Englander 30-NC looking for troubleshooting input

[MNSawshop]

Hello all,

New guy here but not new to wood burning. I searched the forums on this model and found lots of info but I'm still struggling to get this stove to function the way I think it should.

First off some info that may help you help me:

This stove replaced a Drolet Escape 1800 which was 7 years old. Loved the Drolet in all ways except one...it had a small firebox(2.3 cuft) for the area I wanted it to heat. Burned great, clean, easy to use but lasting heat was short lived. So I thought I'd try this 30-NC as a replacement and removed and sold the Drolet early this fall.

Well once temps starting dipping below 40°F I started to burn in this 30-NC but it's been very stubborn to burn a good hot fire and very fickle about getting a good blaze with secondaries. If I do get secondaries they don't last long and goes back to a dull flame and lots of smoke out the chimney with dirty glass. At loading/reloading I always leave the door cracked open for 15-20 minutes to get a strong flame going then close door and leave the air control wide open for another 20-25 minutes then push it in about an inch/inch & half and that's where it gets semi-lazy secondaries I've tried pushing the air control into being flush with the ash lip... but shortly after that the fire dies down and doesn't burn clean.

The stove details: Same chimney setup as the Drolet. 25 feet of insulated flex liner-6" inside a masonry chimney with 16" of horizontal pipe and 2-45° elbows down at the stove(in front of old fireplace)

The wood currently being used is 2 year old split/covered silver maple and red pine. 75% maple 25% red pine mix. This wood is burning awesome in my other stove which is a Blaze King Princess insert in the upstairs fireplace. So I can't blame the wood.

What else can I check or look into on this 30-NC? Visually all looks okay with the stove so I don't know where to look for problems? Has anyone else had a stubborn 30-NC but found a root cause that maybe the factory missed?

 

[begreen]

Make sure that the baffle is correctly in place and there isn't a gap between the panels?

 

[realstihl]

I did the exact stove change out as you last year. The Drolet not as finicky as the NC-30 when it comes to using dry wood.First check the baffle placement as Begreen suggested. Second, check the moisture content on the wood you're using. Third make sure you have a good connection on the flue collar. It may need more draft. Fourth, don't use big stuff until a good coal bed is established. Fifth, make sure the flue is clean. This is just the stuff you can easily check and they are not in any particular order. The 30 is a good stove, and it is kind finicky in my opinion. It will take some time to get used to it and burn very different than the Drolet 1800.

 

[Mike M.]

I too switched to a 30 NC this year. I was burning a Nap 1450 in my old house. The 30 is similar to the 1450 or any non-cat in the fact that they like to run hot. One thing I noticed right away was the 30 takes a little more wood to run well. This is logical since the firebox is larger. After getting used to the 30 I really like it. The air wash system is great and the control is better than the old 1450. My advice is resplit 5-6 splits to 3 or 4in (giving you maybe 10 smaller splits) load them on a few coals. Watch the stove closely as it will likely take off and need to be turned down in a few minutes. Then enjoy the heat! After this load you can probably switch back to large splits.

 

[Highbeam]

This isn't like the BK, run it hot before damping down. Really hot, put a thermometer in the middle of the step and let the fire roar until it says 600 and then close the draft only about half way until she hits 700 and then turn down the draft until the temp stops rising. See if the secondaries are doing anything then.

You've got plenty of chimney, dry enough wood, and a good stove.

 

[blades]

I would be a bit concerned about any build up in your 16" horz run and then the 2 45's. Baffle boards should be resting on the pipes in the back of the box not up on the angle Iron that hold the fire bricks, boards centered and no gap between them. Next is a question about your home is it quite air tight? Do you have the main intake on the back hooked up to an out side air source? And if you do it needs to be lower than the nc30 intake level. If not try cracking open a window in the stove room to see if that improves things. 40 degrees is still kinda warm for the 30 to take off and results in needing to get a very strong fire going with small material to get that flue of yours hot enough to provide a good draft.
I have replaced my baffles with ones that 2.5 times thicker in order to give a constant draft reduction, around a 15' flue on mine it is a straight shot up and out, as it would blast through the first half of burn quickly build a heavy bed of coals. Yesterday I loaded it with Siberian elm around 5am, got home around 9pm and still had a medium ( perfect restart size imop)bed of coals. Temps were just below 32 when I left climbed to maybe 40 and back to mid 30's when I got home. it was about 72 in main area inside at that point. The 30 likes the 500-650 range( no fan on) stove top IF reading to operate properly, 350-450 is a bit dicey for consistent secondary action. Another trick on the 30 is to set your load up with a small channel to the back in front of the dog house air supply. That channel will act like a blast furnace and if it extends open to the back will preheat the secondary air as it is fed up the back center( the area where there is no brick) to the tubes up top. ( also keeps it from basically boring a hole through a split.) Oh and of course dry fuel 15-18% range, it will work ok with 20, but there is a night / day difference at 15%. Once the outside temps drop another 20 deg. you will find a fair change in its temperment.

