Englander 25-PDV Door Loosening When Hot

[olmec]

Hey guys,

Been an avid lurker (every night in my office (aka the bathroom)) since last sept when we started looking for stoves. As young, new home owners, electric baseboard heat and little extra money to burn, we decided to start of with the 25 PDV. Not a bad stove for under $1000! Been burning since this past Oct and its done a great job heating the house from the basement.

Starting the beginning of January, I noticed that the pellets stopped burning completely and filling the pot, as most PDV and PDVC's do. I tried sealing off the two lower burn pot holes under the plate to get more air up through. Where this did work well, It sends lots of ash up and out the flu and makes a mess of the stove.

I let it run like that for a while and noticed it still wasn't burning/keeping up with the pellets, and filling the pot. I then noticed that when the stove is up to temp and cooking; the door starts to unlatch, and can be popped open by just touching the handle. I contacted Englander and they sent out a door gasket try.

I installed the new gasket and the door was nice and snug until it started to wear in and Im back to where I was with the door. So obviously, this is due to thermal expansion, but whos fault is it?

It is a basement install and does heat the whole house (1900 SqFt ranch), runs on 9/9 with a T-stat, "C" Mode, and 4in pipe with a 4in liner up about 25ft through chimney. I average about 1 1/2 to 2 bags a day with the real cold weather. Its never over temped, and the ave box temp in the front gets to about 450-470 deg.

Anyone run into this or have heard of this happening? I know its kind of a primitive latching system compared to whats out now, but Id think it should hold up a bit better than this. Im banking on the up, and down temps from the T stat are to blame, but I don't feel bad about it as its an option. And Im doing what the manual says with settings being on 9/9.

Thanks for any help!!

 

[jim3854]

Interesting. I also have a 25 pdv and use it in C mode but have never had this problem. First ive heard of it. And Im on here alot probably to much lol

 

[olmec]

Hahaha yea me too, just reading tho. I think Ive read every post regarding the pdv and most of the pdvc's.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Let's see new in October, how many bags of pellets have you put through the stove, and in detail how do you clean the stove?

A detailed description of the vent and OAK system including pictures might also help.

 

[olmec]

Smokey,

Ive been breaking down the stove at the end of each month (roughly a ton a month), and Ill clean the pipe to the flu, the whole liner, fire box, ash traps, and inspect the blowers. Then I hook up a 1hp dust collector to the outlet of the stove and to the liner to suck out the what ever is left. Thing sounds like a hopped up C16 building boost. Ive burnt about 3 tons. I scrape the pot first thing in the morning before work, then shut it down every night to vac and chisel the crap off the auger tube. Cant get it any cleaner haha.

The vent is a 4in, 5 ft run to the liner with a T at the stove and a 90 at the liner. Then the liner is a 4in with about a 20-25 ft run.

I have an OAK installed. Just the supplied 2in kit, up 8ft to the sill. Ive tried it on and off. Makes no difference. House has its drafts.

We are probably going to get a different stove for the next season if we can swing it. Guess you get what you pay for?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

What are your settings and how about the path going from outside to the burn area.

Sounds like your stove is not able to clear the exhaust fast enough to to remove the hot stuff and as a result the metal is expanding enough to break the gasket seals.

I would adjust the latch if possible, try a slightly larger gasket, and get on the horn with ESW and tell them about the exhaust setup, and what is happening with the metal. 5 feet of horizontal isn't ideal for most stoves and the total EVL is 25 to 27.5 however I'm having great difficultly visualizing being T - 5 - 90 -vertical 20-25 feet I keep trying to add another 90. Your horizontal must also be rising 1/4" per foot.

Also start a private conversation with Mike Holton https://www.hearth.com/talk/members/stoveguy2esw.1187/

 

[olmec]

Id take a pic for ya, but Im remodeling the basement and its a bit dark. Most likely it wouldn't come out well. Its a T right off the stove, into a 4in vertical pipe that's 5ft to the 90, then a 4in 20ft run up the chimney. You had me second guessing my self so I went and measured haha. Very minimal horizontal runs. Well, the inlet for the liner does have about a 3 ft horizontal (that does have a slight positive degree) before it curves up. I didn't really think of that. But, Englanders manual says no more than 4ft horizontal and 35ft vertical. So I should be good. I do have an email into tech support as well, so we shall see. I really only notice the build up when it stays running too long on high when its really cold out, like in the neg. Its almost as if its feeding more than it can burn. I did try moving the hopper plate closed all the way too, to try and cut the feed down. Im still concerned about the door coming free tho. If there was an issue with the stove getting too hot from lack of exhaust I would have figured it would over temp. Not to mention ive been running it like this since I got it. The door latch is a wedge type, so no adjusting. Only thing you can really do is push the handle harder and I don't want to tweak it anymore than it is. Ive put a fair amount of pressure on it before after a cleaning, and it still comes free.

The only thing I can think of is, the door loosens and it loses its vacuum slightly. Resulting in the build up? Just an uneducated guess.

Thanks for the help smokey. Ive read thousands of your posts haha.

 

[doghouse]

You say you shut the stove off every night to clean it?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Id take a pic for ya, but Im remodeling the basement and its a bit dark. Most likely it wouldn't come out well. Its a T right off the stove, into a 4in vertical pipe that's 5ft to the 90, then a 4in 20ft run up the chimney. You had me second guessing my self so I went and measured haha. Very minimal horizontal runs. Well, the inlet for the liner does have about a 3 ft horizontal (that does have a slight positive degree) before it curves up. I didn't really think of that. But, Englanders manual says no more than 4ft horizontal and 35ft vertical. So I should be good. I do have an email into tech support as well, so we shall see. I really only notice the build up when it stays running too long on high when its really cold out, like in the neg. Its almost as if its feeding more than it can burn. I did try moving the hopper plate closed all the way too, to try and cut the feed down. Im still concerned about the door coming free tho. If there was an issue with the stove getting too hot from lack of exhaust I would have figured it would over temp. Not to mention ive been running it like this since I got it. The door latch is a wedge type, so no adjusting. Only thing you can really do is push the handle harder and I don't want to tweak it anymore than it is. Ive put a fair amount of pressure on it before after a cleaning, and it still comes free.

The only thing I can think of is, the door loosens and it loses its vacuum slightly. Resulting in the build up? Just an uneducated guess.

Thanks for the help smokey. Ive read thousands of your posts haha.

That is close enough as to one contributor to ash build up but the stoves air flow also keeps the stove metal from expanding by dumping the heat out the flue from one side of the heat exchanger and out into the room from the other side of the exchanger. A clean and property vented unit should not get to the point that the metal expands enough to break the seal. Which is why I'd be talking to ESW.

 

[olmec]

Doghouse,

Yea, I do it every night to clean/chisel the crap off the auger and end of the tube. Ive read a lot of people having auger motor issues from carbon build up, so I just assume take 5 mins and clean it. Otherwise, if it breaks, Im heating the house with electric at the tune of $500+ a month until parts show up. Maybe its an overkill. I don't know anyone personally with one of these stoves to ask.

 

[doghouse]

Doghouse,

Yea, I do it every night to clean/chisel the crap off the auger and end of the tube. Ive read a lot of people having auger motor issues from carbon build up, so I just assume take 5 mins and clean it. Otherwise, if it breaks, Im heating the house with electric at the tune of $500+ a month until parts show up. Maybe its an overkill. I don't know anyone personally with one of these stoves to ask.

ME. 9 years. PM me.