empyre pro 200. possible leak?

[firecaptain]

i have an empyre pro 200 outdoor gasser. this afternoon i noticed the water level was down a little.
i have had it for 4 winters now. no problems whatsoever.

so i went out to clean the secondary chamber and when i opened the door, maybe a half a cup of water came out. or maybe condensation. it has been bitterly cold her for 2 months, and the past day or two we have got back above freezing to a high of 60! today. could my water loss have something to do with the quick warm up? i looked at my piping and around the stove outside, no visible water leaks. no leaks inside on my plumbing anywhere.

i plan on doing a more detailed inspection tomorow to see if i can find any leaks. anybody ever taken the sheet metal of an empyre? if so how do you start?

also, if i do have a small leak, any ideas how to do a quick fix to finish out the last month or so of winter? besides shutting down, draining, and welding?

im just wondering if the quick warm up in weather has anything to do with it.

just some side notes. i do check water and add additive as needed to keep it in check. i have no rust in my filter inside.

any yhoughts would be great, or tips.

thanks.

 

[velvetfoot]

I don't have first hand experience, but I do remember seeing this thread:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/empyre-elite-boiler-corrosion.104788/

 

[firecaptain]

so today i started with the basics. took outside covering off and looked for wet insulation. dry as a bone.
next took off the access door to heat exchanger: just fine DRY gray ash.
check all the external structure of the firebox and water jacket. looks good.
now im getting a little concerned.
so i get a shovel and shovel out all the embers and ash out of the fire box. and looky there! steam!

so i start cleaning real good and find that right below the firebox door there is a slight triclke of water. found it.
so now i know where my problem is. and of course i have more questions. naturally right? lol

how do you remove the refractory/ fire bricks from the burn chamber? asi can see i will have to take them out to get this fixed. luckily a friend of mine has a welding business and weld on the pipelines so i dont think it will be an issue to get some weldding done. i can weld, but im no professional. rookie at best lol.

and lastly, does anyone know where i can get fire brick/ refractory to replace the ones that are damaged and the ones im sure i will break in the process?
they appear to be about 3" thick and maybe 3 x 6 rectangular.

any info would be great. thanks guys

ps. luckily for my situation i have backup electric heat, but i hate to pay for it. oh well you gotta do what you gotta do i guess.

 

[mustash29]

If you purchased this boiler new, contact your dealer or ProFab directly. The leak should be covered under warranty, providing you have been sending them your water samples. I believe annual is their minimum requirement.

How is your piping hooked up? Are you running a Danfoss or equivalent thermostatic recirc valve to prevent cold return water from hitting the boiler? These were generally not used on the earlier installations. After a lot of warranty claims, they are now "required" accessories for a proper installation. A new install without low temp return protection may void the warranty. They are available in 1" and 1.25" piping sizes:

http://ecomfort.com/empyre-elite-pro-1-1-4-pipe-system-optimizer-outdoor-use-92359.html

You don't necessarily need that exact asembly, as long as you have a recirc loop with the Danfoss valve installed in it.

From reading the various threads around here concerning the ProFab boilers, of those that have had corrosion issues, some have good stories and some have bad ones. The difference seems to boil down to if the dealer was a good one or a bad one.

I have a used Elite 100 indoor model that I picked it up last fall for about 35% of original cost but it is not hooked up and running yet. The original owner had a leak after a year or 2. The unit was removed, shipped back to the factory, and completely refurbished, stainless fire box liner installed, all new refractory, door gaskets, etc, and returned to the home owner. It looks brand new in all respects. The guy sold his house. The buyer had no interest in the wood boiler and put it up on Craigslist, so I got it for a steal.

Having only looked at the online pdf's of the Pro series, I am not sure exactly how they look inside. My thoughts are that if you try to repair it yourself, you may have difficulty removing the refractory without damaging it somewhat. Replacement blocks should be available via a dealer or directly from ProFab.

There are castable refractory mixes out there for repairs. Some have used them to repair damage and erosion to the nozzel in other boilers. Think "bag of cement powder" that you mix with water and trowel into place and let it cure.

Keep us updated. There are lots of folks on Hearth with good ideas and lots of usefull help available.