 

[Huntindog1]

The NC30 has more head room than alot of stoves if you dont fill her up it will be harder to get secondaries. As open space up top is harder to maintain higher levels of heat to fire of the secondary flames. I have read that there is a gap left from the baffles not being perfectly fitted. Some people have come up with solutions to fix that. You can search for it. Another option is the NC30 doesnt have a ceramic blanket on top of the baffle board like some stoves do. You can get on ebay and buy a small piece of 2300 degree ceramic insulation to lay on top of the baffle board. This will help fire off the secondaries quicker and help maintain secondary flames also.

 

[Z33]

This isn't like the BK, run it hot before damping down. Really hot, put a thermometer in the middle of the step and let the fire roar until it says 600 and then close the draft only about half way until she hits 700 and then turn down the draft until the temp stops rising. See if the secondaries are doing anything then.

You've got plenty of chimney, dry enough wood, and a good stove.

Exactly what I do and it works well. I think the learning curve comes in being comfortable enough to let it run up that high. It took me weeks to be able to willingly run it up that high.

A few trips above 900 later when I wasn't paying close enough attention and I am more than comfortable running it up to 700. My oh chit panic number is anything above 900

 

[Highbeam]

Exactly what I do and it works well. I think the learning curve comes in being comfortable enough to let it run up that high. It took me weeks to be able to willingly run it up that high.

A few trips above 900 later when I wasn't paying close enough attention and I am more than comfortable running it up to 700. My oh chit panic number is anything above 900

My condar stove top temp gauge has a 700, then a dot where 750 ought to be but no 800 label. The red zone ends somewhere near where 800 ought to be but I've never gone that high. My install is very controllable and I pay close attention when the temp is climbing during the first violent stages of burning to shut her down if needed.

Burning this thing at low temps in a small space would be difficult. It doesn't seem to be made for that.

 

[MNSawshop]

Thanks to all you replied. I read thru your responses and found them all informative.

I'm not trying to run it low and slow like the BK does but that was what my concern is...this stove just doesn't want to take off and get super hot like my old Drolet did. I put a magnetic thermometer on the middle of the stove where the top bends up to the highest level tonight to see where the temps were. Hottest I got was close to 700° but I had to crack the door for a half hour to get it there. I had a few glowing charcoal pieces when I got home to re light on. Once I close the door with the air control fully open after about 15 min it's back down to 550-600. If I push in on the air control about an inch & half it then dropped 400-450.

I'm pretty confident the wood is dry but decided to verify so I split some of my wood in half and check it with my moisture meter and the wood checked okay 12-15%. Baffle boards were still pushed back and together in the middle. Stove pipe is all tight and secure connections.

It seems starved for air supply but I don't know why? Our house is not super air tight so I don't believe it's a cause. I ran it a week ago with a large window open and it makes no difference in the operation.

When I reload before bed I'll try the suggestion of leaving channel open for the front doghouse to blast back to the rear of the stove and see if that helps.

Guess I wasn't expecting it be this tricky. Just about time to do another reload for the night.

 

[blades]

All the new stoves are choked up- Thanks EPA. Oh and those stove top thermometers are not always that accurate which is why i have an infrared unit.
I think it was mentioned but if not is the top of your flue enclosed with a screen type spark arrestor? Even with good dry fuel those buggers can get plugged up which will seriously restrict your draft. Don't want to get up there or can't- binoculars- telescope, rifle scope to maybe see it. Same difficulty for cleaning - you'd be surprised how well a pellet rifle works on knocking the creosote loose/off( fun too) ( course depending on location neighbors might become somewhat alarmed- & a local LEO visit might happen) a plugged screen is the only thing I can come up with for your problem short of something in the flue system internally or a separation of sections of the flue.

 

[sportbikerider78]

This year, Nov and Dec have been shoulder season. What I have been doing with my englander is getting a good coal bed in the morning and throwing on a split every 3-4 hrs. My wife maintains it all day. When I come home from work, I throw 3-4 more splits on and get the coal bed deeper again. At 11pm I add another 3-4 splits, run it wide open for 30 mins and then shut it down.

My wood isn't the best. But it will be every season from here out!