Englander 25PAH sooty burn

[farmgirl1985]

Hi all! We bought a new 25PAH pellet stove this fall. The glass soots up within an hour of being lit, the longer it burns the blacker it gets. And I don't think we are getting the heat out of the stove that we should. The stove is vented through the wall with about 2 ft of SS pipe going up outside the house, OAK is installed. So far we've been through about 20 bags of pellets (American Wood Fibers--the only brand available here). The soot isn't sticky or gummy it wipes off pretty easily. I have tinkered with the bottom numbers a bit. From the store they were set on 1-4-1. I went to 1-3-1 - no help. Now am at 1-6-1. Still no help and possibly less heat. I run the heat setting at 2 or 3 and the blower at 3 or 4. Just trying to take the chill off. The burn pot is cleaned daily sometimes twice, the whole stove is cleaned weekly including the little doors behind the ash pan. The store I bought it from has no one that can help. Englander has not responded to any emails. And I just really don't have the patience to set on hold for hours. Any ideas?? Thanks.

 

[Watcher1]

Hi all! We bought a new 25PAH pellet stove this fall. The glass soots up within an hour of being lit, the longer it burns the blacker it gets. And I don't think we are getting the heat out of the stove that we should. The stove is vented through the wall with about 2 ft of SS pipe going up outside the house, OAK is installed. So far we've been through about 20 bags of pellets (American Wood Fibers--the only brand available here). The soot isn't sticky or gummy it wipes off pretty easily. I have tinkered with the bottom numbers a bit. From the store they were set on 1-4-1. I went to 1-3-1 - no help. Now am at 1-6-1. Still no help and possibly less heat. I run the heat setting at 2 or 3 and the blower at 3 or 4. Just trying to take the chill off. The burn pot is cleaned daily sometimes twice, the whole stove is cleaned weekly including the little doors behind the ash pan. The store I bought it from has no one that can help. Englander has not responded to any emails. And I just really don't have the patience to set on hold for hours. Any ideas?? Thanks.

"new stove this fall?" My best guess is you need to increase the air thru the burn pot.. The stove instruction should show you how to d that. All these pellet stove have 1 basic need. Air to the fire. You need a real frisky flame you should see some ash // not pellets being blown out of the pot. Hope this helps.

 

[stillersnut]

Check for obstructions in oak, exhaust vent. Pull away from pipe & vacuum inside the stove exhaust hole. Set bottom 3 numbers to 3-3-1 or 3-4-1.

 

[farmgirl1985]

If I go down to 3 to LBA isn't that less air? I think I need more air. When it was set from the factory at 1-4-1 I was having pellets backed up to the drop chute in the mornings when I checked it. I don't want it to feed more pellets at least I don't think I do.

 

[farmgirl1985]

Bought it mid September, installed it shortly after. Started using it beginning of October I think. I will try pulling the vent pipe off the back and vacuuming it good but this has been going on since we started burning it. I have called Englander and haven't gotten much help.

 

[stillersnut]

black soot is usually an air issue. The stove is not getting enough air to properly burn at optimal combustion. What is your exhaust set up? You only need about 4' of rise with this stove. I burn my PAH on 3-3-1, and as high as, 3-5-1 when I burn Turman or Hammer pellets. Both do well w/more air. What pellets are you burning?

 

[farmgirl1985]

We have a pipe that runs straight out the wall, an elbow and straight pipe up about 24" then the cap that points it down. The OAK just runs straight out, we do have a screen over it so nothing can crawl up in it--spider webs, wasp nests etc. I just shut it down again and will change the settings to 3-3-1 and see what that does. Pellets are American Wood Fibers hardwood. The plant is local so they are really about the only thing we can find around here. Thanks for your suggestions, I'll post tomorrow if the new settings help

 

[johninwi]

we do have a screen over it so nothing can crawl up in it--spider webs, wasp nests etc.

Like a window screen? I wander the web far to much to remember where i read things but iirc a screen reduces effective size of an opening by 75%. Does the screen come off easily? If so it'll be a quick test.

 

[stillersnut]

There is a metal rod on right side of your stove wall, clean out the small hole of this rod with a paper clip. Also try hitting the inside of the stove w/mallet, on each side of pellet chute, above the removable clean out doors. This knocks down all ash that can impede the air flow.

 

[bugman31964]

Before you change settings make sure that the wear plate is sitting properly, examine the wear plate and seat in the burn pot. Make sure there are no burrs or welding slag interferring with proper wear plate seating. Make sure the burn pot screws below the door are tightened. Adjust the hopper latches so that they properly shut and seal. Once you do these items, then observe the stove operation. I would set it back to the original settings also.

