Englander PDVC-25 Upper Auger Issue

[talley2191]

I have read through pages and pages of issues with the Englander PDVC-25 and haven't seen an issue exactly like mine described (I'm sure it's out there somewhere). At any rate, this is year 3 with my stove and after averaging about 2.5 tons a year through it I have had a few issues this season.

I have noticed that if I run the stove for a period of time at 3/3 (my standard setting) and shut it down, it has issues restarting. The stove goes into shut down mode fine, and will completely shut down like it always does, but during restart the upper auger will not turn and thus the stove will not start.

Now, I have employed a home remedy until I get a better idea how to trouble shoot it by unplugging the unit and plugging it back in. Most of the times the issue goes away and the upper auger feeds fine. On two occurrences over the last 3 days however I have received 2 different error codes. I received an E2, and E3 code after the unit went into start up mode, and the unit ignited the pellets.

It happened last night, and while the fan was still on as it hadn't cooled down after start up, I unplugged the unit, counted to ten and plugged it back in. The stove came back on after I pushed "ON" and now 10 hours later, the upper auger is turning without incident.

As unplugging the unit seems to "fix" or mask the issues most of the time I have ruled out an auger motor issue. Am I right to do so? Should I think sensor, or perhaps a vacuum line? I am not sure the role the vacuum line plays so I would be very appreciative of any advice or words of wisdom. Thank you

 

[MCPO]

Are you aware that the upper auger turns only a few seconds each minute ,but the bottom one continuously?
AND you could swap auger motors if you think one might be bad to note any differences .

 

[kenstogie]

e1 is vacuum loss, e2 is failure to start, an e3 is over temp. i would give englander a call i hear they have great customer service. also there is s ton of info on englanderstoves.com for troubleshooting. i would post thelink but my android tablet wont let me.

 

[CladMaster]

Shut the stove down, wait til it's cooled off.
Remove all the pellets from the hopper.
Remove the mains lead from the wall.
Remove the rear panel.
Remove the top auger and it's motor.
Clean all parts to the auger and motor and check the bearing for the auger that bolts to the back of the stove.
Check the inside of the shaft that the auger sits in for any signs of blockage.
Re-install the auger and motor.
Check all pipes for the vacuum switches (all it needs is a small leak / crack in the pipe for this not to work).
Check the switch in the top of the hopper (this turns the top auger motor on or off when the lid is open / shut).
Check the vacuum switches (there are two).

Once you have checked and cleaned all of the above, put the stoves rear panel back on and restart the stove under test conditions.
There is a test procedure on their website to test all the motors and the ignighter one at a time.


Once you have done the tests, fire up the stove as if you was going to heat the house / room to see how the stove responds, use only a small amount of pellets in the hopper just incase you have to do a teardown again.

Hope this helps.

 

[talley2191]

Are you aware that the upper auger turns only a few seconds each minute ,but the bottom one continuously?
AND you could swap auger motors if you think one might be bad to note any differences .

I understand the upper auger turns an interval whereas the lower is continuous. I believe my title might seem as though I feel the auger has issues. I guess if I was to place my best guess out there, I should say the true issue is causing the upper auger to not work as designed. Just a guess though.

 

[talley2191]

What role does the vacuum line play in the combustion process of the stove? The plan is to clean the stove really well, and inspect the wiring and hose. I understand broken wires can cause issues, but what issue is related to a cracked vacuum hose?

 

[CladMaster]

What role does the vacuum line play in the combustion process of the stove? The plan is to clean the stove really well, and inspect the wiring and hose. I understand broken wires can cause issues, but what issue is related to a cracked vacuum hose?

These shut the feed of pellets to the burn pot if the air pressure within the stove is not correct, the combustion blower is part of that cycle. If you look, you will see a small hole to the right of the burn pot on the back wall, this has a small pipe that goes to one of the vacuum switches, if the vacuum is not right, the switch gets activated and the feed shuts off.

 

[Harvey Schneider]

Before you spend a half day tearing your stove apart, consider this possibility. The E-2 may be the result of the E-3.
Have you ever cleaned the convection blower? If that blower can't move air the stove will overheat and shut down (E-3). I am not sure, but I think that when the stove cools to room temp it will also show an E-2 (failed to make fire).
Put the stove in test mode and see if the convection blower runs and if it moves an appropriate amount of air.

 

[talley2191]

@CladMaster, thank you for that information.
@Harvey I will run the diagnostic check that I saw on the manufacturers website.

I truly appreciate all the insight. Any insight as to why unplugging and plugging it back in seems to rectify, at least temporarily the issues and the unit then works flawlessly until it's tuned off?

If the unit sits for an extended period of time (e.g. 6 hours or more it starts up fine) As of this writing my stove has been running for 10+ hours. This is after showing an E2 code where my only action was to unplug and plug it back in.

Guess that was why I was curious if the vacuum line had an effect on a sensor somewhere??
I'm working 24 hours for the fire department today so I won't be able to gets hands on with my stove until tomorrow.

 

[Harvey Schneider]

Guess that was why I was curious if the vacuum line had an effect on a sensor somewhere??

A failed vac line would cause an E-1 followed by an E-2.
Another thought; E-3 can also be caused by running the convection blower at a lower setting than the fuel feed setting. My PDVC is in my workshop so I always run it at a convection setting of 9. I don't mind the noise and the higher air flow improves overall efficiency.

