Enviro Pellet Stove Regret

[whitetailscout]

Well, after year 3 of having our Enviro Empress Insert, I can honestly say that I regret buying it. We replaced a wood burner with this pellet stove, thinking that it would be easier for our in and out of the house lifestyle. Last year at the end of the season it stopped working. I kept getting a flashing code 3. As it was late in the season, I just put it off until this past summer. There is no local Enviro service to be had near me, and I wound up having a cleaning/service done by a local dealer that sells Harmon. They "serviced" it and left. Well, I tried running it after they left, and again it was not running properly. They weren't willing to come back out without charging for a second service call. What is happening is that the stove will run for awhile, then shut itself off. Sometimes it runs 15 minutes, sometimes it'll run longer, but it always shuts off. I really am not familiar with these stoves, and not sure how to get it to function. Overall it has been a huge disappointment.

 

[whitetailscout]

By the way, I feel like I would have been much better off buying a Harmon, I would have had plenty of dealer support. The dealer I bought my Enviro from is awful. I called and they literally were unwilling to assist with the issue. The sell, but offer no support. I have a neighbor that has a Harman, and the dealer they purchased from provides full service.

 

[nailed_nailer]

Sorry to hear you are having problems with your insert.
Pellet stoves require daily...weekly...semi-annual...and annual maintenance. Sometimes more.
They are not a "Set, and Forget" device.
It sounds like you were misinformed about the User responsibilities of owning one by your dealer.

FYI your Manual is located here
http://enviro.com/media/manuals/?fam=Empress_FPI

From the Empress FPI Technical manual

2. The stove will not operate when hot.
Check the heat level indicator if a fire is not detected, or if the fire has gone out the #3 light will flash because the exhaust temperature sensor’s contacts have opened.
Check the hopper for fuel.
The burn pot liner may require cleaning. Build up in the burn pot will cause the unit to shut off by stopping the auger feed.
Incorrect air damper setting. - Excessive air may consume the fire too quickly before the next drop of fuel, leaving completely unburned fuel in the burn pot liner. - Insufficient air will cause build up, further restricting the air flow through the burn pot liner. This in turn will cause the fuel to burn cold and very slowly. Fuel may build up and smother the fire. In this case clean the burn pot. (Note: the unit may require a change to the vent system or installation of fresh air to correct air to fuel ratio problems).
Check the fuse on the motherboard; nothing will work if the fuse is blown.
Combustion blower failure. - The combustion blower is not turning fast enough to generate the proper vacuum in the fire box. Visual check – is the blower motor turning.
12
13
Troubleshooting
Check the exhaust blower voltage across the blower wires (>=114V on #5 setting and >= 82V on #1 setting). – Replace the Circuit Board if the Voltage reading is less than 82V. with a line voltage >115V AC.
Check vacuum levels in the exhaust channel by bypassing the vacuum switch, then remove the vacuum hose from vacuum switch. Check the vacuum readings by placing the open end of the vacuum hose on a Magnahelic Gauge (readings must be above 0.07” W.C. (17.4 Pa) on low fire).
Poor quality fuel – insufficient energy in the fuel to produce enough heat to keep the stove burning or operational.
Exhaust temperature sensor failure. – Bypass sensor located on exhaust blower if stove now operates properly, the unit may require cleaning or a new sensor. Contact your local dealer for service.
Contact your local dealer for service.
3. The exhaust motor will not function normally.
Open the left side access panel; check all connections against the wiring diagram.
See “2. The stove will not operate when hot.” Section.

As you can see A flashing #3 light means a lot of things....but basically it means the stove won't come up to operating temperature.
This is usually caused by running out of fuel (pellets)
Could also be plugged Exhaust passage
A Dirty stove
Not enough combustion air.
Or a bad/disconnected temp sensor

All of the above are basic maintenance items.

A pellet stove requires a bit of mechanical aptitude.
Or a fat wallet.

Seriously, Familiarize yourself with the technical manual and ask as many questions here as you like.
Most folks on here are happy to help.

---Nailer---

 

[whitetailscout]

I appreciate the detailed reply. The stove isn't dirty. I had it professionally cleaned this summer, and I have literally burned less than 2 bags of pellets because of the issue. "Contact the dealer" got me nowhere, they are terrible. I'm not sure if anyone else has had the misfortune of dealing with Stovepipe in Warwick, RI. I've tried tweaking the air flow, and the trim settings.

I don't know if this is a good description, bit or doesn't get a constant flame, the flame will die to almost nothing and there, then the flame will slowly build, and then there will be a couple of minutes of flame, then die back down to nothing.

