FAIR Install Price

[Drew1024]

For those of you with vertical installs through the ceiling and roof, what did you pay? I think I may be getting hosed. I need about 15 ft of pipe with a cathedral cap.

 

[webbie]

Assuming a pellet stove?
The labor on a job like that, including:
Delivery of stove
install of pipe
setup of stove on hearth
possibly testing stove

Would probably run from $600-$900 LABOR.

Piping materials can vary - some grades are better than other (for corn and pellets), black pipe cost more and elbos are high.
Taking a stab at it, I would say $350 to $400 worth of pipe.

Does that sound right?

 

[pellet0708]

Cost me $400.00 to do a similar vertical run myself for just parts.

 

[MCPO]

My new electric dryer from Sears was delivered and carried into the basement then setup and leveled with a new cord attached plus the existing vent re-connected and all tested . They also disconnected and removed and disposed of the old one . Cost was $100 of which I got a $75 rebate. Disposal charges for white goods are $25 at our recycling center regardless.
Basically these are $500 items with smaller markups than a pellet stove. This example cost for any household appliance is usually similar with any seller in our area. It might vary slightly from one place to another but this is the result of good honest competition.
Why is it so many stove dealers charge for delivery and setting in place?
Obviously mat`ls and labor to vent a stove is another story and has to be charged accordingly but delivery and setting in place should be part of the stove cost and a dealers overhead not an add on.
Me thinks some dealers intentionally separate all these associated necessities just to extract every last cent they can.

 

[webbie]

Gio,

Comparing a delivery and plug-in in a competitive market.....to cutting though a roof - doesn't make sense. Just about any strong back can deliver a machine and hook up two hoses. Not anyone can cut through a roof and place shingles.

You have to compare stove installation to carpentry or plumbing work. Most of these trades work at somewhere from $80 an hour (very low end) for a man and a truck, to $150 an hour for two men and a truck, and that included travel time. If you work out the numbers, you will see that is what is needed when everything from health care to insurance is taken into account.

I have also bought furniture and a mattress lately - $85 to $95 to deliver and set in place....that is at a BIG mattress places.

"Good honest competition" these days does not mean one dealer competing against another. It means GE, a multi-national corporations doing 100% of the work for supplying and delivering Home Depot appliances. Sure, we like the savings, but Main Street cannot compete with Wal-Mart of Home Depot in some areas. These companies squeeze their vendors, pay WAY less than a living wage, etc.

In general, I either DIY (ends up being 75% plus of the time), or pay the piper. When I do pay the piper, I just think about all the money I saved by DIY over the years.

 

[Steveo]

There is also a huge difference between a washer & dryer and a pellet stove when it comes to delivery. My wife and I can move a washer and dryer but you almost need three men and a boy to move my P68.

 

[MCPO]

Gio,

Comparing a delivery and plug-in in a competitive market.....to cutting though a roof - doesn't make sense. Just about any strong back can deliver a machine and hook up two hoses. Not anyone can cut through a roof and place shingles.

You have to compare stove installation to carpentry or plumbing work. Most of these trades work at somewhere from $80 an hour (very low end) for a man and a truck, to $150 an hour for two men and a truck, and that included travel time. If you work out the numbers, you will see that is what is needed when everything from health care to insurance is taken into account.

I have also bought furniture and a mattress lately - $85 to $95 to deliver and set in place....that is at a BIG mattress places.

"Good honest competition" these days does not mean one dealer competing against another. It means GE, a multi-national corporations doing 100% of the work for supplying and delivering Home Depot appliances. Sure, we like the savings, but Main Street cannot compete with Wal-Mart of Home Depot in some areas. These companies squeeze their vendors, pay WAY less than a living wage, etc.

eneral, I either DIY (ends up being 75% plus of the time), or pay the piper. When I do pay the piper, I just think about all the money I saved by DIY over the years.

You might want to read my comments again. A pellet stove is a plug in appliance too and I made mention that labor and materials to vent a stove must be considered. Not unlike having to wire and vent a dryer or plumbing for a washer. It takes 2 men to deliver a stove , washer, and dryer too. I can get any of these delivered free or for a minimum cost Yes ,even a mattress and boxspring. It`s usually considered part of the transaction and an incentive to make the sale.

Yeah, the big companies squeeze the vendors and some of you small stove companies squeeze the customer. Maybe you guys ought to start sqeezing the vendors too ?

 

[webbie]

Yeah, the big companies squeeze the vendors and some of you small stove companies squeeze the customer. Maybe you guys ought to start sqeezing the vendors too ?

As mentioned, I recently had appliances delivered from two big boxes, a mattress from sleepys and some furniture from a major seller - none free. There is no such thing as free.....maybe you could call it included.

As to who is squeezed, I would ask two questions:

1. is anyone forcing you to buy a stove or have it installed (no)
2. What do you consider a fair price for delivery, setup, installation, through the roof, testing and the warranty that comes with that (when a company installs something, they somewhat "own" it)?

Heck, I pay $15 (with tip) for a haircut that takes 10 minutes. That's $90 an hour.

