Extremely Anxious Hearth Heater Owner with Questions

[orange56]

Greetings All!
I have recently purchased a hearth heater (Regency H2100 Hearth Heater) and it was installed using a liner within an existing brick chimney. I am new to the game of heating with wood and I am anxious about the various practices endorsed by friends and strangers alike. My wife found your web site (hearth.com) and I hope you will be able to answer some of my questions and put some of my fears at ease. (Please forgive me in advance if I ramble.)
(1) When I have a hot fire burning, with lots of flame and whatnot, the stove begins to pop and ping, sometimes rather frequently and loud. Is this normal?
(2) How can I tell if I am overfiring the stove, or burning too hot a fire? The gentleman that sold me the stove suggested that if I was overfiring I may smell burnt dust. This evening while burning a fire my wife and I noticed an odor that was sweet, if anything. We were burning white birch at the time, but for the life of me I cannot find online what each type of wood may smell like whilst being burned. Is it possible that I was just smelling the firewood, or am I burning too hot? How can I tell if I am burning too hot if I have no way of seeing my chimney pipe? I have considered a stovetop thermometer, but there is a pocket of air between the lining of the interior of the stove and the actual stovetop, so I am not sure if this would be helpful or accurate.
(3) What should I be looking for in a good fire? I have a friend who simply pushes, literally, his firebox full of wood and then leaves his damper open 1/4", admittedly smoldering the fire all day/night long. I have read that this is harmful to the environment, bad for creosote buildup, and an inefficient way to utilize one's wood supply. But what should a good fire look like when settling down for the night or leaving it for the day? Should there be flame? Should it just be glowing coals? To be honest, I am very nervous filling my firebox up with wood because each time I pile a lot of wood onto hot coals I get a large, flaming fire that engulfs the wood. That is not to say all of the wood is burning at one time, but my firebox is full of flames and restricting the air via the damper doesn't seem to lessen the amount of flames--we apparently have really good draft--it just seems to slow the flicker of the flames (if that makes sense). Should I be worried about that much flame? It is at this point that the stove really pings and pops and becomes extremely hot (e.g., the air two or three inches above the stove is very hot), and I feel that I cannot leave it unattended (which is why I am currently awake and scouring the internet for advice). I have been using smaller pieces of firewood of late because that is what I have available, but other than that I am not sure why nobody else seems to have their packed fireboxes engulfed in flames.
(4) Does anyone know how much electricity a blower consumes? Should I avoid using the blower (i.e., will the radiant heat be enough)?

Happily I have not yet burned the house down, but since I am unfamiliar with proper stove practice I am a nervous wreck thinking that I may be overheating my stove and callously endangering my family. I grew up in a household with an old Kent insert and an open masonry fireplace (both of which I used frequently) and I never seemed to be so paranoid as I am right now. Any advice or help you can offer me would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time. Cheers.

 

[edthedawg]

orange56,

Welcome to the Hearth!

check out https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/10998/ for info on running your stove. you need to monitor stovetop temps, definitely. ticks and pings are fine. efficiency comes w/ hot running. blowers = good (usually).

for long runs overnight or at work, it's best to go full-bore inferno mode for a bit - get it there and keep it for 10 minutes - then back the primary down slowly to almost fully "off" if not completely "shut".

biggest thing - ALWAYS - is wood quality. almost no substitutes.

good luck, enjoy, and welcome once again

 

[Pagey]

Welcome to the forums. I don't have direct experience with your stove, but I can give you my insight based on my EPA certified stove.

1.) Pings are very much normal with my stove. It will ping and peck a lot when warming up from a cold stove. As the stove reaches its "cruising" temp, the pings will diminish. It may ping again as it begins to cool at the end of the burn cycle.

2.) Looking at a pic of your insert, there appears to be enough of the top sticking out to place a magnetic stove thermometer. They are definitely worth a few bucks. Look on Amazon for stove thermometer, and you can pick up a Rutland or a Condar pretty cheap. Keep in mind, however, that the "over fire" zone on them is meant for a single wall stove pipe, not necessarily your stove's temperature range. Your manufacturer may specify a temp in the manual. For example, my Endeavor's manual states "generally, anything over 800F is considered overfiring the stove". I've also read that if the stove glows or becomes red, it is overfiring - never actually seen this happen, nor do I wish to!

