Englander 30NC or 13NC

[brucew6char]

Hi

I've got a small cabin that the primary heat will be a wood stove. The first floor has an open kitchen, living room, dining room with a bedroom, bath and small office. Total square feet of 864. It's am open ceiling over the kitchen, living room, dining room. Upstairs there's an open loft area and bath, for a total square feet of 342. There is duct work and fan at the top of the loft ceiling to pull hot air down into the hallway by the bedroom and office. The house is in the Sierras, so the wood will be pine, fir, etc - not hardwood. Often winter nights get into the low teens, sometimes lower, and the day may only get into the upper 20's.

I'm thinking the Englander 30NC would be a better match since I wouldn't get as much heat ouput from the pine softwood. Also, my experience with wood stoves, is it takes less tending to run a bigger stove at 1/2 their capacity than running a smaller stove at a higher capacity.

Does anyone think the 30NC will just put out too much heat? Appreicate any comments.

Bruce

 

[fossil]

Don't know the Englanders, Bruce, but many here do, so you came to a good place with your question. I do know something about the Sierras (born & raised in CA, as was my father). Welcome to the forum! Where in the Sierras are you? (covers a good deal of territory)...sounds like you're pretty right high up there, with those temps you've related. My experience with woodburning makes me tend toward the "bigger is better" side when sizing/selecting a stove. As you alluded to, you can make a big stove burn smaller, but you can't make a small stove burn bigger. On the other hand, you can "over-stove", because the temperatures at which you burn are important. Sounds like the cabin is set up pretty well to circulate air, which is a big plus. Others on here will jump in with specifics on model numbers & such, I'm sure. Again, welcome. Rick

 

[BrotherBart]

I burn in a 30-NC and often burn pine in it. Your place is approximately the size of my family room and kitchen. The sucker will have you sleeping out in the front yard.

Get the 13.

 

[fossil]

See, Bruce...there really are folks with answers here, right alongside the rest of us. Rick

 

[brucew6char]

The cabin is in a small community call the Ponderosa which is in the Sequia National Monument, south of Sequia National Park, east of Porterville, Ca. Elevation is 7,100. In February there was over 6 feet of snow on the ground.

 

[cmonSTART]

Boy, my gut feeling on this is go for the 30. Sounds like a place where you may need the extra heating capability.

 

[Tfin]

Not sure what the 30 is rated at, but the 13 (what I have) is rated as having a 1500 sq ft heating capacity. The fire box is only 1.8 cu ft though. I get a good 6-8 hrs burn time, but that's on well seasoned oak.....pine wouldn't obviously heat that long.

So I guess we'd need to know exactly what your looking for in regards to useage (how often are you there/how long of a burn time do you need/desire). If you're just burning softwood, and you want a good 6-8 hrs of burn time....you may need to go with the 30 (not sure what its fire box size is, but I'm sure its over 2 cu ft). But you have also take into consideration that the 30 may drive you right out of the cabin.

The 13 easily covers your sq footage heating needs, and shouldn't drive you out of the cabin but may not give you the burn times you want only burning softwood.

So I guess the balls back in your court at this point.

 

[brucew6char]

Thanks for info so far. Still undecided. Some more about the cabin - it will be well insulated with double pane windows, R-19 walls and R-38 ceiling. Not much thermal mass. There is a backup 30K BTU wall heater in the main living area and a small 10K BTU wall heater in the bedroom. but propane is already very expensive. The cabin is for year round use.

Some spec information
13 NC - firebox 1.8, log size 18, 60,000 BTU, heats up to 1,800, door size 9 1/4 by 16 1/2
30 NC - firebox 3.5, log size 20, 75,000 BTU, heats up to 2,200, door size 11 1/4 by 15 1/8

What's the experience with running a 30-NC at low throttle? My experience is that if you throttle back too much all you get is smoke, but that's with a 20 year old pre EPA Jotul.

 

[gpcollen1]

I do not have experience with the 30-NC but I do have a big stove. All it takes is a bit of practice and a large stove (non-cat experience only here) can be run with smaller wood loads/throttled down when necessary and then loaded up and real hot for a long overnight or daytime burn.

I'd rather sit around in shorts than be burning wood with a sweatshirt on. The shoulder months, when it is not quite frigid yet, is when it gets a bit more tricky trying not to cook out your family and guests.

 

[BrotherBart]

What's the experience with running a 30-NC at low throttle? My experience is that if you throttle back too much all you get is smoke, but that's with a 20 year old pre EPA Jotul.

The stove dearly loves to run between 500 and 600 degrees. Small load, big load whatever. Pine, oak or Sears catalogs. Large firebox stoves don't run as clean at lower temps as the smaller firebox stoves do. The smaller fireboxes get up to secondary burn temps a lot faster. With the smaller stove you have a smaller surface area radiating heat. With the 30 you have a bunch of surface area tossing heat.

 

[Tfin]

I don't know.....its a tough choice. If you had access to hardwood, I'd say go for the 13 all the way and never look back. In and by itself, I say the 30 is overkill bigtime.......but with only burning softwood.......I flip flop back and forth.

Someone on this forum must be burning a 30.......anyone? anyone? Bueler? Bueler?

 

[BrotherBart]

Someone on this forum must be burning a 30.......anyone? anyone?

Yes. Me.

 

[Tfin]

Someone on this forum must be burning a 30.......anyone? anyone?

Yes. Me.

So you did......I'll respectully bow out now. :red:

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Circulating air will help even heat out and make a smaller stove more efficient. Having slept in a loft space in a cabin with too much heat... it's unbearable. If anyone will sleep in the loft space- go for the smaller one!

 

[BrotherBart]

Someone on this forum must be burning a 30.......anyone? anyone?

Yes. Me.

So you did......I'll respectully bow out now. :red:

No, no. The fellow needs to know the up and down sides of burning both stoves. I think a good person to advise also would be Corie with England's Stove Works. He started out with a 30 in his house and swapped it out for a 13 because it got too hot around there.

I took the 30 out of my sig line a while back because a lot of the questions PMed to me were better answered by ESW tech support and also it was starting to sound too much like I was trying to sell stoves for them.

 

[Corie]

You really, really won't be happy with the 30-NC in this situation. I ran a 30-NC in a 1000 sq. ft. single floor ranch for about a month. It is simply impossible to operate a stove that large at a low enough burn rate to keep the house at reasonable temperatures. The 13NC has more than enough heating capacity to handle your home and if you're good at loading the firebox to the gills, you'll get very generous burn times as well.

 

[brucew6char]

Appreciate everyones input. I think the 13-NC is the best fit. The primary area that will be heated is only around 500 square feet. The loft will be heated and probably too much even with the recirculating air system. The bedroom can be colder and in the office - when in use, a small electric radiator type heater can be used when a boost is needed. Just broke ground on the cabin last Wednesday, so if all goes well, hoping to be using the 13-NC by Thanksgiving.

Bruce