 

[mikedbrrew]

If you purchased this boiler new, contact your dealer or ProFab directly. The leak should be covered under warranty, providing you have been sending them your water samples. I believe annual is their minimum requirement.

How is your piping hooked up? Are you running a Danfoss or equivalent thermostatic recirc valve to prevent cold return water from hitting the boiler? These were generally not used on the earlier installations. After a lot of warranty claims, they are now "required" accessories for a proper installation. A new install without low temp return protection may void the warranty. They are available in 1" and 1.25" piping sizes:

http://ecomfort.com/empyre-elite-pro-1-1-4-pipe-system-optimizer-outdoor-use-92359.html

You don't necessarily need that exact asembly, as long as you have a recirc loop with the Danfoss valve installed in it.

From reading the various threads around here concerning the ProFab boilers, of those that have had corrosion issues, some have good stories and some have bad ones. The difference seems to boil down to if the dealer was a good one or a bad one.

I have a used Elite 100 indoor model that I picked it up last fall for about 35% of original cost but it is not hooked up and running yet. The original owner had a leak after a year or 2. The unit was removed, shipped back to the factory, and completely refurbished, stainless fire box liner installed, all new refractory, door gaskets, etc, and returned to the home owner. It looks brand new in all respects. The guy sold his house. The buyer had no interest in the wood boiler and put it up on Craigslist, so I got it for a steal.

Having only looked at the online pdf's of the Pro series, I am not sure exactly how they look inside. My thoughts are that if you try to repair it yourself, you may have difficulty removing the refractory without damaging it somewhat. Replacement blocks should be available via a dealer or directly from ProFab.

There are castable refractory mixes out there for repairs. Some have used them to repair damage and erosion to the nozzel in other boilers. Think "bag of cement powder" that you mix with water and trowel into place and let it cure.

Keep us updated. There are lots of folks on Hearth with good ideas and lots of usefull help available.

I have an elite 100 and going through the process of warranty which my fire box leaks, on my 3rd year the fire brick can be purchased at concrete companies or where they make chimney block only the nozzle has to be purchased through your dealer

 

[treefrog359]

so today i started with the basics. took outside covering off and looked for wet insulation. dry as a bone.
next took off the access door to heat exchanger: just fine DRY gray ash.
check all the external structure of the firebox and water jacket. looks good.
now im getting a little concerned.
so i get a shovel and shovel out all the embers and ash out of the fire box. and looky there! steam!

so i start cleaning real good and find that right below the firebox door there is a slight triclke of water. found it.
so now i know where my problem is. and of course i have more questions. naturally right? lol

how do you remove the refractory/ fire bricks from the burn chamber? asi can see i will have to take them out to get this fixed. luckily a friend of mine has a welding business and weld on the pipelines so i dont think it will be an issue to get some weldding done. i can weld, but im no professional. rookie at best lol.

and lastly, does anyone know where i can get fire brick/ refractory to replace the ones that are damaged and the ones im sure i will break in the process?
they appear to be about 3" thick and maybe 3 x 6 rectangular.

any info would be great. thanks guys

ps. luckily for my situation i have backup electric heat, but i hate to pay for it. oh well you gotta do what you gotta do i guess.

call pro fab ( 204 364 2211) ask for ben tell him your problem. you have to start at the top and remove all the bricks and work your way down. been there done that. I am on stove #2 and I will be surprised if it makes it the rest of the winter. this one is a SS unit too.

 

[Deepwoodsman1972]

You want the real scoop? Profab is horrible at honoring the fine lines in their warranty. So be prepared. I had a multitude of problems with my 100. After months of back and forth they finally sent me a refurbished one because mine leaked and it was a pain cleaning out the lower duct work.

Here's the real truth. They had major problems with version one. The should have just recalled them. I think version one is serial numbers around 600 or less. They will ship you a refurbished one once you groan continuously. They know there is an issue. Then they will tell you you need a Danfoss valve installed or they won't continue to honor the warranty. However, they never mentioned this in the original paperwork you got with your first boiler. So when all is said and done you'll be out $1200 or more to pay someone to switch it out and pay for the Danfoss valve upgrade.

Does their warranty state labor and material replacement? Sure does in the first year but when it really comes down to it you are on your own for anything but the unit.

The new one has been in for several months but I still have concerns with it. Bottom line I would stay away from profab.