englander 12-FP stove air control question

[cdodge04]

Hi guys,
I've been cruising through the forum since the spring and reading up on different topics. I just got my woodstove set up and started my first fire tonight! I've grown up with a wood stove in the house but this is my first house and my first wood stove of this kind. I have attached a photo so those of you unfamiliar with the stove can get a general idea of the question I'm about to ask...

My main problem with the stove thus far has been being able to completely control the stove. I bought one of those handy dandy thermostats that you stick directly on the stove pipe via magnet. I can't seem to keep the stove up out of the "Creasalt" range. I'm trying to figure out exactly how to use the air controller and the damper effectively. All othe stoves that I have had havent had the air controller, just the damper on the pipe.

Anyone have any advice?

Thanks much,
Chad

 

[Tfin]

That looks like the 12, not the 13 correct? Your manual should tell you which way is "open" vs "closed" for the air control.

Basically after you've done your break in fires, in order to get the stove up to temp (at least how I do it in my 13) is to have a couple of medium size splits on the bottom with a fire starter in between them. Light the fire starter, then I criss cross kindling pieces up to the top of the fire box with another medium sized piece on the top of the pile. Leave the door cracked open until your stove top temp reaches around 250-300F, then close the door. If your wood is dry, it should take off from there and you can begin to incrementally begin to close your air control.

If your wood is less than well seasoned, you may need to keep the door cracked open a little longer.

 

[gpcollen1]

I think the issue may be the damper. That damper looks like it is a bit closed. You should be able to control the burn with just the air control. Closing the damper would be used if you had too much draft or really needed to slow the stove down. You need to let that puppy burn and then close the air down a bit at a time.

 

[cdodge04]

Hey guys thanks so much for the info. The stove is the 12-FP and not the 13.

The wood I'm using is seasoned pretty well, its been cut for about a year and a half.

I read a lot of reviews on the stove before I bought and most people complained the stove was hard to start, I haven't had that issue at all. My main problem is getting to stay at temp when I close it up. So if I'm understanding you guys correctly, when I fill the stove for the night and head for bed I should just use the air control on the front and not mess with the damper at all?

In that photo the damper is closed a bit, I took the photo while I was messing arund with the stove trying to figure out exactly where I wanted the damper and the controls set.

Thanks again for the info guys!

-Chad

 

[BrotherBart]

Well, I have to be the contrary guy here. With a 35-1 stove like the 12 I say that you leave that lower air control mostly open and control your burn with the damper. The 12 is the only 35-1 stove out there that even has an air control other than the pipe damper. Since it does not have a secondary air source in it shutting down that lower air control just chokes the fire.

 

[cdodge04]

The damper is built into the top neck of the stove.

 

[gpcollen1]

While not owning and operating your stove, I think the answer is yes. Check out the manual if you have not, it has some burning tips. I think there have been some other 12-Fp threads you could search through and maybe find some tips or other owners. And maybe edit the title of the post and put 12 in it.

http://www.englanderstoves.com/manuals/12-FP.pdf

 

[gpcollen1]

the 12 fp is not an epa stove & u may want to play with the damper i think. is the damper part of the stove or an add-on?

I would agree if he needed to slow the stove down a bit but that is not where the issue is - I don't think.

 

[cdodge04]

I scanned through the owners manual thinking that there may be something in there but it really didn't answer my questions. They didn't mention anything about the damper in the manual, they just spoke about the air controller.

 

[cdodge04]

Haha so many different opinions, I have been reading on other websites and there are 2 theories on how to use the stove. One person says use the damper and not use the air controller while others say don't worry about the damper and use air control. Who would have thought figuring out the best way to achieve a good burn over night while I'm sleeping would be so complicated!



-Chad

 

[gpcollen1]

Do some playing around. use one exclusively and then the other on another night. in addition, you may have to fine tune this when it gets a bit colder b/c it will draft a bit differently.

then again maybe not - I suppose it has been chilly in Maine lately...

 

[cdodge04]

The damper does indeed close all the way. I'll mess around until I can find a happy medium.


Thanks guys!
-Chad

 

[Tfin]

Do some playing around. use one exclusively and then the other on another night. in addition, you may have to fine tune this when it gets a bit colder b/c it will draft a bit differently.

then again maybe not - I suppose it has been chilly in Maine lately...

Yeah, this is probably the best idea then. Trial and error.....keep track of what you did and the results. You'll have it running at optimum capacity in no time.

.....and yes, it has been getting chilly here in ME.....had 31 at my place this morning. I'll be lighting my stove as soon as I get home.

 

[cdodge04]

Its been pretty darn cold the last couple of nights, we had a frost on our windows about a week ago...I'm starting to care less and less for winter.



I'll post my results as soon as I get it all figured out.

 

[Hanko]

trade it in on a 13, big difference

 

[cmonSTART]

Agreed, sell the 12 and buy a 13. you'll be glad you did. I owned that stove and worked the heck out of it for two winters. The most productive way to run it I found was to keep the air control wide open and just close the damper when the stove got up to temp. This would slow things down enough to make the stove only slightly less inefficient. If I remember correctly, I was informed just before I sold it that the damper wasn't designed to be used for combustion control, only for a chimney fire and the air control was the primary means of controlling the fire.