I also don't get a lot of heat from it. Our couch is about 7ft in front of it, and we don't really feel the heat. My neighbors Harman will chase you out of the room with the heat it throws out. When I did contact the dealer, they blamed it on the Stove Chow I burn. They said that I have to burn a premium pellet.

 

[ohbix]

You might edit your title and add "enviro" to it. Stovelark is very knowledgeable re: Enviro stoves and hopefully will see this. Assuming there is no blockage (I've read posts on here about prof. service missing areas, including entire vent), sounds as either insufficient fuel is feeding and/or exhaust fan isn't high enough. Have you checked the auger tube for any partial blockage? I've been burning Stove Chow in my enviro M55 and they are as hot as the Somersets. Get a reading at the convection tubes of 500 F at setting 3/5. Also might check that the exhaust sensor wire/s are fully seated, and whether any limit switches were tripped and need to be reset (they'll have a red button on them).

 

[nailed_nailer]

I have dealt with that stove shop one time. It was a great experience and I have nothing bad to say about them.
That said....it was only one time.......

You said you had it cleaned........How many bags of pellets were run thru it previously. Like last year.

Did they pull the insert out and clean the exhaust and convection blowers?
Did they run a cleaning brush thru the vent stack?
Did they check the outside air connection (if installed)?
Did they check all the gasket sealing surfaces?
Did they run it after their service?

If not they they did not perform a good service.
As long as the Stove Chow pellets you have in it are good shape and dry it is a fine fuel.

Where in SE Mass are you? PM me if you want a second opinion.
I'm on the Cape.

 

[whitetailscout]

Well, last year we only ran a ton of pellets. Year 1 we ran at 3 tons. When I had it serviced this summer, I watched them pull the unit out of the fireplace, they ran a vent brush, and they really cleaned the exhaust and blowers. The high limit switch was popped, so he reset it. He started the stove, and it ran great until about 30 minutes after he left and then it shut itself down again.

The stove does not have an outside air kit. When I bought it, I asked if it was needed and the dealer said no. I see on this forum that that the outside air kit is popular.

 

[phil san]

Well, last year we only ran a ton of pellets. Year 1 we ran at 3 tons. When I had it serviced this summer, I watched them pull the unit out of the fireplace, they ran a vent brush, and they really cleaned the exhaust and blowers. The high limit switch was popped, so he reset it. He started the stove, and it ran great until about 30 minutes after he left and then it shut itself down again.

The stove does not have an outside air kit. When I bought it, I asked if it was needed and the dealer said no. I see on this forum that that the outside air kit is popular.

I have had that stove for 9 years, rebuilt it several times and finally moving on to a Harmon. Couple things. If you have the newer control board
1. Insure feed rate at #4 and combustion at #3.
2. Start the stove on #2 - do not use #1.

Enviro FPI does not have an OAK connection built in.

But first make sure your high limit switch ( red push button behind the wrap around face plate is pushed in ).
Also, slide your air intake rod bottom lever to about the middle setting. Watch fire and if any lights start to blink push right to add more air as the auger will start to shut off pellet supply. The air adjustment is very,very critical. If you have a low flame and it keeps going out you may be feeding too much air on the low setting. Your pellet brand is no problem

I jumped out the high limit switch as it always tripped due to heat build up within the fireplace. Heard that was an issue with the M55 and a a reason for that model replacement to a stronger blower. My stove runs fine, just parts wear out, heat nor great and don't trust it as being to finicky.

 

[Lake Girl]

http://enviro.com/custom_content/docs/manuals/C-12145 Instruction PELLET Service Manual.pdf
The first portion goes through boards; more basic troubleshooting/repairs/replacements are from page 32 on.

I jumped out the high limit switch as it always tripped

Not a safe thing to do ... it is there for a reason. I would have found a way to transfer that trapped heat to your living room.

Did you try replacing the high limit sensor? Is the convection blower clean and able to transfer heat as it should? Could check the blower sensor as well... page 44 of the above manual.

 

[phil san]

http://enviro.com/custom_content/docs/manuals/C-12145 Instruction PELLET Service Manual.pdf
The first portion goes through boards; more basic troubleshooting/repairs/replacements are from page 32 on.


Not a safe thing to do ... it is there for a reason. I would have found a way to transfer that trapped heat to your living room.

Each to his own! High limit switch isn't even on many pellet stoves. I could relocate it but imho don't need it, pia.

 

[Lake Girl]

Each to his own! High limit switch isn't even on many pellet stoves. I could relocate it but imho don't need it, pia.

