Ethics question

[Jon_E]

Yesterday I was called by a friend who owns an excavating business. In my opinion, this guy is as honest as a person can get and he is well-regarded and well-liked by all of his customers. He was clearing a lot in a nearby town and knew that I was looking for firewood. He offered to deliver "four cords" in his tandem dump truck, log-length, for $200. I said great, bring it on.

So he shows up late afternoon, loaded full with decent hardwood - mostly ash and cherry with a single massive butternut log. Laying on the ground, it sure doesn't look like four cords, but I don't say anything. It's nice firewood that all I have to do is buck and split.

As I got to thinking about it, I realized that this wasn't anywhere near four cords, and I was probably going to be lucky to get two cords out of the pile. Even giving him the benefit of the doubt, an 18-cy dump body only works out to about 3-1/2 cords when fully loaded with C/S/S firewood. That's assuming 128 CF/cord, and in reality, loose packed is closer to 170-180 CF/cord. Being log length, there's also a lot of empty space in the truck bed. Truck bed 18' long x 7' wide x 3-1/2' deep (estimated) = 441 CF.

So, I'm going to cut, split and stack on pallets and I think I should show him, because the next guy who asks for firewood, and doesn't know him as well as I do, is gonna be pretty upset when he expected 4 cords and got two. Only thing I can think of is that he's got "face cords" on his mind, which is more realistic but still not a legit unit of measure. I cut 20" long, so a face cord to me is 25% more wood than to someone who only cuts 16" long.

I'm not upset about it (especially because it's still a good deal at $100/cord even if only two cords), but I think I should warn him before he gets in trouble from someone else. What do you guys think?

 

[Ashful]

I think your last paragraph says it. Next time you see him, say exactly that. If you go seeking him out, it will sound like a complaint.

 

[chazcarr]

I'd say let him know. It is possible he just doesn't realize how much logs shrink when cut and split. If he is a good friend he will probably bring you another load.
Although here in CT, $100 per cord is about the going price for logs. I usually pay around $400 for logs that come out to about 4.5 cords.

 

[Jags]

Yep - just make him aware of the "real" numbers. If he is not a wood burner himself it is very easy to over estimate a pile of wood. "just look at all that wood" when a real burner goes "yeah, I need double that for one year".

At a storm clean up session recently I had a middle aged gent helping me load my trailer. After loaded he asked "so how many years will that last you?". I laughed and said "about point two (.2)"

 

[firefighterjake]

I think your last paragraph says it. Next time you see him, say exactly that. If you go seeking him out, it will sound like a complaint.

^^^^ This +1

 

[bfitz3]

If he is a good friend, I think you are almost obligated to share this with him, saying exactly what you said here. I'd hate to see a friend get into a dispute that could harm his credibility in the community, damaging his business. Frankly, show him this post... You were nothing but complimentary to him and aren't asking for anything from him.

 

[billb3]

I just got a load (10 wheel dump with a airlift pusher axle not sure how many cubic yards) dumped in my yard almost 3 months ago.

The pile looks like 3-4 cord, but won't know until it is all C/S/S.

When we were filling the truck ( cut down maple trees along a cranberry bog) it was obvious looking in the dump that when we dumped the 8 footers in with the tractor they all splayed out like tinker toy sticks with lots of air so we kept jumping in and knocking the pile down to take up less space. If we hadn't done that we would only have gotten half as much in.

This is a friend, after it is C/S/S I'd let him know what it worked out to. Especially if he hasn't been hauling dumping a lot of logs.

 

[BrotherBart]

"How ya doing (insert friend's name)? Got that load of nice wood bucked, split and stacked. It came out to (insert amount). I appreciate it."

 

[Jay106n]

Nothing wrong with just telling him what it was. Gives you the peace of mind and makes him a better business person in the future. If he's good he will bring you another load at no charge.

 

[Applesister]

You could do a character experiment. Tell him you want another load, or ask if he has more. He could be a great source for wood in the future...or not.
When he delivers, you could mention the 2 cord load and just see if he adjusts his price.
100.00 a cord is the going price for logs. So its not a monetary loss to you.
Your call.

 

[Applesister]

Butternut, by the way, has less heat quality than pine. Or close, but its my fav wood, I'd have it milled, I dont see it very often.
His wood at 100.00 should be solid hardwoods. If you are getting lite grade woods, your friend may be more of a businessman than a friend.
Not really a bad thing.

 

[Light in the Dark]

The truth is the truth. I know I would want to be told.

 

[Jon_E]

Well, I came home Friday night to find that he had dumped two more (slightly larger) loads in my driveway, and he called me Saturday morning and said he was on his way with yet a fourth load. The fourth load, he said, was "free" as it was only about a half load. At this point I had said nothing to him yet.

So he shows up, dumps the fourth load and I said exactly what I wrote above. He smiled and said he'd already had a customer a couple of years ago that was indeed upset, claimed that he got far less wood than was expected. I said 'well do you tell people they are getting four cords of wood for $200, or a dump truck load (quantity undetermined) for $200?' He said 'dump truck load; I tell them my estimate of how many cords I think are on the truck, and by the way I charge most people more than $200 for a load. Except for that one guy, nobody's ever complained'. I said, well I'm not complaining either, just trying to make sure you don't get in trouble.

So the four loads probably is going to work out to between 10 and 12 cords of wood, for $600. Not a bad deal. It is a pretty even mix of butternut, cherry, black birch, soft maple and ash. Few small red oak sticks too.

Best part is, for the same price, he will be clearing black locust in a few weeks and will be bringing me truckloads of sawlogs for locust boards and beams. I said I'll take all he's got to offer.

 

[Ashful]

Not bad... I've not found wood delivered at $50 - $60 per cord, around here.

 

[Applesister]

So it turned out to be a good wood source( and he knows you are savy).

 

[Jay106n]

At the end of the day you have a great deal

 

[DoubleB]

And the best part is that your friend is doing the right thing and keeping his good reputation with you and others, and he was doing that all along (although he should have communicated that better over the weekend while it appeared that he shortchanged you).

It really satisfies me when I know someone that I can wholeheartedly recommend to others, and safely put my own reputation at risk on their behalf.

 

[osagebow]

Wow, sounds like being patient paid off! Hecuva contact you got there.

 

[iamlucky13]

Even giving him the benefit of the doubt, an 18-cy dump body only works out to about 3-1/2 cords when fully loaded with C/S/S firewood. That's assuming 128 CF/cord

The basic math conversion of 18 cubic yards to cords would be 3.8 cords. From your later posts, I get the impression he took that simple number, rounded up, and glossed over the fact that logs often don't fill in empty spaces nearly as well as neatly stacked splits.

It's still a bit hazy to me how clear he's being with his other customers, but if you're satisfied based on your conversation with him, I'll leave it to your judgement.

Do you sell the locust lumber that you saw or do you have a use for it yourself?

 

[Ashful]

The basic math conversion of 18 cubic yards to cords would be 3.8 cords.

Math is correct, if you're assuming stacked. Tossed in loose, I assume 18 cu. yards in the dump truck will stack out well below 3.8 cords.

 

[BrotherBart]

Be interesting to see. Total air space in a split/stacked cord has to be a lot more than between logs in that dump bed.

 

[Jon_E]

Do you sell the locust lumber that you saw or do you have a use for it yourself?

Self. I don't like pressure-treated wood, so I use locust whenever and wherever I can for exterior projects.

 

[Jon_E]

One packed-full dump truck load of 100% black locust showed up last evening. Got a few smaller sawlogs and a few decent straight pieces for fenceposts, so I'll probably yield 1-1/2 cords of firewood from what's left over.