Englander 30 - replace ceramic baffle boards with... ?

[Creek-Chub]

So - second year in and I love the heat this stove puts off. Just took it out of the fireplace (hearth install) yesterday to put the fan on, installed a full-width blockoff plate at the lintell, and I'm loving it. Problem? These damn ceramic fiber boards. Over the course of a year I've banged the hell out of them, have to keep pushing them back together, and now they have sort of "potatoe chipped" on me - they're warping a bit. To top it off, my brother was helping me put the stove back in yesterday and sat on one. I've rigged it back up, but it isn't going to last the heating season.

I wouldn't have a problem shelling out $150 for a new set, but it doesn't seem like a long-term solution. Isn't there some sort of steel I can buy to replace them with that can handle the constant high temps without warping? I know I've seen other stoves with a fixed-in-place "steel" baffle that rides on top of the burn tubes. What's it made out of? I've got a couple of steel suppliers around here that can get me what I need, they just don't know what that is. Any problems with this?

If the only solution is ponying up for the ceramic board I'll do it, but it seems like I ought to be able to but something a little more durable. Thoughts?

 

[Hiram Maxim]

You may want to p.m. Mike or Cory.

 

[Creek-Chub]

True. Didn't think about that.

 

[moosetrek]

That's a good idea, maybe a steel baffle that can be welded/screwed in? GOod luck, if you fond something that works post it and I'll give it a try too-

 

[Creek-Chub]

I don't think I'd even worry about trying to weld or screw it. The existing ones work just sitting there, and they're pretty light. Just trying to figure out what type of steel it needs to be, or if I'm barking up the wrong tree. I find it hard to believe there isn't a good reason they went with ceramic, but I PM'ed Corie and Mike so we'll see what the experts have to say.

 

[Todd]

That ceramic helps insulate the fire box which keeps up the secondary burn temps. If you go with a steel plate maybe consider a blanket of rock wool on top? Or if there is room maybe install some fire bricks up there?

 

[BrotherBart]

Put a sheet of stainless up there and it will just warp. At the most inopportune time. Put something heavy like firebricks up there and kiss $120 worth of warped burn tubes good-buy

BTW: Don't expect Mike or Corie to bless anything other than what is in there now. That is how the stove was configured for certification and they would be painting a bullseye on the seat of their pants to recommend anything different. Not to mention you buying those boards helps pay their paycheck. :cheese:

Quit trying to stack wood above the firebrick and throw the dang pokers away.

 

[Creek-Chub]

Put a sheet of stainless up there and it will just warp. At the most inopportune time.
Quit trying to stack wood above the firebrick and throw the dang pokers away.

I wouldn't dream of anything too heavy, and certainly not regular stainless. I guess practically speaking I'm thinking that whatever the burn tubes are made of ought to work, right? That fiber board doesn't get any hotter than the burn tubes, it would seem, and they aren't warping.

I did quit trying to stack above the firebrick, but inevitably you ding one now and then. Plus, the ceramic boards themselves have warped, and aren't making contact with the burn tubes in spots - leads to kind of a hit-and-miss secondary burn. I understand the concerns about messing with the air intake, etc., and how they relate to the way the stove was designed, but come on. The ceramic is there to block the smoke from going straight up, and it doesn't burn up or warp. There isn't a real fancy reason that I can see other than that. If I could find something that can stand the heat and is more durable (so far, the closest I'm coming is 347 stainless or boilerplate stock) it seems like it would be a win/win. No? Not trying to reinvent the wheel here.

 

[BrotherBart]

Let us know what you come up with. If you want a piece of warped 304 stainless that bowed up and blocked the flue exit, let me know. :lol:

 

[ansehnlich1]

aye, some chap was experimenting with cement board last year, different stove, don't know how he made out, might be worth a try, I have absolutely NO responsibility for the results of your experimentation though

 

[Creek-Chub]

Come on now fellas, it's not like I'm trying to take a blowtorch to this thing. You mean to tell me there's nothing with a little durability that can stand up to relatively high heat and not melt or warp? The 304 stainless, based upon my PhD work (University of Google) wouldn't be my first choice. That said, I'm seeing rinky-dink Voglzang stoves at the local big-box with some sort of steel baffles. Yeah, it's Vogelzang, but are these baffles warping in the first month of use? I'll quit with the ranting, but it sure seems like there ought to be something better out there.

 

[BrotherBart]

Come on now fellas, it's not like I'm trying to take a blowtorch to this thing. You mean to tell me there's nothing with a little durability that can stand up to relatively high heat and not melt or warp? The 304 stainless, based upon my PhD work (University of Google) wouldn't be my first choice. That said, I'm seeing rinky-dink Voglzang stoves at the local big-box with some sort of steel baffles. Yeah, it's Vogelzang, but are these baffles warping in the first month of use? I'll quit with the ranting, but it sure seems like there ought to be something better out there.