Last December I paid $500 for a slightly used 30NC with a blower and turned right around and sold my 12 for $250 2 days later. It was the best thing I ever did.

 

[cdodge04]

Is it the 13-NC that you guys are talking about? I looked at it at the HD website and a lot of people complained about the stoves. I had the stove going last night, stocked it full around 11:30 and still had a good bed of coals this morning at 7:15 when I got up. I'm using the stove mostly as a source of heat from 5 oclock in the afternoon until 6 or 7 in the morning. After I leave for work the house runs on oil until I get home again at 5. There are times during the week when I don't end up getting home until well after 7, in which case the stove wouldn't be started until then. If I were looking for a stove for my primary heat source I may feel a bit more pressure to pick up a different stove...

 

[cmonSTART]

Well, those folks complaining are obviously not hearth.com members. :cheese:

Run the stove you want to run. As I said, the most effective way I found to run the 12 is keep the air wide open and use the damper when it's up to temperature. But, your results may vary. This is also not the way Englander designed it to run as I understand.

 

[cdodge04]

Haha, that is true my friend!

I'll give your method a try and see how it turns out for me.

Thanks for the info!

-Chad

 

[Tfin]

Yes, the 13NC is what everyone's refering to. I've never heard a negative thing about the 13 myself. Mine works great, and I really couldn't ask any more of it.

I've heard some complaints about Englander's corn stoves, but not the 13 wood stove.

 

[cdodge04]

I'm starting to see what you guys are saying about this stove not being as good as others. I must say that it hasn't produced anywhere near as much heat as I was hoping it would. The highest my house has gotten up to is about 72 degrees. I am burning some really well seasoned wood and I have a good bed of coals the stove just doesn't seem to get that hot. My house really is not that big, it's around 900 sq ft. I'm looking into trying to off this 12-FP as I know that if the stove is having trouble heating the house when its only getting down to 40-50 at night it is going to have a really hard time when its 10 below. I'm going to take everyones advice and look into the 13-NC and also take a look at some Ashleys. My parents have a Wonderwood which works great for them so that's always an option too...I know those big box stoves don't look as nice as the ones with the glass fronts, but I'm more about heat than looking pretty when it's cold out.

-Chad

 

[stoveguy2esw]

the "flip top" damper in the collar of a 12 fp is not a draft control. it is intended to be open when the unit is in use and to be closed in the times it is not. this is to help prevent warm weather downdrafting which occurs in some homes. it is intended to be used as you would a damper plate in a fireplace chimney. to close the chimney when not in use.

 

[N/A N/A]

I just sold my 12 FP this spring. Used it for a few winters and had absolutely zero luck with it. Honestly the best way I found to burn the stove was with the door slightly cracked open. The latch can "hang" on the lip of the fire box creating a half inch air gap at the door gasket. This was the only way I could get it to burn even with the driest of wood. Be sure to check your chimney often I had three chimney fires my first year. Then I just ended up buying the brush and cleaning rods and cleaned my chimney three times a season. I honestly have no answers for you. I could not figure it out with my own 12 FP in a few years time. Sadly, I believe the stove plain just doesnt work. And thats a shame cause englander does make some good stuff. If I were you, save yourself the drama of a chimney fire or two or three and waisting all your wood and sell it or take it to the scrap yard and buy a different stove. Best luck to ya. As a side note. I dont like to be negative but their is nothing good i can say about this stove. My old Franklin was not even as good at waisting wood as this thing.

 

[cdodge04]

I called Englander today to speak to them about my situation. They said they couldn't help but that I should definitely call the place I purchased it from. I called them and low and behold they told me to bring the stove back and I could get a full refund! I asked if they had the 13-NC or the 30-NC in stock, which they did not. The gentlemen I spoke to told me to keep the 12-FP for another week or so in order to keep my house warmed and then bring it back when the next shipment came in. I guess they have a 90 day satisfaction guarentee, if within 90 days you don't like the stove, simply unhook it and bring it back!

So needless to say, over the next week I need to make my final decision between the 13-NC and the 30-NC. I dug up the property assessment on the house and found that the whole house is about 1300 sq ft. This is a bit bigger than the 900 sq ft I had thought. Though to my defense, I don't heat the back side of the house as I use that room for a work out area. There is also a second bedroom that I don't heat, so the actual heating space would be close to the 900-1000 sq ft mark.

My only worry between the 13-NC and the 30-NC is that I want to get a stove, get it in and be done with it. I'm nervous that I may pick up the 13-NC and it still won't be what I'm looking for heat wise.


Any input? Hmmm Should I make a new thread? haha

-Chad

 

[cmonSTART]

That sounds like a place you should do business with. Good stuff.

My gut feeling is go with the 13NC, and get the optional blower if you can. We have a 30NC with a blower and it heats our house sometimes a bit too well. I think in a 900sf area the 30 might be a bit overkill. But, that's just my gut feeling on the matter. I don't know how well insulated your place is.

I think it's important to remember the 12 was designed to be a pretty space heater - give you a pretty fire and provide some extra heat for the room it's in. (ESW guys correct me if I'm wrong.)