Experiences with early VC multi-fuel stoves?

[rwh63]

i know that he early VC stoves were convertible (wood or coal) with proper kit pieces. i've come to realize that they alsop put of multi fuel stoves that seem to handle either coal or wood with additional kits pieces. they appear to be coal stoves (with the skater grate set up), but seem to able to handle coal or wood.

 

[Rob711]

Say what!?

 

[rwh63]

yeah, like this!

https://www.cozycabinstoveandfireplaceparts.com/cgi/display.cgi?item_num=1400

 

[coaly]

No convertible stove is good at both.
A stove is either built for coal with a grate that gets air up through grate as well as sides of a hopper type burn basket, or solid bottom with upper air intake for wood. The kit for the VC in question adds cast iron angled, slotted sides of a hopper to direct coal to the main grate and let air up through the side hopper plates. You "can" burn wood in them, but not efficiently as a solid bottom stove. For wood you want solid bottom with brick that admits air above the fire. You can add brick on the bottom of a coal stove and use the secondary upper air intake for wood if it has one. I don't think the VC convertible has a separate air intake above fire. Some coal stoves have only the bottom intake and metered air leaks around grate to get secondary air above the fire to ignite coal gas. (or metered leaks through glass such as European coal stoves with slats and not a one piece solid glass)

A Fisher Coal Bear is primarily a coal stove with convertible grates that are closed flat in the wood mode. They have primary air under grates for coal and use the secondary inlet on upper loading door for wood. They have a square firebox designed to bank coal deep, so need wood cut short. They are steel plate which is more durable than cast iron and not susceptible to poor castings from cheap quality stoves. They are primarily a coal stove converted to wood. Extremely difficult to find one with grates and burn basket plates in good condition if it burned coal.

The VC convertible works ok with coal, with the correct size 6 inch chimney. They don't like coal in a 8 inch or larger chimney. They don't allow coals to build up burning wood like on a solid bottom wood stove and I don't think they have an upper air intake for wood if you put bricks over grates. Again, stoves are purpose built for either fuel and always preform better with the fuel they are primarily designed for.

I've heated for years with both types, coal or wood. Added a second chimney and have a coal stove in living room and wood cook stove in kitchen. Either will heat the house, depends on getting ahead in wood for the year or taking a season off from burning wood to burn coal with no labor involved. When it's really cold, we turn down the coal stove and supplement with wood at the same time.

Neighbor had one of these VC and used wood for years. Then tried coal since they had the kit. It would not stay burning. I made sure the kit was installed properly, and the only reason I could find it not burning coal was the 8 inch chimney not getting enough heat to cause enough draft. Coal takes an enormous amount of air compared to wood, and the chimney is what makes the air rush in and up through the coal. As soon as the coal caught and chimney temp cooled, it burned sluggish and went out. You'll find burning coal has very low exhaust temps compared to wood. Only about 150* above the barometric damper. Which is another thing you want when installing the coal kit to control draft precisely.

 

[rwh63]

thx for that write up. i'm a little confused though. i've seen a few of these stoves advertised for sale locally as wood stoves. to me they had the appearance of coal stoves, and mentioned that to the sellers. they said in return that they only burned wood in them. i told them these are set up for coal, not wood!

upon further research, i came discovered that vc put out what appears to be a dual fuel stove that could handle either without modification (meaning no additional wood or coal kit). maybe it was in response to feedback at the time for a "both" stove rather than an "either/or" stove.

 

[coaly]

I only know of the kit to allow the convertible to use coal. Without the kit it burns wood just like any coal stove burns wood on the grate, fast and inefficient. There is nothing needed to burn wood in any coal stove. (Except removing barometric damper when installed) This one simply removes the hopper pieces to make the firebox bigger and calls it a wood stove without the hopper. A coal stove with bottom intake under grates and upper air for igniting coal gas above the fire can close the bottom intake and only use the upper for wood. It’s just not as good as a wood only stove since the coals and ash fall through the grate doing the fire no good. The logs still get too much oxygen, not laying in ash. Normally the upper air intake is just cracked burning coal since it takes very little oxygen to mix and ignite coal gas. Too much secondary air slips up the chimney, cooling it and reducing draft. Since I don’t think this stove has an upper air intake it is not well suited for wood. You don’t want any air coming up through the wood. You want the opposite, wood to lay in at least an inch of ash. That’s why you can’t design a stove for both without deficiencies for one or the other fuels. Different shape firebox, (Burn pot or hopper for coal compared to long narrow log shaped firebox being best for wood) different bottom material and different air requirements. A manufacturer may claim they are useable for each fuel just like you”can’” haul firewood with a car or motorcycle, just not efficiently.

Bottom line, if you want to burn coal invest in a coal stove. You need stainless pipe that is more corrosion resistant than cheaper pipe and chimney for wood, and a barometric damper. I prefer coal stoves with a gravity fed hopper inside instead of stoking through the door. You really need to know what you’re doing stoking a fire to leave a thin spot in the coal bed for a pilot light to ignite coal gas at all times. You “can” burn wood,
but the feed hopper is in the way for a large load. You can’t burn wood with the barometric damper installed and functional.