I can't tell ya other than to buy a PE Summit with a stainless baffle. What I can tell you is that after the first year I tossed the poker and I am going into season four with the 30 and the boards look fine. Do I wish they were tougher, hell yes. Am I willing to pay a grand more for a stove with a stainless baffle, hell no. Besides the 30 was the only big firebox stove that I could get into that fireplace.

 

[precaud]

You could get some of this stuff, it will withstand the abuse:
http://www.zrci.com/rs1200.htm

At about $66 per sq ft.

But the best thing, as has been said, is to replace it with another ceramic board and stop jamming stuff into it. It's not hard to do.

 

[Creek-Chub]

BTW: Don't expect Mike or Corie to bless anything other than what is in there now. That is how the stove was configured for certification and they would be painting a bullseye on the seat of their pants to recommend anything different. Not to mention you buying those boards helps pay their paycheck. :cheese:

Spot on with that one - no response from PM's yet... :lol:

Looks like I may have found the same stuff though, for quite a bit less. I was hoping to find something more durable, but this is quite a savings.

http://store.nexternal.com/shared/S...reType=BtoC&Count1=254299342&Count2=171439766

 

[precaud]

The name of the stuff (and the price) suggests that it's a 2300F board, which will be MUCH less dense than what is in there now, which is probably one of the boards rated 3000F or higher. This stuff will be a lot less durable. I'd get specs on it before buying it.

 

[Creek-Chub]

Good call. What am I looking for with regard to hardness?

 

[BrotherBart]

That stuff is one inch. Twice as thick as what is in the stove now. I see that stuff all over the place but don't like what it will do to the airflow over the baffle being so thick and possibly not clearing that air damn right in front of the flue exit. Half inch like what is in the stoves is the hard stuff to find.

 

[BrotherBart]

I just checked and the minimum order for those boards is 60.

 

[precaud]

I'm pretty sure the 3000F-rated board is the stuff you want. As BB said, it's hard to find in 1/2" in the retail market. Even McMaster-Carr has nothing reasonable to offer.

At some point, maybe we can put together a group buy.

 

[Creek-Chub]

Just talked to a guy about this stuff: (broken link removed to http://www.rsifibre.com/smoke.html)

They sell to stove manufacturers, and this particular board sounds similar to what is in my stove, only they now offer to rigidize it, or impregnate it with something that makes it extremely durable. It's not stainless, but sounds much more durable than what I've got now. Thicknesses start at 1/4" and go up from there. They'll cut it to size, and get about $20 per square foot. I figure any one of us would need less than 4 SF tops.

And he'll ship 1 board.

Only kicker is you have to purchase it using a company name, and he can call it a "sample". It's 2300 degree stuff, but the description sounds good, as does the rigidizer. I think I'm going to give it a shot. Worst case, I'm out $100. Best case, I can replace the two boards I have now with one that fits.

 

[precaud]

Those RSI boards are VERY low density (13-18 lbs/ft³).

Why don't you just buy replacement boards from Englander? They're $60 each.
http://www.englanderstoves.com/store/30-NC_Parts.html

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Just talked to a guy about this stuff: (broken link removed to http://www.rsifibre.com/smoke.html)

They sell to stove manufacturers, and this particular board sounds similar to what is in my stove, only they now offer to rigidize it, or impregnate it with something that makes it extremely durable. It's not stainless, but sounds much more durable than what I've got now. Thicknesses start at 1/4" and go up from there. They'll cut it to size, and get about $20 per square foot. I figure any one of us would need less than 4 SF tops.

And he'll ship 1 board.

Only kicker is you have to purchase it using a company name, and he can call it a "sample". It's 2300 degree stuff, but the description sounds good, as does the rigidizer. I think I'm going to give it a shot. Worst case, I'm out $100. Best case, I can replace the two boards I have now with one that fits.

i dunno what the stuff is , i havent looked at the link yet, but i should note , he reason we use 2 seperate boards and not one big one is that a single sheet the right size aint going through the doorway of the stove. as for a replacement material , we havent seen one which gives the same results which is durable enough to withstand the environment in there. other thing is you do not want to completely insulate the top of the stove with the refractory panels (vermiculite panels would do that and last but the radient output would be cut possibly severely). the bottom line is the company line, we are not aware of nor can condone replacement of the refractory with different materials. the unit was tested and certified with whats in it and replacing this material with anything else which has not been tested and approved by the listing agency will void the listing

 

[Creek-Chub]

Because they're a pain in the butt. The two boards slide away from each other and you're constantly pushing them back together. They're also slightly smaller than the space they're intended to fill. I'm also not the one who is loading the stove most of the time, and dings happen. Lastly, the boards are warping, like a potatoe chip. They just don't seem to be up to the task at hand, and after one year. Maybe the problem is on my end, and maybe I got some "bad" boards. More than likely the former, but the end result is that I would prefer something different.

Thanks for the tip on the density. I would like to know what exactly it is that Englander is selling to compare it with, but it certainly shows the difference between the link you posted earlier, and the RSI stuff. I'll have to reconsider.