Evaluate tree's health (cut or not?)

[Soundchasm]

Howdy,

I've got a tall cherry tree that has dropped a limb or two for no reason other than gravity. If it comes down in the wind, it could cause damage depending on the direction it's blown. It's the last of three contiguous mature trees (70'+). The other two were hollowed out by carpenter ants, and common sense tells me this is the same.

Can an arborist or somebody take a core of the tree and evaluate it? I may just be at the bargaining stage of grief. I hate to lose this tree since it's the only shade left in the backyard. If we get another summer like the previous ones, my yard will burn to death. But if we get 40+mph winds, I'll have a lot more to cry about.

I was totally stoked to see a pileated woodpecker checking out the tree, and then I found out their preferred food is carpenter ant larva!

Any thoughts are appreciated.

 

[Applesister]

Assuming you are talking about Black cherries, it is very common characteristic of the tree to lose limbs. It is a notorious tree for dropping limbs. They are messy. Not necessarily indicating the tree is dying. I have the same problem you have, but I am completely surrounded by black cherries. I think of them as Hedgerow trees.
Carpenter ants are attracted to them. And they will weaken the base of the tree if heavily infesting. Its your call. I chose to let my trees continue to grow. Black cherry is my favorite firewood, even over apple.
Im cultivating a good firewood stash, taking a gamble...house roof vs longer tree life.
Its really your call. (they DO blow over from carpenter ant tunneling.) Yours may not have any problem at all.

 

[Soundchasm]

Black cherry, indeed! No way G Washington could cut this down with his hatchet. Being slightly demented, I've begun to assume they drop branches regularly instead of growing 60 feet straight up and then sprouting them. Won't admit how long that took to dawn on me, but it's a factor of my dementness.

I'm still shell-shocked from when a monster cherry blew over 5/10 and caused a very difficult year. I was familiar with the tree and saw zero health indications, but there was the stump, hollow as can be. I'm only on an acre, and in ten years I've had six major trees fail. At least ten are gone from when we moved in. But cherry is my favorite firewood because the neighborhood smells great, and it's a cheery wood to burn. Did I almost make a pun?

I've planted two red oaks and one white oak, and we'll add a burr oak and pignut hickory raised from seeds, and when they're too big, it won't be my problem!

Just did a quick and exhaustive search on carpenter ants. The scholarly papers claim the ants don't destroy healthy wood, but nest in the trees for shelter and remove damp, rotting wood from a crevice that already exists. So the academics claim the ants aren't hurting the trees. But you still don't want them in your house.

For the moment I might have to think that trees may just start heading towards being a liability after 60 years, at least cherry and silver maple.

Also discovered that the science of predicting falling trees is not well-defined. Too many variables. So even if somebody brings out an MRI machine, it's a bit of a SWAG. ;-)

 

[bogydave]

When in doubt, fire wood !
Heat your home with them before they test the strength of your roof .
Insurance help pay to have them removed ?

Just my opinion :
I woke up Christmas morning (years ago) with a birch tree limb thru the garage wall.
Now trees near the house are small, pruned or gone

 

[Woody Stover]

Maybe you have a county arborist there that could give you an opinion on how long it might last. Did you say this was a 70' Cherry?? Other factors might be, which way is it leaning, which way do the storm winds generally come from, etc.
I looked at the Field Guide and was interested to find that there are five geographical varieties of Black Cherry. The majority of what most of us get is the same variety, though.

http://www.wildflower.org/plants/result.php?id_plant=PRSE2

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Yes, cherry are notorious for dropping limbs; sort of like red oaks.

Also, yes, most of them have ants. But that does not mean the tree will be falling right away. I've seen them live many, many moons after being infected with the carpenter ants.

 

[ScotO]

A good arborist can tell a lot about your trees without taking any kind of samples at all.....I'd recommend you get one there to look your situation over and give you an honest, professional opinion......

Some trees can look super healthy at the trunk but can be hollowed out totally due to a rotted branch high in the tree.....other trees may show no indication of damage, but the roots may be the culprit. I've seen some MASSIVE red oak trees that looked relatively health come down because of the taproot being rotted and completely GONE...this one fell in my grandparent's former yard last summer during a storm....



It looked perfectly healthy on the outside, but the deep root (tap root) was completely rotted and gone. That rootball is approx. 11' diameter

 

[Soundchasm]

I've gotten good, solid advice on this thread. Varieties, taproots, and more. Hadn't thought of a county arborist. Don't see it specifically listed. I could call and find out.

