Fireplace facade brick cement?

[vig1116]

Hey guys, total newb here looking for help. I am pretty handy at most, expert at none type. I am currently in a DIY fireplace project since the estimates i am getting are 4-5k for a very small job. In the pic you will see i have the hearth in place and I'm ready to build a brick surround around the fire box to then put ledger board to the bricks. The bricks will be 12" on the sides and top, about 1/2" from the stone that you see in the pic. So, what cement should be good for this? Originally i was just going to use fire cement to be on the safe side, but all i could find were small 1/2 gallon pre mixed buckets, and it would take me a ridiculous amount of buckets to do this. I think that's overkill though because this is a facade, not the inside of the firebox. What do you think i should be using? Thanks guys



PS I tried to keep the story short, but i want you to get the whole picture. The opening you see is 38" high so i am building the brick to about 30" then using a steel L brace to span the width then brick 12" up from there. Also, i was just going to use the fire cement on the areas that will see direct sight of the fire when lit. (for instance, the back side of the bricks that are on the steel brace and the inner brick near the openings.)

 

[Lake Girl]

Welcome to the forum. Sorry no one got back to you on this. There are some sweeps that are members that should be able to give the best recommendations on this. Hopefully they will chime in soon...

 

[begreen]

I think you can uses type N or S masonry cement, but suggest you start a conversation with @jotul? for specifics. He is a bricklayer by trade.

 

[vig1116]

thanks for the replies guys. Didn't see them until today. I went ahead and started today and i used typs s. I hope i am doing it right so i don't have to redo this in a few years. here's what 5 hours got me that an expert prob woud've taken 1 hour... lol PS don't mind the sloppy job, i am putting stone ledger board pieces on top of the brick...

 

[Jo191145]

thanks for the replies guys. Didn't see them until today. I went ahead and started today and i used typs s. I hope i am doing it right so i don't have to redo this in a few years. here's what 5 hours got me that an expert prob woud've taken 1 hour... lol PS don't mind the sloppy job, i am putting stone ledger board pieces on top of the brick...

If I may make a suggestion. If you haven't proceeded further than the pic I would suggest a little trick I developed during my career in the fireplace biz.
The steel lintel/angle iron you use to cross over the opening. Obviously it's steel which expands with heat more than masonry. The greatest expansion being in its length.
Whilst I never had a problem in any of the fireplaces I built cracking the brick face I have seen others that did.
This prompted me to come up with the idea of creating tin sleeves the iron can expand into without cracking any masonry.
I simply used what I call sub flashing. I used the store bought 5" x7" pieces of sub flashing tin and wrapped the ends of the iron with it forming it by hand to fit onto the steel. Then slide the formed tin about 3/4" past the end of the iron.
This creates a small pocket at the end of the iron where mortar from the next course of brick cannot touch the end of the steel allowing the steel to slide into the pocket as it expands.

Seeing as you have a minimal face and will be wrapping it with stone this is a good place to utilize that little trick.


I would be remiss if not mentioning that old fireplace is a touch out of code keep that in mind when you get the idea of seeing how much heat you can make it throw.

I hope you're slushing behind each course with mud fully. Beyond that good job. Masonry is where most do it yourselfers fail and your getting it done. Bravo.

 

[Grisu]

PS don't mind the sloppy job, i am putting stone ledger board pieces on top of the brick...

If that's a sloppy job I don't want to see your projects when you put actual effort in. I am surely will be green with envy.

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I hope you are not planning to use this just like a regular fireplace?! This one is begging to have a stove installed in it.

 

[vig1116]

I would be remiss if not mentioning that old fireplace is a touch out of code keep that in mind when you get the idea of seeing how much heat you can make it throw.

I will definitely take a shot at that trick if i can do it, but can you explain whats out of code so i can try to fix it if possible? this was already in the house when i bought it, i just took the brick wall facade down. Thanks!!

 

[vig1116]

I hope you are not planning to use this just like a regular fireplace?! This one is begging to have a stove installed in it.

I am so new at all this and thought an old fashioned fireplace was better than the new stuff!! (thats how outdated i am with fireplaces lol)
What are the benefits of stove over this? Thanks for any info!!

 

[bholler]

but can you explain whats out of code so i can try to fix it if possible?

It does not look like you have the requred 12" of masonry between the inside of the firebox and the framing. He may have seen something else but that is what i saw at first glance

 

[bholler]

What are the benefits of stove over this? Thanks for any info!!