 

[stillersnut]

This particular stove has a different set up, I don't belive there is a wear plate. One solid burn pot. But I hear ya with weld burs, which can set the pot in a offset position. It is a single auger design w/ a solid one piece burn pot.

 

[farmgirl1985]

After changing the settings on my stove to 3-3-1. I don't see much change. But the soot didn't get as bad as quick. I have not seen a rod anywhere on this stove so we'll have to really look for that. Hubby works out of town but will be back tonight for the long weekend so we will try extra good cleaning as well. I'm using my phone this morning in hopes I can upload a picture.

 

[Watcher1]

After changing the settings on my stove to 3-3-1. I don't see much change. But the soot didn't get as bad as quick. I have not seen a rod anywhere on this stove so we'll have to really look for that. Hubby works out of town but will be back tonight for the long weekend so we will try extra good cleaning as well. I'm using my phone this morning in hopes I can upload a picture.

That is lack of air. Take the screen off the OAK outside. Clean the pot out make sure it is seated then restart.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

lower the LFF back down to 1, you are feeding too much fuel for the air you are feeding if dropping the LFF doesnt help by itself and we have done the "bang the back wall" cleaning try bumping the LBA (center) to 5

 

[farmgirl1985]

There is a metal rod on right side of your stove wall, clean out the small hole of this rod with a paper clip. Also try hitting the inside of the stove w/mallet, on each side of pellet chute, above the removable clean out doors. This knocks down all ash that can impede the air flow.

Cleaned the stove thoroughly, found the rod and ran a paper clip up thru it till it was free. Going back to 1-5-1 as suggested by Mike from Englander. Took the screen off the OAK as suggested by someone else. Going to try this again. Should we feel much air in the burn pot upon start-up? My husband had me turn it on and felt in the burn pot and not much is coming thru but when the pot is out we can feel air? Englander responded to my friday and sunday e-mails this morning but I haven't heard back from them on the pictures I sent them. They are saying its an air flow issue which I think I knew. Thanks for your help, will let you know how it goes. My husband also put the aluminum tape around where the auger drop chute is in the back.

 

[apandori]

You've got Mike in this thread.He's the ESWs man! lucky you! I'm having an air issue too. I think I'm feeding too much in with mine.

 

[farmgirl1985]

Stove has been going about 2 hrs now. A lot less black on the glass but there is still some in the upper left quarter. Flame looks better, still not real sure it is heating the room as it should tho. Definitely some improvement over what I usually have by this time. Will know more in the morning after about 12 hrs of burn. I am getting a E2 error about 15 minutes after starting the stove. It goes into the start=up sequence but the convection blower does not come on so it shuts itself down. I guess its not sensing the heat or its not burning hot enough? I hit start again and it takes about 10 minutes or so but the convection blower comes on and no further codes. This is not a new problem, its been happening off and on over the past couple weeks. Bottom numbers are set at 1-5-1. Hopefully the burn pot will have more fluffy ash rather than black unburned pellets in the morning.

 

[farmgirl1985]

Stove has been going about 2 hrs now. A lot less black on the glass but there is still some in the upper left quarter. Flame looks better, still not real sure it is heating the room as it should tho. Definitely some improvement over what I usually have by this time. Will know more in the morning after about 12 hrs of burn. I am getting a E2 error about 15 minutes after starting the stove. It goes into the start=up sequence but the convection blower does not come on so it shuts itself down. I guess its not sensing the heat or its not burning hot enough? I hit start again and it takes about 10 minutes or so but the convection blower comes on and no further codes. This is not a new problem, its been happening off and on over the past couple weeks. Bottom numbers are set at 1-5-1. Hopefully the burn pot will have more fluffy ash rather than black unburned pellets in the morning.

Morning update: not much better after 12 hours. Still have unburned pellets and not a lot of heat. Husband is really considering a return of the stove. Not happy at all with the performance. Have a happy thanksgiving!! Thanks for your input

 

[Buckeyesfan75]

Could be as simple as bad pellets....just read this thread earlier....root cause was AWF pellets......

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/non-combustible-wood-pellets.135828/

Just throwing another idea to consider.

