Englander, Duravent, Insurance in conflict

[tkshrout]

Stuck between 3 rocks here...

I bought a 17-VL recently, and constructed a corner hearth according to manufacturers clearances. Englander places the back corners 7" from combustibles and the stove pipe ring 15". I made my hearth of with dur-rock and ceramic tile.

Along the way, my insurance company asked for 18" in front of stove instead of 16" so I made that happen.

Now, I'm looking at durablack clearances which state 18" to wall. If I keep the front clearance I can only keep 16 for the pipe ring.

I called englander, they say 15" is not a problem. I called duravent and they say I need DVL. (ignoring the fact that according to their installation instructions the single wall pipe will only be about 8 inches from the ceiling at the support box).

Because of my install, this will only be a problem for about 2 feet as the pipe has an offset and one wall of the corner install is a half wall.

Trying to decide between:
-extending tile on floor to make hearth bigger
-tripling my expense on pipe
-buying a cheap heat shield

Any experience here? The two manufactures are really disagreeing...

Are all single wall pipes 18"?

Thanks for any help,
Tim

 

[bholler]

Any experience here? The two manufactures are really disagreeing...
Are all single wall pipes 18"?

Well if the stove manufacture says 15" is fine by code it is. But that does not mean your insurance company will ok it regardless. I always go with the 18" just to be safe

 

[tkshrout]

Another idea I had would be to use a 45 right at the top of the stove. the pipe would move away from the wall immediately. would that affect my stove performance?

 

[claydogg84]

Time to shop for a new insurance company. I suspect if you tell them 16" is going to be it, they may change their mind.

 

[MaintenanceMan]

DVL will make your clearances better all the way around. If money isn't too big of an issue I'd just go that rout. Fact is that's exactly what I did with my 17. I went with DVL to get the tightest clearances possible. Cost me $100 at the time on Dynamitebuys.

 

[tkshrout]

Money is unfortunately an issue. I'm going to have to use 2 45 angles and about 3 2-foot sections. That ends up costing about 75 in single wall or 300 in double wall. I'm just confused- state regs, etc state 16" clearance, the pipe companies state 18" and the stove company sets for 15? Seems like a crazy world!

At this point, it would be more effective for me to use left over tile and add a border which would increase the front clearances...

Is the 45 on top of the stove not recommended?

 

[Cynnergy]

I have a set of 45's on the top of my stove to get the offset needed to avoid a floor joist. Seems to work fine and looks much nicer than doing it at the ceiling IMHO. I have to be careful with draft in warm weather - but that's probably unique to my situation. If you have a decently tall chimney (over 15'?) I would say it should be good.

 

[Wisneaky]

Anything I've read has said 18" for single wall. Plus I'd trust duravent because they make the pipe. Check www.build.com for pricing on duravent they were the cheapest that I found when shopping for duravent. Plus they usually have a coupon code for 5% off duravent products.

 

[bholler]

Anything I've read has said 18" for single wall. Plus I'd trust duravent because they make the pipe.

There are quite a few stoves that dont require 18" The stove manufacturer sets the clearance They have tested that stove with single wall on it. But like i said i still set up my installs at 18 or I use double wall just to be on the safe side

 

[Highbeam]

The stove guy makes the stove. He says 15" for the collar to the wall. You meet or exceed that.

The pipe guy makes the pipe. He says 18" to the wall. You need to meet or exceed that. I don't believe that the 18" requirement is trumped by what the stove guys says. What happens during a chimney fire?

If you can't satisfy the pipe guy's 18" requirement then you use double wall which is superior in many ways including the 6" clearance to the wall. If money is an issue you can use a pipe shield for only those portions where you can't meet the 18" requirement. They look goofy but are cheaper.

You say "triple the cost" for flue pipe to go from single to double. You're tripling a small number. The total cost of the upgrade might be a couple hundred more for which you get a legal installation, no fight with insurance, a lifetime flue pipe vs. just several years for single wall, better draft, better looks, and better safety.

The couple of hundred bucks buys a lot of beer but over the life of this investment is small money.

