Englander 30-NC Burn Time

[PolrBear]

On this site and elsewhere (as well as from the previous owner of my stove) I've heard rosy burn time figures for the Englander 30-NC - rosy as in seven hours or more, with enough heat left at the end of that time to restart sans kindling. I've been using this stove a few days and nights, and so far this hasn't been my experience. At 10PM, with a great fire cooking, I stuff the firebox as full as it will go of hard, seasoned oak, close the air intake all the way to minimum, and shut the in-flue damper. Five hours later, all that's left is a few glowing coals and fragments, and I can restart larger pieces only by adding some kindling. At seven hours, the stove is still fairly hot, but the coals are down low enough that it's the next thing to starting from stone cold and can take my inexperienced hands an hour. Any tips? Am I doing something wrong here?

 

[jetsam]

With a new stove, it's usually wet wood or excessive draft.

Sounds like your stove is used? Check the gaskets, burn tubes, and baffle for proper installation and operation.

 

[kraco14]

I have this stove and it took a little bit of learning before I could get it to burn the way I wanted. It took some experimenting with air control, timing of shutting it down, and flue damper position before I got it to burn the way I wanted. Once I figured all those things out, I can load the stove at 9-10 PM and have enough coals in the morning to get it started without kindling. In other words, if your wood is seasoned, just try different things until you get the way you want it. Once you figure it out, it is a great heater.

 

[PolrBear]

With a new stove, it's usually wet wood or excessive draft.

Sounds like your stove is used? Check the gaskets, burn tubes, and baffle for proper installation and operation.

I have literally no idea where to begin when checking any of that stuff. (I don't even know what the burn tubes and baffle are.) Any ideas for learning?

I have this stove and it took a little bit of learning before I could get it to burn the way I wanted. It took some experimenting with air control, timing of shutting it down, and flue damper position before I got it to burn the way I wanted. Once I figured all those things out, I can load the stove at 9-10 PM and have enough coals in the morning to get it started without kindling. In other words, if your wood is seasoned, just try different things until you get the way you want it. Once you figure it out, it is a great heater.

Would you be willing to share what is working for you as far as air control, timing, damper position, etc? Might give me a head start.

 

[begreen]

Is there a thermometer on the stove or on the stove pipe? If not, that's a good place to start.

 

[PolrBear]

Buying a thermometer is one my list of things to do this afternoon. I have definitely been feeling the lack of one.

 

[jetsam]

I have literally no idea where to begin when checking any of that stuff. (I don't even know what the burn tubes and baffle are.) Any ideas for learning?

Next time the stove is reasonably cool, close the door on a $1 bill so that it is stuck between the door and the door gasket. Try to pull it out with the door latched. If it pulls out easily, you have more air getting in than you want. Do that all the way around the door. You may need to adjust the door or replace the gasket if you find a problem.

Here's the relevant bits from the manual on the baffle and tubes.



@Highbeam , further advice on checking the burn tubes and baffle, plus the glass gasket?

As begreen said, a stovetop thermometer, a flue thermometer, and a moisture meter will be a great help to you.

 

[kraco14]

I have literally no idea where to begin when checking any of that stuff. (I don't even know what the burn tubes and baffle are.) Any ideas for learning?



Would you be willing to share what is working for you as far as air control, timing, damper position, etc? Might give me a head start.

The two biggest aspects that helped me to obtain the burn that I wanted was my wood and the flue damper. Once I had seasoned wood, I was able to control the fire much easier. With wet wood, I would think that it was cruising, leave it alone, and then come back to the thing going nuclear. I suspect the wood had "dried out" during the burn and then took off, which also resulted in the wood burning faster. My stove is also in my basement so I have a very tall chimney. Once I installed a key damper in the flue, I was able to close it and get the stove to burn how I wanted. I had read about "lazy" flames on here a bunch and I could never produce that at home. With the key damper, I can shut it (with the primary air closed most of the way) and produce the "lazy" flames and good secondaries that I had been reading about on here. Without the damper, I would get super secondaries and an overheated stove almost every burn.

The use of thermometers also helps, although I don't begin to shut down the stove at the exact same temperature every time. I have learned to look at the flames of the fire and start the process of closing the air and damper but the thermometers were a must when I was beginning to learn how my stove wanted to be ran.

