Englander 25 PDV tripping circuit breaker

[packerfan]

Hi all,

It's been a while since I've posted here, but I have a problem this evening. It is supposed to get around 20 below zero tonight, so I tried to fire up my pellet stove when I got home. Upon startup, everything went fine, as it did when I started it a few days ago.

Pellets ignited, as they should, then a min or 2 later my breaker was tripped and I was now getting a room full of smoke as I have an out, then up vent system. I would expect this to happen, but maybe not so much smoke if my vent system ran up then out instead.

Anyhow, I went downstairs to reset my breaker, then fired the stove back up. Pellets instantly re-ignited and stove was in start up mode, but not yet hot enough for the room fan to kick on. Then after about another min or 2 and it tripped the breaker again. Back downstairs I went to the breaker box.

Well, yes I fired it up again, and in about a min or so it was hot enough for the room fan to kick in. Stove was still in start up mode.

Of course, after a couple min it blew the breaker again. I then proceeded to unplug everything I could find that may be on the same circuit and of course fired her up again.

Once again, after a min or 2 breaker was tripped again.

Back to the basement I went to visit the breaker panel once again and say hello to the spiders yet one more time. By now I was getting a bit of a work out, going up and down the stairs, ( my fitbit must be proud of me) and my house looked like something you might see in a Cheech and Chong movie, although the smoke didn't smell as you expect from those guys. I must also say that after getting a bit heated myself from doing the stairs in my fairly round body, the 25 below zero wind chill actually was refreshing as I stood in the doorway to air out the house.

At this point I sat down to think about things for a minute, and decided that seeing as the pellets were still smoldering away in the burn pot and laughing at me, that I would disconnect the ignitor wires, so the stove wasn't drawing as much power to it.

Well, here I go I pressed the on button again to give a whirl yet one more time.

As I sat and watched the clock pass by the 2 minute mark, I was thinking maybe I'll get lucky this time because it was usually after only a min or 2 had passed that the breaker would trip. Lo and behold, I shortly passed the 5 minute mark, and shortly there after my stove kicked out of start up mode and into regular running mode.

It is now running as it should! yeah!

My questions here are the obvious.

Time for a new ignitor?
Could it be something else?
Am I ok using a gel or small torch to start the pellets until I get the situation fixed?
Has this happened to you?

I'll now say thanks in advance to anyone out there that may give me some help, this forum rocks when you have questions to ask and the people here are usually pretty helpful. Who knows, this post may even help someone in the future if they are going through the same thing.

Stay warm, gonna be a cold one around here for sure. ( speaking of cold ones, I could use one of those too )

 

[Mt Bob]

Could be the igniter,sometimes it is the wires to the igniter have rubbed through the insulation,somewhere.If it stays running,you should be fine starting it manually.

 

[packerfan]

Could be the igniter,sometimes it is the wires to the igniter have rubbed through the insulation,somewhere.If it stays running,you should be fine starting it manually.

Wouldn't that cause it to trip the breaker instantly though, rather than a couple mins later?

 

[packerfan]

Wouldn't that cause it to trip the breaker instantly though, rather than a couple mins later?

I'll give the wiring a good look though

 

[Mt Bob]

expansion and vibration.A rubbed wire can do strange stuff.If you seen nothing,try a new igniter.Lots of people like to add inline fuses to the igniter wires,where they come off the control board,to save the control board when something like this happens.

 

[jpeterson2322]

Your breaker is probably shot now also. Breakers aren't meant to be tripped that many times. Did the breaker feel warm when you reset it? Breakers are meant to have a maximum continuous load of 80% of the rated size. If the ignitor has been pushing that breaker for a while, it weakens its effectiveness and today was enough to make it fail.

 

[packerfan]

Your breaker is probably shot now also. Breakers aren't meant to be tripped that many times. Did the breaker feel warm when you reset it? Breakers are meant to have a maximum continuous load of 80% of the rated size. If the ignitor has been pushing that breaker for a while, it weakens its effectiveness and today was enough to make it fail.

Breaker wasn't warm at all.
Only the 2nd time I used the stove all winter.

 

[drizler]

You didn’t have anything large draw running on that circuit like an electric [emoji847]heater did you ? That will do it every time with mine. Don’t forget , with that electric start on you’re drawing a lot more than my rig which has none yet still pops breaker.


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[Mt Bob]

I think drizler is right,and I am wrong,the problem is in the house.Could be a weak breaker,but kinda rare.Probably a load somewhere on the curcuit,as he says,but,a loose connection,in the breaker panel,or at the outlet itself,could be the problem.

 

[drizler]

I think drizler is right,and I am wrong,the problem is in the house.Could be a weak breaker,but kinda rare.Probably a load somewhere on the curcuit,as he says,but,a loose connection,in the breaker panel,or at the outlet itself,could be the problem.