 

[Woody harrelson]

The stove guy makes the stove. He says 15" for the collar to the wall. You meet or exceed that.

The pipe guy makes the pipe. He says 18" to the wall. You need to meet or exceed that. I don't believe that the 18" requirement is trumped by what the stove guys says. What happens during a chimney fire?

If you can't satisfy the pipe guy's 18" requirement then you use double wall which is superior in many ways including the 6" clearance to the wall. If money is an issue you can use a pipe shield for only those portions where you can't meet the 18" requirement. They look goofy but are cheaper.

You say "triple the cost" for flue pipe to go from single to double. You're tripling a small number. The total cost of the upgrade might be a couple hundred more for which you get a legal installation, no fight with insurance, a lifetime flue pipe vs. just several years for single wall, better draft, better looks, and better safety.

The couple of hundred bucks buys a lot of beer but over the life of this investment is small money.

in other words, quit being cheap!

 

[bfitz3]

Whoa! Am I reading correctly that a stove, installed to manufacturer specs under UL standards and inspected by the building inspector, may not be insured by an insurance company?

 

[bholler]

Whoa! Am I reading correctly that a stove, installed to manufacturer specs under UL standards and inspected by the building inspector, may not be insured by an insurance company?

Yes the insurance company can turn it down for what ever reason they see fit.

 

[bholler]

The stove guy makes the stove. He says 15" for the collar to the wall. You meet or exceed that.
The pipe guy makes the pipe. He says 18" to the wall. You need to meet or exceed that. I don't believe that the 18" requirement is trumped by what the stove guys says. What happens during a chimney fire?

So would the same apply for furnaces where the requirement for clearance is much less? You can go by the stove makes recommendations. But that is a minimum i always try to go over min for a little extra safety.

 

[Highbeam]

So would the same apply for furnaces where the requirement for clearance is much less? You can go by the stove makes recommendations. But that is a minimum i always try to go over min for a little extra safety.

Are you talking about wood furnaces? Illegal in WA but I would absolutely stick with the 18" clearance for single wall and 6" for double wall, 2" for class A.

 

[bholler]

Are you talking about wood furnaces?

No oil gas or coal furnaces many times have much lower clearances. I have also seen that many pipe manufacturers say 18" unless specified otherwise

 

[tkshrout]

All I can say is that money is tight- I came here to look for advice or suggestions as I figured other people may have experienced this situation.

Did some more looking today- stove store recommended using heat shielding.

Got the following email from Englander:
"Good afternoon,

Yes, we have tested and approved the stove with 15 inch single wall clearance.

If you have the 45 coming directly off the stove then another 45 to go straight up, that shouldnt be an issue with drafting."

I'm not suggesting that I run the single wall at 16 inches with no protection (even thought englander seems to be fine with it), I'm trying to find alternatives to spending on dvl when it only applies for like 1 foot of my run and the stove manufacturer says its not necessary.

So I think my best options either move the stove forward and add ember protection by adding tile to the floor, or buy an after market heat shield to reduce clearances for the pipe run.

Does anyone have any links to reliable clearance reductions based on using a heat shield like:
http://www.imperialgroup.ca/stove_stoveboardsheatshields.cfm?c=346

Anyone have experience with inspection/approval with a shield like this?

Thanks for any help.

 

[Babaganoosh]

Slap the inexpensive heat shield on now to preserve your stoves placement on the hearth as well as the front clearance, save your pennies and buy double wall pipe in the future if you choose. Done and done.

 

[MaintenanceMan]

Slap the inexpensive heat shield on now to preserve your stoves placement on the hearth as well as the front clearance, save your pennies and buy double wall pipe in the future if you choose. Done and done.

Sure seems like the simplest and least expensive option......

 

[begreen]

My understanding is that once the pipe leaves the stove is it under fire code, not the stove mfg. testing. You will note that DuraVent says 18" minimum clearance for single-wall pipe. I don't know why Englander would list a deviation from known code standards. That confuses owners and installers. Just because the stove is ok at less than 18" does not mean the pipe is ok at that distance if single-wall. Single wall stove pipe is highly radiant!