To answer your question: I start the stove with primary air and damper fully open. Once the fire has consumed the entire firebox, I push the primary air control about half way in. (stove top temp-anywhere from 300-400F) On my stove, the handle is even with the ash lip. I will let the flames catch back up. Once the flames have become stronger, I begin to close the key damper. If 90 degrees is straight up and down, I turn it to about 45 degrees. (stove temp-anywere from 350-500F). This is usually when the secondaries kick in and the stove begins to heat up much quicker. As the flames become stronger, I step down the primary air control, little by little, until it holds lazy flames on the wood and strong secondaries. Every stove is and setup is different so that's why I said you will have to experiment until you find the correct procedure for you.

Clear as mud, right?!?

 

[PolrBear]

Wow, you guys are quick and thorough. I had looked through the manual, but forgot it has instructions on the burn tubes and fiber board baffle. I'll work on those if necessary; for now, the dollar test has shown me that the upper side of the gasket is woefully loose, so I've ordered a replacement. We shall see if that alone is enough to explain, and fix, my low burn time woes.

Thanks for the detailed info, @kraco14! This is a treasure trove of someone else's experience....

 

[kyguylal]

A bit related, how many square feet do you guys heat with the 30-NC?

 

[PolrBear]

A bit related, how many square feet do you guys heat with the 30-NC?

Our house is 1700, of which about 1000 is on the main floor with the stove. Thus far we're being very successful in heating the end of that space where the stove sits. We're struggling with air circulation due to a lot of doorways, but I believe we have enough heat to cover everything we need, once we figure out how to get it moving the way we want.

 

[PolrBear]

Okay, last night I installed a new gasket on the stove. Very tight fitting, to the point where closing takes effort. So far so good, right? Maybe this new gasket will help with burn time, but it seems to be making another existing problem worse: The fire takes hours to get hot and nearly goes out entirely when the door is shut.

Case in point: I started a fire this morning at about 6AM. Ran it with the door open, or cocked slightly open, until 6:45, by which time my stovetop thermometer had reached about 250 degrees. Shut the door and BAM - temp went down to 100F. It's also easy to see visually that the fire isn't getting enough oxygen: Barely flickering with the door shut, it will grow up into a flaming inferno as soon as it's opened.

Here's a photo of my burn tubes and baffle. Is it possible for these things to get clogged? If so, how would I go about cleaning?

 

[PolrBear]

 

[PolrBear]

Or perhaps the issue is somehow insufficient draw? When the fire first gets hot, very little smoke will emerge when the door is opened, but once I add bigger pieces and it cools off a bit, smoke will sometimes billow out when I open the door. Any advice is appreciated.

 

[Mike M.]

I have this stove in my basement and it works very well. Burn times are up to 12 hours with red oak, hard maple or white ash. Keep in mind this wood needs to be dry, seasoned a minimum of 18 months. Can you post a picture of a full load? Here is my stove taking off at the beginning of the burn. Full loads mean you cannot fit another split in the stove, usually around 8 pieces for me, maybe 40 lbs of dry hardwood. I always start a kindling fire 1st to establish draft and coals before a full load. Kindling for me is pine, cedar, aspen, or whatever dimensional lumber scraps I have split up for the stove.

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[Mike M.]

I have this stove in my basement and it works very well. Burn times are up to 12 hours with red oak, hard maple or white ash. Keep in mind this wood needs to be dry, seasoned a minimum of 18 months. Can you post a picture of a full load? Here is my stove taking off at the beginning of the burn. Full loads mean you cannot fit another split in the stove, usually around 8 pieces for me, maybe 40 lbs of dry hardwood. I always start a kindling fire 1st to establish draft and coals before a full load. Kindling for me is pine, cedar, aspen, or whatever dimensional lumber scraps I have split up for the stove.View attachment 240480

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I should note that the kindling fire is only required for cold stove starts not standard warm stove reloading...

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[Woody Stover]

Or perhaps the issue is somehow insufficient draw? When the fire first gets hot, very little smoke will emerge when the door is opened, but once I add bigger pieces and it cools off a bit, smoke will sometimes billow out when I open the door.

Can you describe your chimney from the stove top to chimney top, including type, diameter, height, turns in the exhaust path, etc?

