opening. I thought about adding a second strip on that opening, but the new gasket worked fine.

hr

 

[barnartist]

I'd still like to hear a price on that stuff.

I also have very little "rim" left when I tighten down. My hope is I 'll gain some back if the door can be moved to the right a bit when breaking in a new gasket.

 

[Duetech]

Just to let everyone know. I am still on the same home made silicone seal that I made and used when I started this post. Have not yet tried the anti sieze compound but am still using up my spray can of white lithium grease. The aluminum strips I thought were so important initially ended up only being necessary to keep the door opening lip from sealing to the uncured hi-temp silicone sealant while making a shallow impression. That was only done to get the boiler up and running sooner but if desiredthe door can be taken off of the boiler and the silicone applied and allowed to cure before re-installing the door. As far as the upper door seal is concerned I have the seal I need. Now to find something for the lower door seal and the fly ash problem....