Each his own is right ... homeowner's will be voided by that action though as you have compromised the integrity of the stove. Other pellet stoves are set up with different heat sensors and computer algorithms to function without a dedicated "high limit".

I do realize this is falling on "deaf ears" but would not recommend your solution.

 

[nailed_nailer]

Phil it sounds like you have lots of experience with the Empress. You make some great suggestions. Lot of good info.

But,

I'm with Lake Girl.
The high limit switch is there for a reason. If you jumper it out and get an over fire situation in the stove you could be looking at a bad situation.

If the high temp switch is tripped find the cause and correct it.

In the M55 case it was a design problem and a solution was provided by the manufacturer.
Granted, not with complete satisfaction by all owners.
But there was a solution.

Running a stove without a manufacturer installed over temp sensor is like running my old F250 with the speed governor removed. It was governed at 93 MPH. If removed yeah,...you could go faster. But do you really want an 8000lb truck running that fast down the road?

Suggestion,
Lets do what we can to get Whitetailscout's problem identified before we start recommending pulling safety features out of his stove.

---Nailer---

 

[whitetailscout]

Thanks for the feedback guys, Nailer in particular for sending the details by PM. I am going to give it a good cleaning, set the trims to Phil's recommendations. By Phil's comment, my dissatisfaction with the heat output seems valid.

 

[phil san]

Phil it sounds like you have lots of experience with the Empress. You make some great suggestions. Lot of good info.

But,

I'm with Lake Girl.
The high limit switch is there for a reason. If you jumper it out and get an over fire situation in the stove you could be looking at a bad situation.

If the high temp switch is tripped find the cause and correct it.

In the M55 case it was a design problem and a solution was provided by the manufacturer.
Granted, not with complete satisfaction by all owners.
But there was a solution.

Running a stove without a manufacturer installed over temp sensor is like running my old F250 with the speed governor removed. It was governed at 93 MPH. If removed yeah,...you could go faster. But do you really want an 8000lb truck running that fast down the road?

Suggestion,
Lets do what we can to get Whitetailscout's problem identified before we start recommending pulling safety features out of his stove.

---Nailer---

Hey, what I meant was try a temp jump out to see if that is an issue. I know of a few instances where it was. To elaborate: Follow my points re: trim and air settings, but the rest is different as I have modified the stove over time as the original OEM just did not cut it for heat output or stability.

In my situation I have the FPI thickly surrounded by Roxul within the brick fireplace as a sound/heat loss dampener and have also modified the unit internals to manufacture my own OAK to increase stove heat output. Additionally have another high limit safety switch within the FP enclosure and under the hopper lid.

Regardless, the air and trim settings are your issue if the stove is clean.
ps
as an aside, i have experienced the original exhaust blower failing after 3 years creating similar issues as yours. Snapdisc was fine but the motor internals would quit once the exhaust bower reached a certain high temp causing the shutdown.

 

[stovelark]

Hi Whitetail- Sorry got so late in here. Ok a couple of things- the original #3 light- that is a proof of fire switch (EC-001) mounted just above the exhaust blower left side of stove facing it, to the rear. Most of the time, that switch is forgotten to be cleaned and builds up crud on it, and will throw false #3 and have to be restarted. The Empress is an easy to run and use stove. Mine is 2007 vintage and I've changed the convection blower this past year because of noise, not because of it not working. If all is correct in the stove, the ashpan is locked in place, the cast iron heat exchanger ribs are kept somewhat clean, and the cover is in place for the heat exchanger, there's not much on this stove that can go bad. The overtemp popping is indicative of either a dirty convection blower or a weak hi temp switch. Please everyone, do not bypass this important safety feature (you will get a flashing 4 and the stove will shut off if the overtemp is popped.) The air control- most Empresses run best if all the way to the left and back to the right about 3/8-1/2 inch (or best if actually setting it with a magnahelic about .15-.17 in/wc.) If your stove is clean behind the cast brick liners, and the chimney is clean, the air shutter should work well at about that spot. Open too much and you'll get a very short flame. Another thing to check, are we getting proper feeding into the burnpot? On heat level 2 or 3, you should have flames up and over the top of the burnpot. Things to check- excessive dust built up in the hopper and/or the drop tube itself. I would also try another brand of pellet to see if you can induce a change in heat output as well. Try something premium, ie spruce pointe, lacrete, hamer's hot ones, lignetics to just name a few. That stove is a quality heater and if set up properly should heat nicely 1000-1200 sqft.
Again, apologize got in here so late, I try to monitor for Enviro and Quads espec... good luck with it. Don't give up on the stove, you just have to find a quality tech. Scott from Pellet stove service is up in your neck of the woods, he is also an Enviro guy....