3.) A good fire in my stove involves getting a good, active secondary combustion. My stove features a "bypass damper" that, when slid open, lets flue gases/smoke go straight up the chimney. Once I start with a cold stove and reach about 400F on the stove top, I can slide it closed, and I will almost always have secondary combustion immediately. I then begin lowering the amount of primary combustion air over a period of about 20 minutes. Doing this makes sure my secondary combustion remains bright and active. By the time I get the air about 80-85% closed, the stove is cruising around 600-650F, depending on the type of wood and how full I load her. Here's a video from a forum member showing nice secondary combustion in his Jotul Oslo. See the flames above the fire? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6fXfjVQ9hE&feature=related When my stove is doing that, I have plenty of heat, and zero smoke out the chimney.

4.) Don't use one, so I cannot comment, sorry.

Hope this helps!

 

[fredarm]

The blower doesn't use much electricity.

 

[webbie]

The pings are usually caused by stresses in the lighter gauge sheet metals that form the outside convection chamber. When the units heats up, the metals expand and contract at different rates and cause the noises...usually no harm done....

 

[tiber]

Does it smell like pavement or asphalt but less acrid?

If you say, "Hm, smells sorta like pavement" then it's creosote.

EDIT: Let me explain my thinking better. Your existing chimney may have creosote in it. Your stainless liner merely provides the correct draft and some insulation, but it's not as efficient as a double/triple walled class A pipe. It will get hot. The heat then heats up the creosote. Not to the point of ignition, obviously, but warm enough you might be smelling it.

Or it could just be the paint curing.

 

[orange56]

Thank you all for your responses. I am pleased to have found a location where I can have my rational/irrational worries addressed by knowledgeable individuals.

After having read the other thread it appears that, despite the belief of the salesman, a stovetop thermometer would be advisable and, if not accurate, informative.

The smell coming out of the stove was not acrid at all; it smelled like someone baking sweet bread or something. I would have figured the stove/paint curing to smell unbearable, not sweet--which is why we figure it must be the wood, despite the fact nobody can account for what white birch smells like when burned.

Am I to take from the video reference that the rolling, licking flames at the top of the interior of my stove represent my secondary combustion? And that's a good thing, right?

Finally, if EPA stoves do not allow a fire to be starved of oxygen to always ensure a clean--or cleaner--burn, what does one do if the stove does start to overfire? Should I have a fire extinguisher on hand? What about these so-called chimney flares? I do not intend to ever overfire the stove, but what can one do if it does occur?

Once again, thank you for your time in assisting me. Cheers.

 

[firefighterjake]

Welcome to the forum . . . you live in a truly beautiful place by the way . . . great place to vacation.

1) Popping and pinging is normal . . . you often get this from the metal in a stove heating up (and sometimes in cooling down) . . . big, loud gun-shot-like explosions however would be a cause for concern . . . but it sounds like you're getting the normal sounds from a woodstove heating up.

2) Avoiding an over-fire . . . really the thing here is you need to get a stove top thermometer (I have a Condar . . . another well known brand is Rutland) -- you can pick these up at most hardware stores or the stove shop . . . find out from the manual or dealer where you bought the stove as to where to place the thermometer (some companies are specific as to where to place the thermometer) and also what temp is considered "over-firing" since these temps vary with the make/manufacturer.

The smell you describe could be one of several things . . . creosote possibly, smoke escaping from a badly drafting stove . . . but honestly, if you've just fired this stove up I would suspect it's the smell of the paint and oils curing . . . the smell will go away . . . until you reach a higher temp. For example, to break in my stove and cure the paint I did three break-in fires . . . each time I would get the stove a bit hotter than the time before. Now it is true you may smell a smell like burnt dust if you over-fire . . . but that's simplifying things . . . that can be true . . . but often it means the stove is either a) reaching a higher temp than it has reached before (common in the curing process), b) the stove is being used for the first time in a long time and in fact is burning off dust, c) you repainted or polished the stove and the stove is curing the paint/polish or d) you've reached a higher temp than the stove has reached before -- but now you're in the over-fire temp zone (which is why you need to have a thermometer and know what the over fire temp is according to the manufacturer.) As I said, I suspect you've just fired up this stove and you'r smelling the paint curing.