If you want a wood stove, determine if fire viewing is important, cook top size, log length desired, and best outlet configuration (top, rear, side) for the pipe configuration of your install. All these stoves are purpose built.

Most importantly size any stove to the heated area and size the stove to chimney, or chimney to stove.

 

[rwh63]

apparently called: Vermont Castings Vigilant Coal and Multifuel 1400

made between 1982-1992

 

[fbelec]

coaly a little of the track but what would happen if coal was burned without a barometric damper?

 

[Iburnslow]

I have one of these...pictured in my profile pic....I didn't know the difference between the multi-fuel stove and single purpose, and bought this on FB market place. It's in good shape for it's age. But it rips through firewood like crazy because of the coal configuration. I burned my first coal fire last night, and the output was low and it went out this morning...reading above it probably is because of the 8 inch stove pipe, not creating a strong enough draft...dammit. I love the stove, but I think it's just all wrong. I'm wondering now if I could put a 6" reducer on the stove exhaust pipe to increase the draft and simply burn coal with it?

 

[defiant3]

You can extend burn times a bit by covering the grate with a solid steel or iron plate. Don't cover completely, but like 80% or so. Easy thing to tty. Also, it can be converted to woodstove only, though it's not exactly easy.

 

[Bmutts20]

No convertible stove is good at both.
A stove is either built for coal with a grate that gets air up through grate as well as sides of a hopper type burn basket, or solid bottom with upper air intake for wood. The kit for the VC in question adds cast iron angled, slotted sides of a hopper to direct coal to the main grate and let air up through the side hopper plates. You "can" burn wood in them, but not efficiently as a solid bottom stove. For wood you want solid bottom with brick that admits air above the fire. You can add brick on the bottom of a coal stove and use the secondary upper air intake for wood if it has one. I don't think the VC convertible has a separate air intake above fire. Some coal stoves have only the bottom intake and metered air leaks around grate to get secondary air above the fire to ignite coal gas. (or metered leaks through glass such as European coal stoves with slats and not a one piece solid glass)

A Fisher Coal Bear is primarily a coal stove with convertible grates that are closed flat in the wood mode. They have primary air under grates for coal and use the secondary inlet on upper loading door for wood. They have a square firebox designed to bank coal deep, so need wood cut short. They are steel plate which is more durable than cast iron and not susceptible to poor castings from cheap quality stoves. They are primarily a coal stove converted to wood. Extremely difficult to find one with grates and burn basket plates in good condition if it burned coal.

The VC convertible works ok with coal, with the correct size 6 inch chimney. They don't like coal in a 8 inch or larger chimney. They don't allow coals to build up burning wood like on a solid bottom wood stove and I don't think they have an upper air intake for wood if you put bricks over grates. Again, stoves are purpose built for either fuel and always preform better with the fuel they are primarily designed for.

I've heated for years with both types, coal or wood. Added a second chimney and have a coal stove in living room and wood cook stove in kitchen. Either will heat the house, depends on getting ahead in wood for the year or taking a season off from burning wood to burn coal with no labor involved. When it's really cold, we turn down the coal stove and supplement with wood at the same time.

Neighbor had one of these VC and used wood for years. Then tried coal since they had the kit. It would not stay burning. I made sure the kit was installed properly, and the only reason I could find it not burning coal was the 8 inch chimney not getting enough heat to cause enough draft. Coal takes an enormous amount of air compared to wood, and the chimney is what makes the air rush in and up through the coal. As soon as the coal caught and chimney temp cooled, it burned sluggish and went out. You'll find burning coal has very low exhaust temps compared to wood. Only about 150* above the barometric damper. Which is another thing you want when installing the coal kit to control draft precisely.

Do you have any idea where I can find the steel liners for a coal bear? All of the plates in the stove that I found are burnt out pretty bad.

 

[Rich W.]

I have one of these...pictured in my profile pic....I didn't know the difference between the multi-fuel stove and single purpose, and bought this on FB market place. It's in good shape for it's age. But it rips through firewood like crazy because of the coal configuration. I burned my first coal fire last night, and the output was low and it went out this morning...reading above it probably is because of the 8 inch stove pipe, not creating a strong enough draft...dammit. I love the stove, but I think it's just all wrong. I'm wondering now if I could put a 6" reducer on the stove exhaust pipe to increase the draft and simply burn coal with it?

I have both Vigilant coal stoves (1400 and 2310) and burn coal successfully in both. Both of mine have 6” outlets. One is top exhaust, straight up 6” all the way. The other (the 1400) is rear exhaust, into the fireplace, and six feet into the flue tiles. The chimney is central in the house which helps. Let me know if I can help you master these fine stoves.

 

[coaly]

Do you have any idea where I can find the steel liners for a coal bear? All of the plates in the stove that I found are burnt out pretty bad.

View attachment 286072 View attachment 286073 View attachment 286074

This was just discussed in the Fisher Forum.
You will be better off making them from steel plate and cutting your own slots.

Coal Bear Restoration

I took advantage of a rainy day today and cleaned the rust off my coal bear. I've already applied 2-3 heavy coats of PB Blaster every few days for the past week and a half, so the rust was pretty loose. The rotating grates are in good shape but the liners are not. I removed the liners, grates...

www.hearth.com