 

[jmorgtwo]

View attachment 145924


Morning update: not much better after 12 hours. Still have unburned pellets and not a lot of heat. Husband is really considering a return of the stove. Not happy at all with the performance. Have a happy thanksgiving!! Thanks for your input

I have the summers heat version of this stove, which is also produces by ESW. I have had this stove for 3+ years and have had nearly identical issues as you are having from day one. ESW has not provided one ounce of usable support to stand behind their product. They have simply looked for other reasons to blame the stoves lack of performance on....wet pellets, dirty stove, etc.

If i were you i would return the stove ASAP. I sure wish i had

 

[CladMaster]

What is the length of your exhaust, how is it routed from the back of the stove to the outside of the house ? < Pictures would help

Is it 3" pipe or 4" pipe ?

These stoves need to have a good draft to burn properly.

 

[OhioBurner©]

This is also the same exact problem I have been heaving with my newly installed PAH. Well sort of, I think I had maybe 3 problems going on at once. Sometimes its hard to see one problem when you have two, or get to the root cause. But I had soot (black soot) coating the glass bad, and a very lazy dark red flame. I've posted it a few times, even made a thread labeled black soot or something like that just a few days ago. I'd come home in the morning to a stove that was barely going. I'd pop open the door to check it out and red flames would wick up around the door and several inches high outside of the stove! The door would be thick enough with soot that some of it would be burning - orange embers burning between the glass and the edge of the door. It would smell like an old pre-cat vehicle with the carb out of whack. I also couldn't hear the 'suction' through the oak like I had been, or at least it was muffled considerably. The burn pot was collecting crud. It was full of chunky stuff 3/4 the way up. Sometimes there would be smoldering pellets, sometimes spilled out over the edge of the burnpot. But I don't think it was because it was feeding too many pellets. More likely just from the crud filling up in the burnpot that the pellets simply didn't have a lot of space to go, and the lack of air from the clogged pot would cause them to smoulder instead of burn quickly. I'd clean it out a start it up again. Flame never seemed to have the intensity it used too, and often the glass would get black soot even on startup.

I tried switching back to Somerset pellets which have good reviews here, and results were the same. Though I can't beleive you couldn't find Somersets, your closer to the source (Kentucky) than I am and they are sold here by my local hardware store and also Menards. I saw AWF at Lowes but wasn't going to bother unless they ran out of Sets, as they weren't much cheaper.

I saw some improvement with a good 'monthly' cleaning, with also brushing the chimney (but not the duravent yet). I shop vac'd the stove and opened the exhaust chambers. It ran ok for a couple days then reverted.

Day before yesterday I tried the leaf blower trick. Cleaned out the stove normally, opened the exhaust chambers, left the door ajar, and ran the leaf blower on the top of the chimney. I also came across one reference to banging on the back of the firebox (like stillersnut mentioned) so I did that while the leaf blower was running.

After the LBT, it is noticeably better. I get the short quick blast-furnace type flames again and after the first day the burn pot had minimal buildup. Afterward I had the opposite problem too... I had my air turned up, like 1-6-1 (due to my previous efforts to increase air) and the stove actually went out a couple times with an empty burn pot (not sure if it has anything to do with it but it was windy that day and OAK is on windward side of house). Seemed like my pellets were burning too fast now. I reset it to 1-4-1 yesterday.

Have you tried the LBT yet, and banging on the back of the stove?

In my case trying to adjust LBA up was futile since the air problem was elsewhere and you can't 'shove' more air through the system if its already clogged. A clog anywhere in the system will cause airflow/draft issue. I doubt it was your screen on the oak and more than likely buildup in the exhaust path. Thing is, if its not free flowing then you start getting buildup in the burnpot and it clogs it up quick. Once the burnpot is also clogged then you have double the issue and for sure it won't burn right. I hope my theory of the LBT clearing out an unseen clog holds... time will tell. Its only been 2 days, I'll be satisfied when its been at least a week.

Good luck, hope you can figure it out. There is a lot of good info here but the problem is its not all together. It was a pain trying to diagnose mine and a lot of advice won't even work for my model stove. Would be nice to get a comprehensive guide going for just the PAH. If I can't get mine figured out its probably going to go on craigslist or to the dump. I just found out for the warranty to apply it has to be registered in 30 days wtf. I've never had to register anything before to get a warranty (or atleast in the short of time). I'm pretty sure I didn't even un pack the stove and the warranty card within 30 days, let alone now.

 

[Lake Girl]

Could be as simple as bad pellets....just read this thread earlier....root cause was AWF pellets......

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/non-combustible-wood-pellets.135828/

Just throwing another idea to consider.