The attitude of squeezing everyone along the line ends us up with all our products being made in China and Mexico (because US workers will not be squeezed that hard) - I know it feels good to save money, but at the same time I believe in paying a skilled laborer what they are worth (and what it costs to live).

Anyway, we have not yet heard what price was quoted (for this thread) that the poster considers high. Knowing the price would help make a determination.

 

[pelletfan]

it's quite difficult to comment on this board and say that's a fair price!! It will only be a guess.

For some professionals it's is a piece of cake to do a certain Stove installation, for some other ones it is difficult and they will charge more.
What most people forget that labor has to be paid too - it's not free.

Don't start comparing apples and oranges like my washmachine installation.
Different Industry - different rules!

If you have a feeling you get hosed, why don't you talk to your dealer and discuss the issue with him. Speak up!

Your project is already starting with a sour grape. Not good. Very simple - get another estimate
and see from there how to proceed.

 

[metpound]

webmaster,
By the looks of your avatar you haven't paid for one of those $15 haircuts in quiete a while.
ha ha

 

[coreystaf]

I manage a Hearth store, and install wood, gas and pellet stoves. On average I charge 400$ labor plus 1$ per mile for a typical new install, any fuel. It seems that our labor prices here are less than in your area. Average price for vertical, single story pellet stove installation would be about 300-450$ in parts.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

I'm in North Central NJ, may be a similar labor market to yours, Drew1024. I paid an experienced installer $650 to install my Quad Insert, wood. So I agree with the labor range stated by Craig is in the range for rural NJ.

 

[humpin iron]

Gio

I have seen other posts by you. I have an idea, why don't you offer to pay a weeks fuel bill, a weeks pay roll tax, a weeks liability insurance, etc, etc, in exchange for a free install. At my shop I would go for that deal.
Let me guess, your not self employed

 

[MCPO]

Gio

I have seen other posts by you. I have an idea, why don't you offer to pay a weeks fuel bill, a weeks pay roll tax, a weeks liability insurance, etc, etc, in exchange for a free install. At my shop I would go for that deal.
Let me guess, your not self employed

Surprise! I`ve been an electrician thoughout my career. I retired at 61 and for a good part of my career I was in fact a successful self employed electrician with one employee, a relatively small proprietorship operation.
I always made a good industry competitive wage without having to resort to ripping the customer off or taking advantage of situations as some stove extortionists are presently doing . I always made it a point to do emergency storm damage repairs at standard rates when I could have extracted double or more given the person`s situation.
I rarely ever asked for or received money up front for materials or labor and was fortunate to almost always get paid after a percentage of work was performed or the job completed. That was in great part due to my business expertise and knowing my customers . I too had overhead , liability insurance , workman`s comp, new truck payments and rent. I financed my own business and didn`t depend on up front customer money to keep my business afloat.
My repeat customer rate was very high and advertising wasn`t necessary as word of mouth is the best. I always thought of myself as not only a good electrician but a good businesman. You have to be both to sustain a living as a business proprietor.
I know that the labor rates are somewhat now higher since I retired but I know numerous licensed plumbers or electricians that charge from $60-$75 an hour . Personally I think more than that is being kinda excessive in a rural community even for a skilled tradesman.
I question anyone telling me that he must charge and pay his labor force wages and benefits equal to that of a skilled tradesman to deliver and install a pellet stove . It`s not a skilled trade and the fact that you do pay these kind of wages for this type of work tells me you are not a wise business man and you would not make it in any competitive business.
However, I`d make an allowance for having a trained serviceman on the payroll.
Bottom line is I resent over inflated , rip off prices like $950 labor and $950 materials for a pellet stove vent installation by a stove shop that could have been accomplished by anyone possessing average homeowner skills and a $69 reciprocating saw.
All this after the sale of the stove itself? IMO it`s plain ole greed.
Ever wonder why Englander stove sells so many?

 

[JPapiPE]

O.K., Lets not start a pissing contest here boys...we are all friends here. My local stove shop thieves get $750 for an installion plus parts which they mark up 30%. No matter how simple the installation ...$750 Clams or Lobsters if one is so inclined. (yep Maine Lobsters are at an all time low of $4.99/#for chickens,i.e., soft shelled, less meat variety)

Oh, and Craig I just purchased my componets from VentPipe.com for a 12 foot run and the damage was $785 for parts and freight....This is a straight shot from the top of the stove to the rain cap. I am not including the $168 I spent for a silicone rubber corrugated flexible roof boot( because i have a corrugated metal roof), or the $100 I spent for a 3' custom made cricket by Woodmans Parts Plus..( because i live in snow country and 150" a year is not unusual).or the money i'll have to spend for a 3" flex hose to do an outside air intake..

My woodseller told me after my 4th cord delivery , that he wasn't taking on any more orders until Sept., as he and his co-op buddies thought that firewood might fetch $350 a cord come cold season.

That's Life, that's what all the people say. You're riding high in April and seriously shot down in May

By the way, Tony Bennett is 82 today.

