EPA decides no old model sell through

ABMax24

Minister of Fire
Load them up and send them to Canada, we'll "recycle" them.

As long as they meet CSA B415-10 4.5g/h requirement they are still legal in Canada.

Seriously though I wonder how many never used stoves will be thrown out? Could dealers hang on to them, strip them down, and sell off the parts?
 

Ignem

New Member
Feb 14, 2020
16
Kentucky, USA
Load them up and send them to Canada, we'll "recycle" them.

As long as they meet CSA B415-10 4.5g/h requirement they are still legal in Canada.

Seriously though I wonder how many never used stoves will be thrown out? Could dealers hang on to them, strip them down, and sell off the parts?
Like the Chinese chainsaw parts kits? “No, no, no...this isn’t a stove. It is just a box of stove parts.”
 

ABMax24

Minister of Fire
Like the Chinese chainsaw parts kits? “No, no, no...this isn’t a stove. It is just a box of stove parts.”
I guess, but I was more referring to selling as replacement parts, doors, glass, baffles, firebrick, tubes, catalysts, etc. Give a way for the dealer to recoup costs of the stove.
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
5,520
NE Ohio
Or build a fire in them once...no no no, its not new, its a used stove... that still has warranty left on it. ::-)
 

webby3650

Master of Fire
Sep 2, 2008
10,974
Indiana
I guess we can throw those old junky Blaze King Siroccos away now! Finally;lol
 

Ctwoodtick

Minister of Fire
Jun 5, 2015
1,376
Southeast CT
Sounds hideously wasteful to not allow those stoves to even be donated.
 
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Amin1992

Member
Oct 9, 2019
217
PA, USA
Man that's awful. Another government overreach.

Are all the new EPA stoves catalytic? Bummer if so, I hate those things.
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
22,549
central pa
Guys we have all known about this for years. I agree with covid they should have extended the deadline but most of the stoves should have been sold off by the time covid hit. And no not all are cat stoves. But why do you hate cat stoves?
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
5,520
NE Ohio

carg3

Member
Jan 29, 2007
55
I began the search last year and found a pre-'20 Lopi at a great price (on facebook marketplace)at a shop two plus hours away. Used the credit card to make a down payment by phone I. n February, expecting to pick it up soon. Then covid hit. Long story short, the guy didn't want me coming up, but he needed the stove paid for by the deadline. I paid, he stored it all summer, and it's all good. He said he only got stuck with one stove.
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
5,520
NE Ohio
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SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
4,768
Downeast Maine
Really what happened is American manufacturing ownership killed manufacturing in the US. They didn't want to comply with EPA regulations and took production elsewhere. Known as the "low road", as apposed to just cleaning up emissions and keeping production here, the "high road". Formula One rules get tighter every time they revise the rules, but the cars just keep getting faster, somehow. The US Auto industry really cried when lower emissions became mandated, but now we have 600+ HP V8 powered cars that have less particulates and carbon in the exhaust stream than most cities have in the ambient air.
 
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ABMax24

Minister of Fire
Really what happened is American manufacturing ownership killed manufacturing in the US. They didn't want to comply with EPA regulations and took production elsewhere. Known as the "low road", as apposed to just cleaning up emissions and keeping production here, the "high road". Formula One rules get tighter every time they revise the rules, but the cars just keep getting faster, somehow. The US Auto industry really cried when lower emissions became mandated, but now we have 600+ HP V8 powered cars that have less particulates and carbon in the exhaust stream than most cities have in the ambient air.
While this is true it's also driven by consumers, the "Wal-Mart crowd", for lack of a better term, don't want to pay $25 for a toaster made in the US, they'd rather pay $14.99 and have it made in China.

I think there's a lot of people starting to see the mistakes in this now, unfortunately for many sectors it's too little too late. Things like semi-conductor manufacturing I never see returning to the America's, Asia now has the leading technology and the barriers for re-entry in North America are just too high.
 
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SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
4,768
Downeast Maine
There wouldn't be any toasters made in China for the "Walmart Crowd" if not for US manufacturers shifting production. Walmart would not even be able to exist without Chinese goods. To blame the EPA and then consumers is foolish.
 
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ABMax24

Minister of Fire
There wouldn't be any toasters made in China for the "Walmart Crowd" if not for US manufacturers shifting production. Walmart would not even be able to exist without Chinese goods. To blame the EPA and then consumers is foolish.
This is true, and the EPA certainly can't be blamed for it. But it's a domino effect, once the first products began being produced cheaply in China other manufacturers had to follow suit to maintain market share. It's down to corporate greed, but at the same time as consumers we often have a choice, how many people will pay more for a similar domestically made product? Particularly those on fixed incomes, or those struggling just to stay above the poverty line. So I believe to say consumers didn't play a role in the move to offshore manufacturing isn't the full truth either.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
4,768
Downeast Maine
I disagree, it all goes right back to the manufacturer for deciding to make and then peddle us (the citizens) the Chinese garbage. Perhaps folks wouldn't be suffering with poor wages if there were more employment opportunities, the same employment that was outsourced to China. High unemployment is great if you are a producer, you can pay employees crap and if they balk, there are always more poor people willing to work. This is all without getting into the real politics as to how this happens and for what reason. I think we can all agree the deck has been stacked against everyone but the 1% by moving production overseas.
 

ABMax24

Minister of Fire
Maybe my world view is just different because of the region I live in. We are relatively affluent because of the energy industry, particularly for blue-collar jobs, the vast majority of us have the incomes to be able to buy domestic products, yet Wal-Mart thrives here. Recently we've been looking at purchasing a bedroom set, almost everywhere we visited sells cheapish furniture made overseas of materials like laminated particle board, and most also have the option of more expensive Canadian made hardwood sets with quality hardware. At every location they said they're having a hard time selling the domestic products solely based on price, the customers don't really don't seem to be able understand that it's worth it long term to pay more for quality and longevity.

In many ways I liken this to the oil and gas industry and the hatred toward it for CO2 production. At the end of the day if there wasn't a market for fossil fuels producers wouldn't exist, we can blame oil companies and hold protests all we want, but when we get in our large SUV's and drive home what did we really solve?

It is us as consumers that drive the markets, if Chinese goods weren't bought they wouldn't be produced. It is up to us to educate ourselves about the value of buying local, and buying domestically.

The one thing I do believe is there needs to be a tax on imports from countries that lack environmental and/or labor standards comparable to those in the western world, this would put domestic products on a level playing field and the tax dollars generated could be used as grants for innovation and for bringing manufacturing back home. IMO the last 4 years has been a positive change in this respect for the US people, but at this point who knows what the next 4 will hold in that regard.
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
85,058
South Puget Sound, WA
Are all the new EPA stoves catalytic? Bummer if so, I hate those things.
No, they are not. Osburn, Jotul, Osburn, Englander all have non-cat 2020 compliant stoves.
 
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