I was told by a retail outlet that they just install the insert into a masonry chimney, with chimney dampner open, and that's all that is needed as far as venting. The catalayst supposedly gets hot enough to burn everything off. Open the insert dampner when opening the door and close the insert dampner when door is closed.Are there any inserts out there actually like this? Thanks.
Fireplace Insert Installation
- Thread starter Fishin
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Install it without any pipe at all? When you say "retail outlet" Do you mean a brick and mortar hearth retailer? Save me Oprah
Take a minute to read up on masonry chimneys and the connection options. Some places won't allow anything other than a fully lined installation to pass code/inspection. Also, when you clean the liner, you won't have to pull the insert.
http://www.woodstove.com/pages/masonry.html
http://www.woodstove.com/pages/masonry.html
Fishin said:
It will be utterly shocking if this verbatum is what the stove shop said they do. Maybe its a start saying they are a retail outlet that doesnt actually do the install so they dont know how they actually go in. I would think its more of a misunderstanding that they dont need a UL listed Class A triple wall stove pipe that cost about $200 per 4 ft section. But there does need to be some type air tight connection into the existing chimney flue. What they could have been talking about is a "direct connection" which is a piece of flue pipe that connects to a plate that creating a direct connection inside the flue. 2nd method is a full flue liner. Without an air tight connection to get the flue gasses up the chinmey, you have a horrible scenario for carbon monoxide to flood your house.
The website in post above should better explain what is required for proper insert installation.
Thats called a Slammer, and you will have to pull the whole unit out each time you want to clean the chimney.
You also have to make sure the size of the existing flue is not too large or you will get no draft.
I would throw that shops number away and forget about them. They are looking to make a quick easy buck, as fast and easy as possible.
You also have to make sure the size of the existing flue is not too large or you will get no draft.
I would throw that shops number away and forget about them. They are looking to make a quick easy buck, as fast and easy as possible.
Fishin said:
If they are a reputable place I am assuming there was a misunderstanding on how they were explaining that direct connection. There has to be some seal that connects the stove pipe to the chimney or a full liner. I know you arent in Canada, but building code there requires a full liner regardless of stove or flue condition.
Thanks. I thought, from reading this forum it was BS. This was a from a very popular store in the eastern part of Va. That said, what do you think about the Osburn 1800 woodburning fireplace insert? After searching the web, I'm teetering toward this one for the best value for my money. Again, Thanks.
The following is from page 8 of the owners manual for our newly manufactured (11/09), newly purchased (11/09) and newly installed (11/09) Buck Model 80. It can be installed as an insert or a freestanding stove. Hard to understand why mfgs are still saying this is a viable installation. I did not follow this method:
"INSTALLATION PREPARATION
Fireplace
1. Locate furniture and other materials away from the front of the fireplace to allow free access to the fireplace.
2. Cover the hearth and adjacent floor areas with the drop cloths to protect from soiling or scarring the surface.
3. Remove the existing fireplace damper plate.
4. Thoroughly clean the fireplace of ashes and soot.
5. Check the chimney and smoke chamber for excessive buildup of creosote or soot. Also, check for
obstructions, such as birds’ nest. If the chimney is excessively dirty, clean it, or have someone clean it
professionally BEFORE installing the room heater.
6. If the fireplace has an ash dump or outside air provision, these must be sealed off with metal or tightly packed
non-combustible insulation to prevent cold air from entering the fireplace chamber.
Heater Preparation
1. Inspect the unit for any obvious physical damage.
2. Check the primary air draft controls to ensure that they slide freely.
3. Check the operation of the damper control to ensure that it will open and close properly.
It is not necessary to direct connect this unit unless installed in an improper drawing fireplace or oversized flue."
"INSTALLATION PREPARATION
Fireplace
1. Locate furniture and other materials away from the front of the fireplace to allow free access to the fireplace.
2. Cover the hearth and adjacent floor areas with the drop cloths to protect from soiling or scarring the surface.
3. Remove the existing fireplace damper plate.
4. Thoroughly clean the fireplace of ashes and soot.
5. Check the chimney and smoke chamber for excessive buildup of creosote or soot. Also, check for
obstructions, such as birds’ nest. If the chimney is excessively dirty, clean it, or have someone clean it
professionally BEFORE installing the room heater.
6. If the fireplace has an ash dump or outside air provision, these must be sealed off with metal or tightly packed
non-combustible insulation to prevent cold air from entering the fireplace chamber.
Heater Preparation
1. Inspect the unit for any obvious physical damage.
2. Check the primary air draft controls to ensure that they slide freely.
3. Check the operation of the damper control to ensure that it will open and close properly.
It is not necessary to direct connect this unit unless installed in an improper drawing fireplace or oversized flue."
my stove's original manual had such an installation listed int it....but my stove was made in '89. That is how I put it in our chimney when I first put it in...burned it for a couple years like that. I had a poor draft and some glazing and I'm lucky I didn't burn down the house. When I finally installed a stainless steel liner the most notable difference was the draft. It draws nicely even wen external temps are above 50 degrees. The colder it gets, the better it seems to perform. And cleanup is much easier also. But the biggest benefit is knowing that I have a safe installation and am not gonna burn the joint down.
I've seen the osborn but not sen it in use. It looked good to me.
I've seen the osborn but not sen it in use. It looked good to me.
While checking into inserts take a look at Kozy Heat. I have the Z42. I too was thinking of putting in an insert but found that the fireboxes were so small. I looked at the one you mentioned and it too looks kind of small. If you want to do some serious heating or simply want some longer burn times I would look for a larger firebox. Mine will take up to 22" long logs. That's nice to know when your gathering firewood and especially when stacking it. The Z42 is not an insert but a zero clearance fireplace. At first I wasn't sure it would work but I was able to tear out the old firebox and the old chimney came down too, right inside of the chase. It was a lot easier than I would have ever thought. If you have a masonry fireplace all you have to check is to see if it would fit. As far as using the existing chimney by hooking up to it - I wouldn't. When you would have to clean the chimney all that crap would come down on the insert. There's no way you could just leave it there. You'd have to somehow then clean the top of the insert. You could put in a block-off plate. What I like about the zero clearance is it's all self contained. The triple wall chimney will connect directly to the top of the unit, it's a 6" chimney so it's cheaper and it burns very clean. The zero clearance will use all outside air to burn so it won't pull any air out of your house. And, these things are built like a tank. Mine weighs something like just over 500lbs. The reason I mention the zero clearance is because after reading all these posts on here for the last couple of years I don't hear many people that have a zero clearance. I've had mine for several years now and I burn 24/7 using 5-6 cords a year. I couldn't be happier with my decision to get one unless I was redesigning my house at that beging when I built it - I would have designed it for a stove install. When it comes to heating I think a stove wins hands down. Good luck with your choice.
If one would fit into the hole I don't see why not. You'd just have to figure out how to put a trim around it. Can you tear out what you have and then rebuild it the way you want? That's what I ended up doing. I was going to try to save the brick work but once I saw how it was built I just tore the whole thing out, installed the zero clearance and found a guy who was a mason and hired him on the side to rebuild the brickwork around the fireplace and also built a new raised hearth. He made it to fit my old Mantle I had paid a $1000 for just a couple of years earlier. The brick cost me under a $100 and the mason charged me $300 for labor and he supplied the morter and I supplied the extra muscle. Good luck, I'm not sure what kind of fireplace your dealing with.
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