Well, I may have the final answer. I moved some debris on an adjacent stump and found termites. I doubt they can be eradicated and that really makes the tree suspect since its two neighbors came down. Ugh... We border a woods, so management would be a constant process. I took a few pics, so I'll see if I can get them to go up.

 

[ScotO]

termites won't get into the living wood, we have to keep in mind that termites are nearly EVERYWHERE to some extent. They will go after dead wood. I'd guess one of a couple things here......maybe your soil or moisture are the real issue, or possibly the trees had a lightning strike many years ago (that would kill the center of a tree, seen it many times), or maybe damage to the roots at one point from excavating equipment, etc....

Lots of different variables. I will say one thing, if you have termites in those tree stumps, you should get your house checked just for safeguarding. I had a termite infestation in the front half of our house when we bought it (it was my great-grandparent's place and they estimated the termites had been in the house for over 30 years or more).

 

[bogydave]

Looks to have a lean.
Will it come down when & where MN wants it ?
or
Will it come down when & where you want it. ?

Either way, eventually it will come down.

 

[Soundchasm]

Those three trees have been a hotbed of activity. It's mole central under there, so maybe it's like the food court at a mall to them. Looking down the hill, a locust was to the left of the cherry, and a hackberry to the right. The hackberry took on an immense lean after a big wind, like 20 degrees, A great swelling appeared in the lawn around the stump as the root ball was coming up.

It's been a big day for me intellectually. I find out that neither termites or carpenter ants eat live wood. I went after several colonies of termites discovered when I removed railroad tie landscaping around the house. I've kept a close eye on the place and crawled around everywhere since. So something happened to those trees that simply prevented them from thriving, and then the tree structure deteriorates.

I guess I have to beat MN to the punch. She generally has first-strike capability regardless of diplomatic treaties signed...

Scotty, I'm amazed that you get to live in a place your great-grandparents owned. That must be quite a feeling.

 

[bogydave]

Birch trees here don''t do well in lawns. Their surface roots get damaged easy.
They like the woodlands.

I left some, built the lawn around them, they started dying from the top down.
Got them down while they still had some good firewood in them.

Take it out & plant some new ones, the new ones will last a long time.

 

[Soundchasm]

Take it out & plant some new ones, the new ones will last a long time.

You've just inspired my next topic post!! ;-)

 

[Trilifter7]

I just took a tree down due to hollow spots and ants. didn't know ants only eat already wet wood... good info! If you're still interested in having an ISA certified arborist check it out I would recommend Mark Webber. Never used him myself but I've heard from others that he is very knowledgable and honest.

 

[Soundchasm]

Trilifter,
I saw that name in my searches. I got the impression that ISA certified Arborists will charge $75-150/hr based on experience level, etc. Found an arborist site, and most guys sounded like they would do an inspection and write up a report, and try and do that for the one-hour charge. Sounded like the biggest problem for them was having their plans/bids/estimates poached and executed by the developer's brother-in-law for bigger problems.

Also new info for me was that they have to worry about liability if somebody makes a boo boo during one of their plans, and they are considered expert witnesses in court. I don't mind paying for a good service, though.

I know that cherry tree is a $1,000 tree to bring down safely with licensed, bonded guys, bucket, etc. It's real easy to start adding expense when you try to get a whole bunch of details done correctly, and that would include an inventory of my current trees.

 

[Mitch Newton]

Soundchasm, it's nice to see another member from the Dayton area. Good luck on the cherry tree.

 

[Trilifter7]

Trilifter,
I saw that name in my searches. I got the impression that ISA certified Arborists will charge $75-150/hr based on experience level, etc. Found an arborist site, and most guys sounded like they would do an inspection and write up a report, and try and do that for the one-hour charge. Sounded like the biggest problem for them was having their plans/bids/estimates poached and executed by the developer's brother-in-law for bigger problems.

Also new info for me was that they have to worry about liability if somebody makes a boo boo during one of their plans, and they are considered expert witnesses in court. I don't mind paying for a good service, though.

I know that cherry tree is a $1,000 tree to bring down safely with licensed, bonded guys, bucket, etc. It's real easy to start adding expense when you try to get a whole bunch of details done correctly, and that would include an inventory of my current trees.

Yea I'm sure it's not going to be cheap, but then a new roof isn't cheap either. If I were you I'd give a few of them a call and just see what they wood charge. Might even see if they would be willing include that into the cost if you have them take the tree down?

 

[Soundchasm]

Thank you Mitch! It's been a great resource for me, and very handy for me to prove to the wife that not only am I not the most "ate-up" nut in the country, but not even in my own neighborhood!! ;-)