The above thread mentions AWF pellets and a Harman stove... The tech spent considerable amount of time "troubleshooting" the stove only to find it was the AWF pellets. I would rule that out first by buying a couple of bags of decent pellets...

 

[farmgirl1985]

This is also the same exact problem I have been heaving with my newly installed PAH. Well sort of, I think I had maybe 3 problems going on at once. Sometimes its hard to see one problem when you have two, or get to the root cause. But I had soot (black soot) coating the glass bad, and a very lazy dark red flame. I've posted it a few times, even made a thread labeled black soot or something like that just a few days ago. I'd come home in the morning to a stove that was barely going. I'd pop open the door to check it out and red flames would wick up around the door and several inches high outside of the stove! The door would be thick enough with soot that some of it would be burning - orange embers burning between the glass and the edge of the door. It would smell like an old pre-cat vehicle with the carb out of whack. I also couldn't hear the 'suction' through the oak like I had been, or at least it was muffled considerably. The burn pot was collecting crud. It was full of chunky stuff 3/4 the way up. Sometimes there would be smoldering pellets, sometimes spilled out over the edge of the burnpot. But I don't think it was because it was feeding too many pellets. More likely just from the crud filling up in the burnpot that the pellets simply didn't have a lot of space to go, and the lack of air from the clogged pot would cause them to smoulder instead of burn quickly. I'd clean it out a start it up again. Flame never seemed to have the intensity it used too, and often the glass would get black soot even on startup.

I tried switching back to Somerset pellets which have good reviews here, and results were the same. Though I can't beleive you couldn't find Somersets, your closer to the source (Kentucky) than I am and they are sold here by my local hardware store and also Menards. I saw AWF at Lowes but wasn't going to bother unless they ran out of Sets, as they weren't much cheaper.

I saw some improvement with a good 'monthly' cleaning, with also brushing the chimney (but not the duravent yet). I shop vac'd the stove and opened the exhaust chambers. It ran ok for a couple days then reverted.

Day before yesterday I tried the leaf blower trick. Cleaned out the stove normally, opened the exhaust chambers, left the door ajar, and ran the leaf blower on the top of the chimney. I also came across one reference to banging on the back of the firebox (like stillersnut mentioned) so I did that while the leaf blower was running.

After the LBT, it is noticeably better. I get the short quick blast-furnace type flames again and after the first day the burn pot had minimal buildup. Afterward I had the opposite problem too... I had my air turned up, like 1-6-1 (due to my previous efforts to increase air) and the stove actually went out a couple times with an empty burn pot (not sure if it has anything to do with it but it was windy that day and OAK is on windward side of house). Seemed like my pellets were burning too fast now. I reset it to 1-4-1 yesterday.

Have you tried the LBT yet, and banging on the back of the stove?

In my case trying to adjust LBA up was futile since the air problem was elsewhere and you can't 'shove' more air through the system if its already clogged. A clog anywhere in the system will cause airflow/draft issue. I doubt it was your screen on the oak and more than likely buildup in the exhaust path. Thing is, if its not free flowing then you start getting buildup in the burnpot and it clogs it up quick. Once the burnpot is also clogged then you have double the issue and for sure it won't burn right. I hope my theory of the LBT clearing out an unseen clog holds... time will tell. Its only been 2 days, I'll be satisfied when its been at least a week.

Good luck, hope you can figure it out. There is a lot of good info here but the problem is its not all together. It was a pain trying to diagnose mine and a lot of advice won't even work for my model stove. Would be nice to get a comprehensive guide going for just the PAH. If I can't get mine figured out its probably going to go on craigslist or to the dump. I just found out for the warranty to apply it has to be registered in 30 days wtf. I've never had to register anything before to get a warranty (or atleast in the short of time). I'm pretty sure I didn't even un pack the stove and the warranty card within 30 days, let alone now.

We may try the leaf blower thing this weekend. AWF is less than 7 miles from the house so they r the most readily available here. Have not seen sommersets but I will start looking for something different. I have seen your posts I hope you get it worked out. These things cost too much to just put in the dump. We had a used much older model last year, decided a newer one would be more efficient. Maybe a costly bad decision? Idk. Thanks for the info

 

[farmgirl1985]

What is the length of your exhaust, how is it routed from the back of the stove to the outside of the house ? < Pictures would help

Is it 3" pipe or 4" pipe ?

These stoves need to have a good draft to burn properly.

3" pipe 24" from back of stove thru the wall to outside. An elbow and 24" up another elbow then the cap.