 

[stejus]

i was quoted $400 for an install and $300 in parts to install a standard 5ft up then direct vent out 2ft out. This is before having someone come out and look at the job. I may want to go all the way up so this will add to the cost of labor and materials.

 

[JPapiPE]

$ 400 is peanuts ...I'd have them do the dirty work for so little a price....because with that price comes a garantee that your stove was installed professionally, and if your house burns down because of your stove...it's an easy jump to blame the installers......$400 is cheap man , they want $750 for an install where I live in maine,
just my opinion, joe

 

[webbie]

Oh, and Craig I just purchased my componets from VentPipe.com for a 12 foot run and the damage was $785 for parts and freight....This is a straight shot from the top of the stove to the rain cap.

JP, we are talking pellet pipe here, much cheaper.......

As to the labor rates, they always vary.....again, as long as you are not having a gun held to your head, it is business as usual and fair game. I don't know too many stove installers who live in mansions, so I would assume they are making the same as other hard working construction trades....

I do take exception to Gios idea of all these rip-off artists. Rip-off artists are the folks who sell stuff, take deposits and then disappear....or the folks who fix roofs that then leak worse. They are not hard working folks who get up at 7am, load up the truck, deliver stoves and cut through walls and ceilings......or at least I've never met those types.

Some contractors charge more than others...same with doctors. Some pilots make 30K a year, and others 200K +.

I think the installers for the cable company charge about $60 an hour, but they only MAKE about $12 an hour. That is not nearly a living wage. There is a BIG difference between what a business charges and what a worker makes....but I don't suppose that needs explaining here.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

That's why there's so much DIY going on, and you don't have to pay income tax on money saved. But, I don't do high work on a steep roof, so I hired my insert installation. Overall I think the price was fair...maybe even a little low given all the equipment and people involved. If I had a one story house I'd gone DIY.

 

[humpin iron]

Craig
Your post is pretty much on the money, thank you.

FYI: The rule in medical treatment is that an X-ray machine is paid for in one year, from then on it's profit. Seen any Dr.'s lowering their rate.

Saw a post the other day where a guy bragged about having done over 100 hrs of research to buy chimney. Then got the wrong parts twice. (bought over the web) At $5 per hr thats over $500 dollars. What if he had gone to an established hearth store, with a solid reputation. Could have gotten parts, knowledge and some tricks of the trade in about an hr, job done in a day. If more parts were needed the local store is there. Did the guy save more than $500 by going over the net? And 100 hrs, I wish I had that kind of time to spare.

Gio OK so you were a small operation. Question: what percentage do you think the avg stove shop makes on stoves and parts?

 

[pellet0708]

Only problem with the local shops: I went to three and each pushed their own product which is fine but ran down lines of pipe the other stores carried and called them junk. So no further ahead than researching online and getting different opinions. Plus the small shops don't put prices on anything. They do some "magic" calculating at the computer in the end so it makes it very difficult to compare prices and it is hard to stand there and ask the indiv. price for each little part with a long line of customers behind you. I am sometimes driven to the big box stores simply because I can see posted prices and do comparisons.

I went back to the local guy because for a chimney I really felt I needed the experienced advice. But again got conflicting advice even from the different workers in the store.

The bottom line is you still need to research and be an informed buyer!

 

[Jerry_NJ]

In my experience it is always good to get a bit in writing, with details. My install was quoted with HomeSaver Ultrapro liner, an expensive liner. When the installer arrived he had a substitute, Duraflex, less expensive. I brought this to the attention of the dealer and told him what a difference in part cast that makes, I did the research. He reduced the price to me by approximately that amount.

I"ll given him the benefit of the doubt, assuming he sends the install out with whatever he has "in stock"...and doesn't look at the paperwork, i.e., most times he doesn't quote the brand, I asked the sales man to do just that, how else can I compare prices? Still I think had I not gotten the bid in writing and had I not checked on the installation I'd have paid a couple hundred more for parts, paid for a Buick and got a Chevrolet. This analogy will work only for the old timers here, the young folks all buy Japanese, German, Korean branded cars.

 

[JPapiPE]

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to interrupt your post as i though the subject was the cost of wood stove installation...again $750 plus parts

 

[begreen]

I also did about a 10 yr stint as an independent electrician and appreciate not gouging customers because of emergency situations. That was my philosophy too. I had a lot of seniors as customers and always tried to give them the benefit of the doubt and didn't prey on their fears or the situation. But I never had any qualms about getting a materials deposit for a large job. It's one thing to lose you labor costs due to a fickle customer, but another thing to have to front the materials for them.

 

[JPapiPE]

I also, as a journeyman carpenter, always got money for materials, but I never got cheated in 35 years. I did have to make a few concessions over the years. I think the most was a couple hundred when the dumpster did some damage while being hauled away in the mud. My first law was " Get your money right with the customer" And by that i mean establish a price (written contract) and get the customers permission before doing additional work that adds to the contract price.
Quite simple but often ignored, so contractors have a reputation as bad as lawyers.