Yea you get brilliant when you’ve screwed up enough times[emoji847]. Most of those modern house circuits just wont take much draw and startup on many appliances is just enough surge to snap the breaker. Something big like a heater or with a large pump like a fridge or freezer pack a pretty big surge momentarily when they kick on. Try lightening that load and see what it does


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[Mt Bob]

Yea you get brilliant when you’ve screwed up enough times[emoji847]. Most of those modern house circuits just wont take much draw and startup on many appliances is just enough surge to snap the breaker. Something big like a heater or with a large pump like a fridge or freezer pack a pretty big surge momentarily when they kick on. Try lightening that load and see what it does


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Yea,I have seen receptacles with the push in wires make bad connection,and arc.Always best to use the screws.

 

[packerfan]

You didn’t have anything large draw running on that circuit like an electric [emoji847]heater did you ? That will do it every time with mine. Don’t forget , with that electric start on you’re drawing a lot more than my rig which has none yet still pops breaker.


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Had nothing at all with a large draw going at all. As I mentioned, I even unplugged everything on that breaker that I could just to see if that would help. Stove ran fine just a few days prior, haven't ever tripped that breaker before in the last 11 years

 

[packerfan]

I think drizler is right,and I am wrong,the problem is in the house.Could be a weak breaker,but kinda rare.Probably a load somewhere on the curcuit,as he says,but,a loose connection,in the breaker panel,or at the outlet itself,could be the problem.

Might be worth checking on the panel for sure. There was no other load on the breaker at the time, and I've never had a prob with it before. Might it be possible that the ignitor was somehow drawing more than the usual load? That was kind of what my first thought was, but you guys have brought up some other possibilities as well.

 

[Mt Bob]

Well,realistically,the fuse in the pellet stove should have blown.Pull the receptacle out of the wall box and check,and,check the wires in the breaker panel.If your house was fed with aluminum wire,I have seen those main feed wires come loose.But,you might just have a weak breaker.

 

[drizler]

Wouldn’t hurt to pull the receptical out and give it a look see. Those backfires are a true menace and though installation companies love them as they are fast. Any time I have any sort of issue with mine I yank it and put in a new one from Lowe’s and USE THE SCREWS. I’ve seen a coupleof mine act up over time and it was always one of those[emoji90]backwires. Also they will start getting [emoji3062]warm during use as they age and continuity’s being lost. GARBAGE.
Also you might pull that breaker loose and see if the wire is loose in the socket. Of course by then you may as well put in a new one[emoji847]


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[augiedoggy]

This is an old thread but I just had the same issue.. suspecting it was caused by current leakage in the igniter heating element I unplugged it and its been working perfectly since as long as I light it with the mini torch... I think im going to try a replacement heating igniter but theres a chance that will have the same current leakage issue that some electric heating elements have.

 

[Mt Bob]

This is an old thread but I just had the same issue.. suspecting it was caused by current leakage in the igniter heating element I unplugged it and its been working perfectly since as long as I light it with the mini torch... I think im going to try a replacement heating igniter but theres a chance that will have the same current leakage issue that some electric heating elements have.

"Leakage" is a short, usually wires on igniter rubbed through, but sometimes internally "shorted". Pull old one, inspect it and the wiring,all the way up to the control box. Add fuses if you wish.

 

[augiedoggy]

"Leakage" is a short, usually wires on igniter rubbed through, but sometimes internally "shorted". Pull old one, inspect it and the wiring,all the way up to the control box. Add fuses if you wish.

I'm sure damage can happen to the wiring (this should pop the main breaker and not just the gfci I would think) but I see this internal defect all the time with electric cartridge heating elements as I use them in electric brewing systems. I even purchased multiple new elements that have done the same. one manufacturer told me it was normal depending on the design and quality of the element to have some leakage and that many industrial cartridge heaters such as this should not be used with gfci power. Heating elements are really one big controlled short like a light bulb. (many refrigerators and washers often also trip these due to imbalanced loads and should not be used with gfci breakerseither ) unfortunately all my outlets in my garage except the one installed for my fridge, is on a gfci.

If this was the case, they would continue to work fine when plugged into a regular outlet. I believe from what ive read (Its been a while) the insulation material inside the element can break down and literally allow slight current leakage through it.. sometimes its instant and sometimes the element has to heat up enough for the material to expand and the leak to occur.

 

[Mt Bob]

You did not say it was a GFCI problem. Quite a different problem.Yes, many older stoves, and some new ones do not do well on a GFCI, has been hashed out here before. In lots of places, there are exceptions to the GFCI rules. You also could try a 3 prong to 2 prong adapter, as a "test".

 

[augiedoggy]

My apologies.. this thread came up in the search result along with others when I searched "England's stove tripping GFCI" and I read a few threads on it before responding. I guess I responded to the wrong thread.
Anyway, the igniter was definitely the cause and the stove works great on the gfci plug without it connected. I will update when the new igniter shows up. If it still trips im going to just light by hand as its in my garage.