3) What's a good fire? A good fire is one that heats your home . . . one that doesn't lead to the stove being over-fired or your stove not working efficiently and causing a lot of creosote build up in the chimney . . . a fire that stays in the stove and doesn't burn up your home.

As to what this fire looks like . . . it depends . . . on what stage of burning the fire is in . . . and how warm you want the house. For me, a good fire (once going) putting out a lot of heat will look like a) the Bowels of Hell have been unleashed in the upper 1/3 of my firebox, b) somehow I have captured the Northern Lights in my firebox as there is a little bit of flame, but every few seconds a burst of "Northern Lights" looking flame puffs into existence in the upper 1/3 of my firebox or c) it looks like I have hooked up a propane heater to my woodstove as blue jets of flame are streaking out of the secondary burn tubes at the top of the firebox. Of course, if there are just coals (the end stage of burning) I often will not have any of these things happening . . . but I can still have a good fire going. The key for me is to see what the temps are in the flue . . . or for a new burner . . . go outside and see if there is little to no smoke coming from the chimney. No smoke generally means you're burning cleanly and efficiently.

4) Don't know about the blowers and electricity use.

 

[Pagey]

Thank you all for your responses. I am pleased to have found a location where I can have my rational/irrational worries addressed by knowledgeable individuals.

After having read the other thread it appears that, despite the belief of the salesman, a stovetop thermometer would be advisable and, if not accurate, informative.

The smell coming out of the stove was not acrid at all; it smelled like someone baking sweet bread or something. I would have figured the stove/paint curing to smell unbearable, not sweet--which is why we figure it must be the wood, despite the fact nobody can account for what white birch smells like when burned.

Am I to take from the video reference that the rolling, licking flames at the top of the interior of my stove represent my secondary combustion? And that's a good thing, right?

Finally, if EPA stoves do not allow a fire to be starved of oxygen to always ensure a clean--or cleaner--burn, what does one do if the stove does start to overfire? Should I have a fire extinguisher on hand? What about these so-called chimney flares? I do not intend to ever overfire the stove, but what can one do if it does occur?

Once again, thank you for your time in assisting me. Cheers.

Yes, a thermometer just gives you a good idea about where your stove is operating, even if it's not 100% accurate down to the last tenth of a degree. Are they necessary? No. But I like having mine because then I KNOW when the stove is doing something unusual.

Yes, the rolling, licking secondary combustion flames are a good thing. Those flames are caused by the wood smoke/gases igniting and burning. This means: 1.) more heat per load of wood and 2.) cleaner burns (less creosote and fewer emissions).

Finally, in the event of an overfire, most will tell you to close the primary air completely down. I know that my stove will not maintain active secondary combustion with the air closed fully. Some people's will, but mine just won't. Also, if you have a fan, you can blow the heat off the stove with a fan to help cool things in an overfire situation. Some people have gone so far as to fashion a way to close off the secondary air on their stoves using foil or other methods, but that usually involves accessing something on the back of the stove. You probably can't do that with an insert, and of course modifying the stove can/will void any warranty.

The chimney flares, I believe, are meant to be inserted into the cleanout door of a chimney during an actual chimney fire. Though you could, in theory, open the door of a stove and insert one, you do run the risk of a backdraft type situation where opening the door will let the combustion gases explode in your face when they meet all that fresh oxygen.

I've had a couple of scary situations with my stove, and they seem to occur on nights with very cold temps and/or lots of wind. I just closed the primary all the way down and turned the ceiling fan on high (counter clock wise to blow cool air down). Both times the stove eventually cooled down. It can be nerve wracking, but those events are rare.

 

[orange56]

firefighterjake - Yes, Cape Breton Island is a truly beautiful place, if only it would just stop raining every day so I could enjoy my autumn proper. As for the pinging and popping, everyone continually states that it is something that happens as the stove heats up and/or cools down, but my experience has been that I get the loudest and most frequent popping when the stove is piping hot (i.e., after I have been burning wood for a while). I cannot say whether it is as loud as a gunshot or not as I have never fired a gun (or been around such) and I am not getting any explosions that I can see, but when the stove is hot there are very loud bangs and metallic pops coming from the stove, loud enough for me to hear upstairs while in bed. Right now I am heating up the stove and there are little clicks and whatnot, but it is when the stove is really cooking that I get the most disconcerting noises, some of which are loud enough--and unexpected--to spook me.