 

[PolrBear]

Okay, so I think I just found an important clue. I've been hearing about these "fiber board baffle" things and figuring I'd look into those as a possible part of the explanation. Guess what? My 30-NC doesn't have them! Thank you, used stove market. I'm guessing the previous owners busted the boards over time, weren't sure of their purpose or couldn't afford to replace them, and so simply left them out. This being my first stove, I didn't realize they were missing until I looked at pictures for comparison just now. Could this alone explain my stove's reluctance to burn up really hot with the door shut? I hope so, as I see some generic replacement boards from Lynn Mfg that I can get Amazon Prime. (In fact I went ahead and placed my order tonight.)

Here's my stove and chimney setup, inside and outside:

• Stove to elbow: About 48" of black pipe.
• Elbow to snap lock connector/thimble: About 1' of black pipe.
• 36" piece of 6" double wall passes through the wall thimble and outside, connecting to tee joint/cleanout.
• 6" double wall chimney rises 16' to cap.

Since my pipe was used and we ran some fairly green wood through the system in its first few days, I decided to be thorough and give the chimney a good cleaning tonight. There was plenty of soot, especially in the horizontal piece of double wall that passes through the wall, but I've held off running a full load test fire again until I get some input on the baffle boards. Not fully understanding the purpose of the boards, I don't know if their absence could be enough to explain my problem. I've Googled this without finding a clear explanation. Can somebody educate me?

 

[Highbeam]

Yes, you need them. They are surprisingly expensive from englander.

Without those boards I don’t think it’s possible to have secondary combustion inside the stove.

That paint is torched on the stove body! That’s usually from heat. Like almost glowing hot.

 

[MAD MARK]

You can buy 1 board off ebay and cut in half. A lot cheaper.
But, sounds like you should buy from englander so they fit well and you get what you need.

Little late but i was going to say from your picture your baffles are missing.

 

[PolrBear]

Yes, you need them. They are surprisingly expensive from englander.

Without those boards I don’t think it’s possible to have secondary combustion inside the stove.

Until I looked it up on Youtube today, I didn't understand what secondary combustion is. No wonder my stove doesn't ever get much higher than 400 degrees, drops back down easily, and never looks like those nice flame-filled example videos. It's a wonder the thing has worked at all on primaries only!

That paint is torched on the stove body! That’s usually from heat. Like almost glowing hot.

Well, I assure you, I wasn't the one who overfired the thing. (See above; I couldn't if I wanted to.) But the more I find out about how it was set up and used by the previous owners, the less anything surprises me.

You can buy 1 board off ebay and cut in half. A lot cheaper.
But, sounds like you should buy from englander so they fit well and you get what you need.

Little late but i was going to say from your picture your baffles are missing.

Yeah, I've read about some hacks that can be done with similar materials available by the sheet that can be cut to fit. I think buying from Lynn is a good compromise, as they're cheaper than those from Englander, but still being used for their intended purpose.

It's my intention to leave the stove off until the baffles get here this week, even though the weather is cold and the electric heat is costing me money, because 1) it seems futile to run a lot of expensive wood through a stove that isn't working right; and 2) cold fires build creosote and I don't want to have to dismantle and clean my flue again!

 

[Chuck the Canuck]

Until I looked it up on Youtube today, I didn't understand what secondary combustion is. No wonder my stove doesn't ever get much higher than 400 degrees, drops back down easily, and never looks like those nice flame-filled example videos. It's a wonder the thing has worked at all on primaries only!



Well, I assure you, I wasn't the one who overfired the thing. (See above; I couldn't if I wanted to.) But the more I find out about how it was set up and used by the previous owners, the less anything surprises me.




Yeah, I've read about some hacks that can be done with similar materials available by the sheet that can be cut to fit. I think buying from Lynn is a good compromise, as they're cheaper than those from Englander, but still being used for their intended purpose.

It's my intention to leave the stove off until the baffles get here this week, even though the weather is cold and the electric heat is costing me money, because 1) it seems futile to run a lot of expensive wood through a stove that isn't working right; and 2) cold fires build creosote and I don't want to have to dismantle and clean my flue again!

Very clear minded way of looking at things; you are to be commended for using logic over emotion...

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[MAD MARK]

Very clear minded way of looking at things; you are to be commended for using logic over emotion...

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Amen. If at least 50% of people were as gracious to advice and guidance on this site, the Hearth world would be a beautiful better place.

 

[ckr74]

Good call. Let us know how it works once you get it set up.

 

[brenndatomu]

Wow that stove has been run hard! A testament to how durable they are I guess!
Getting the baffle board back in there will make a huge difference in how it burns for you!