A stove will actually contribute usable heat to your house most fireplaces contribute little to no heat to the house. And use allot more wood to get that heat than a stove

 

[Grisu]

You get actual heat instead of sending a lot of warm, conditioned air up the chimney. Hence, fireplaces are mostly for ambiance. With a height of 38" you can easily fit a top-vented stove in there.

 

[vig1116]

It does not look like you have the requred 12" of masonry between the inside of the firebox and the framing.

I think its actually exactly 12". I will take a pic with a tape measure in a minute. (unless I'm measuring wrong) and thank you for mentioning it in case it is not right!!

Unless you mean the top portion? I was under the impression that if i close the box off with the bricks i can go 12" from the new bricks?? I'll explain better with pics in a minute.

 

[vig1116]

You get actual heat instead of sending a lot of warm, conditioned air up the chimney. Hence, fireplaces are mostly for ambiance. With a height of 38" you can easily fit a top-vented stove in there.

ugh now you're going to make me want to spend more money! STOP IT lol

 

[Grisu]

ugh now you're going to make me want to spend more money! STOP IT lol

Depending on your current heat source and your willingness to process your own wood you may actually save money in the long run with a stove. Just saying...

 

[vig1116]

ok, here's pics. You were right, the left side is one inch short. I was including the 2x4 stud in measuring. Is that a major problem? And the steel beam is going to be where the level is so i'm going to have about 13-14" from there, is that ok? Can't thank you enough guys

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[vig1116]

A stove will actually contribute usable heat to your house most fireplaces contribute little to no heat to the house. And use allot more wood to get that heat than a stove

sorry, i didn't see this earlier. I'm looking into this at the moment. at this point i think i'm going to leave this as is because it's on the lower level of a split level house and will not be used that much, BUT, you guys have given me another project for my upstairs living room after this renovation

 

[Jo191145]

I think its actually exactly 12". I will take a pic with a tape measure in a minute. (unless I'm measuring wrong) and thank you for mentioning it in case it is not right!!

Unless you mean the top portion? I was under the impression that if i close the box off with the bricks i can go 12" from the new bricks?? I'll explain better with pics in a minute.

I was referring to the studs being closer than normal to the masonry. Two inches clearence is code. Happens quite often though.
you seem to be at correct height to crossover with the iron now, correct?
Eight inches of brick below the damper, twelve inches of brick above the damper for a total of twenty inches over your angle iron. That's proper code. It can be a pain with some designs that people want I know but that's what your supposed to do. If you just go 12 inches up from the iron you'll only have one course sealing in the heat and fire from the firebox. Not good at all.
Quite often the design demands that the bricks be set further back after a certain height so a wrap around mantle can be installed showing less height above the iron but the masonry needs to be there.

Last time I read the code your still allowed to bring a wood mantle within twelve inches of the face opening height. Eight inches on the side. I don't agree personally with going that low but that specific code was NOT changed when they changed the code to demand eight inches of brick below the damper. The old code was 5-7"

I realize some of this may not be relevant to you. You have a stone face to apply later. How high is your top stone and what did you plan on finishing the top off with?


I'm gonna throw this out there. That face is not just a face. It is an integral part of a fireplace and safety. It needs to be fully mortared against the existing fireplace behind the brick face. That includes the top.
Not sure if you are or are not doing so but you need to.


Oh yeah, as a guy who made a living building fireplaces. If you want to heat your home with wood you need a woodstove

 

[vig1116]

I'm very glad i joined this site to ask. I didn't know any of this and i looked for a long time before venturing into this. I did NOT fully mortar behind the brick, i thought it was supposed to be away from the existing block. I will mix a wetter s mortar tomorrow and make sure it goes all the way down there then leave it for a longer time to fully harden before proceeding. I also didn't know about the 20". I thought 12" from the steel level was code... Right now i am 8-9" below the damper, so i need to go more than i originally thought. My plan was to go 14" above my steel then a 4" think wood mantel that comes about 8" out. I guess I'm going to have to raise that now to 20", then 4" for the mantel (or can it be 20" total including the mantel?) I'm still trying to get this right, sorry. I'm just so shocked when i went to my township, they said i don't need a permit, and no inspections are needed. Then why have codes?? lol

Oh, and above the mantel is drywall. I was going to go up to the ceiling with the stone but i'm going to put a tv above and figured half a wall was good enough.