Pagey - I will definitely be heading out today to pick up a stovetop thermometer. I asked about the chimney flares because of the fact that I was aware I shouldn't open up the firebox door when overfiring--or even during a strong fire with the damper in--so I didn't know people had suggested them (not on this site, but elsewhere). I was unaware of their use in a cleanout drawer in a chimney, which I obviously don't have.

One thing that did occur to me is how I build my fire. I have read that I should be raking the coals toward the air intake and then placing wood behind the coals, allowing the fire to burn through the front piece, then the next, and so on without consuming all of the wood. Could my engulfing flames be the result of placing my wood on top of coals so that all the new wood is in contact with hot coals? In my scenario, I believe I may be igniting all of the wood at one time, which I assume leads to increased temperatures within the stove.

 

[firefighterjake]

Thank you all for your responses. I am pleased to have found a location where I can have my rational/irrational worries addressed by knowledgeable individuals.

After having read the other thread it appears that, despite the belief of the salesman, a stovetop thermometer would be advisable and, if not accurate, informative.

The smell coming out of the stove was not acrid at all; it smelled like someone baking sweet bread or something. I would have figured the stove/paint curing to smell unbearable, not sweet--which is why we figure it must be the wood, despite the fact nobody can account for what white birch smells like when burned.

Am I to take from the video reference that the rolling, licking flames at the top of the interior of my stove represent my secondary combustion? And that's a good thing, right?

Finally, if EPA stoves do not allow a fire to be starved of oxygen to always ensure a clean--or cleaner--burn, what does one do if the stove does start to overfire? Should I have a fire extinguisher on hand? What about these so-called chimney flares? I do not intend to ever overfire the stove, but what can one do if it does occur?

Once again, thank you for your time in assisting me. Cheers.

Yes, a thermometer just gives you a good idea about where your stove is operating, even if it's not 100% accurate down to the last tenth of a degree. Are they necessary? No. But I like having mine because then I KNOW when the stove is doing something unusual.

Yes, the rolling, licking secondary combustion flames are a good thing. Those flames are caused by the wood smoke/gases igniting and burning. This means: 1.) more heat per load of wood and 2.) cleaner burns (less creosote and fewer emissions).

Finally, in the event of an overfire, most will tell you to close the primary air completely down. I know that my stove will not maintain active secondary combustion with the air closed fully. Some people's will, but mine just won't. Also, if you have a fan, you can blow the heat off the stove with a fan to help cool things in an overfire situation. Some people have gone so far as to fashion a way to close off the secondary air on their stoves using foil or other methods, but that usually involves accessing something on the back of the stove. You probably can't do that with an insert, and of course modifying the stove can/will void any warranty.

The chimney flares, I believe, are meant to be inserted into the cleanout door of a chimney during an actual chimney fire. Though you could, in theory, open the door of a stove and insert one, you do run the risk of a backdraft type situation where opening the door will let the combustion gases explode in your face when they meet all that fresh oxygen.

I've had a couple of scary situations with my stove, and they seem to occur on nights with very cold temps and/or lots of wind. I just closed the primary all the way down and turned the ceiling fan on high (counter clock wise to blow cool air down). Both times the stove eventually cooled down. It can be nerve wracking, but those events are rare.

+1 . . . as usual . . . an outstanding post by Pagey.

 

[Pagey]

I personally lay out an even coal bed rather than raking them all to the front. When I have a good fire going, the fire box is full of flames during the early stages of the fire, even with the primary air cut down pretty low. This is simply the result of the wood gases igniting and burning. During this time, it's not unusual too see my stove top climb from 400F to 650F. In fact, once the secondary combustion kicks in, you SHOULD see your stove top temp rise. Smoke burns at around 1,100F, and all that action is taking place near the top of the stove. If you weren't seeing an increase in temps along with strong secondary, I'd argue you probably have wet wood.

It sounds to me like your stove is performing the way it should.