 

[talley2191]

My stove is now being shut down after about 11 hours of flawless usage. I expect to complete it's shut down, and then it will be cleaned out. In a couple hours my wife will then turn on the stove again and while it will show " S U" on the display I do not expect the upper auger to turn. How can that be explained? Slightly confusing but I'm trying to educate myself a bit so I can take s closer look at in the morning.

 

[Harvey Schneider]

I do not expect the upper auger to turn.

The upper auger won't turn if the vac switch is not satisfied. That would indicate an air leak.
Check:

• door gasket
• combustion blower gasket
• vac hose for cracks
• blower motor (some motors have a hard time getting going when cooled off)
• vent blockage

I'm sure I missed a few things but others will suggest them.

 

[talley2191]

The upper auger won't turn if the vac switch is not satisfied. That would indicate an air leak.
Check:

• door gasket
• combustion blower gasket
• vac hose for cracks
• blower motor (some motors have a hard time getting going when cooled off)
• vent blockage

I'm sure I missed a few things but others will suggest them.

Thank you, but how does unplugging it and plugging it back in if it were to be a blocked vacuum line or such? I think the fact that unplugging the unit for 10 sec. seems to allow the system to restart without issue is the curveball for me.

 

[kofkorn]

When you unplug the stove, you are making it "forget" any previous errors and codes. It then goes through a normal start cycle.

I would think that this is why you are seeing different results after cycling the power.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Thank you, but how does unplugging it and plugging it back in if it were to be a blocked vacuum line or such? I think the fact that unplugging the unit for 10 sec. seems to allow the system to restart without issue is the curveball for me.

When you do that was there a partial pellet load in the burn pot from the failed start?

If so a second priming charge and additional heat from the igniter can get the unit going and up to temperature to finally satisfy the the t/c and keep the fuel somewhat coming.

Clean that stove, really clean that stove. Get all of the ash in the exhaust system out of the stove along with any in the venting. Your exhaust system starts just above the burn pot and ends just outside the vent termination.

Do the same for your air intake, this starts just outside the OAK screen and ends where the burn pot sits.

Check your vacuum line and if it is loose or cracked replace it.

 

[slvrblkk]

Make sure you clean out the little pinhole in the back of the firebox...one of the vacuum lines should go to it...it sometimes gets clogged with ash. I had an '06 pdvc that that happened to and the upper auger would stop turning. Actually my switch went bad but the hole could be clogged too. I believe the hole is on the right hand side next to the impingement plate as you're looking at the stove.

 

[kenstogie]

Make sure you clean out the little pinhole in the back of the firebox...one of the vacuum lines should go to it...it sometimes gets clogged with ash. I had an '06 pdvc that that happened to and the upper auger would stop turning. Actually my switch went bad but the hole could be clogged too. I believe the hole is on the right hand side next to the impingement plate as you're looking at the stove.

I also have a 25pdvc and have looked for the vacuum pinhole but just don't see it. I follow the vacuum hose and it looks like it goes to the cavity behind the impingment plate to me which is near impossible to see into.

BTW What is that cavity back there any way?? The exhaust gas goes through there and warms a heat exchanger which a fan blows on to get the warmed air in the room?? is this correct??

 

[CladMaster]

I also have a 25pdvc and have looked for the vacuum pinhole but just don't see it. I follow the vacuum hose and it looks like it goes to the cavity behind the impingment plate to me which is near impossible to see into.

BTW What is that cavity back there any way?? The exhaust gas goes through there and warms a heat exchanger which a fan blows on to get the warmed air in the room?? is this correct??

The hole is just to the right of the burn pot (see pic below).

Yes, that cavity is part of the heat exchanger.

 

[kenstogie]

The hole is just to the right of the burn pot (see pic below).

Yes, that cavity is part of the heat exchanger.


View attachment 83658

Wow and there it is. Thanks.

Hey someone here came up with this idea so I am not taking credit but if you take a small piece of the lytherm gasket material and sandwich it inbetween the auger motor (espeicially the lower one cuz it's on all the time)and the L-bracket right below it will quiet the the Englander 25pvdc considerably. I just used some of the scrap pieces I had kicking around they don't need to be big at all.

 

[talley2191]

Unit is cleaned and inspected. All motors seem to be operating properly, and I do not notice any issues with the vacuum lines. The only thing (and it could be a non issue) I found was a loose ground wire that runs from the bottom 1/3 of the control panel to the stove as a ground. The screw was hand loose so I gave it a little tightening. I do not know what that 4-5" wire goes, but I assume its a ground for the control panel and probably not an issue. Outside of that I gave it a good cleaning. The only thing different this year is that I hadn't vacuumed the fire box and surrounding areas out this year. I am usually very diligent about that. Maybe I unclogged something associated with a vacuum. Current temp in Maryland right now is 65 degrees. I may still do a little "road test". Guess now is the time. I would be interested in knowing if anyone is familiar as to what that ground wire actually grounds....could my problem be that simple???

 

[Harvey Schneider]

BTW What is that cavity back there any way?? The exhaust gas goes through there and warms a heat exchanger which a fan blows on to get the warmed air in the room?? is this correct??

I have been looking at the same structures, here is my understanding of what is there. If you look carefully you will find a port at the top left of the metal box at the back of the fire chamber. It is on the top of what appears to be the hot gas side of the heat exchanger. With the impingement plate removed you can see the baffles that the hot gas flows around on its way to the exhaust blower. So it looks like the hot gasses enter at the top left, and leave near the bottom at the back through the exhaust blower.