Has anyone had one of these? We were building a new home and was thinking of installing the 36 Elite wood burner. I thought I could save money not building a masonry fireplace and putting an insert in. Do the Xtrordinair fireplace put out alot of heat and what about the up keep. Anyone have any trouble's with these units? Catalytic combustor or the baffle plates and the blower. At least it has a 7 year warranty. Thanks
Fireplace Xtrordinair????
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I have the 44 Elite (same unit just a little bigger). Installed a year ago. My avatar is a picture of my install. I think they look great and it certainly pumps out a significant amount of heat. Thus far I have not had any troubles. One comment though is I do use ALOT of firewood (3 cords thus far this heating season) it seems to be a hungry machine. Some have mentioned issues with pulling in the outside air in cold climates but I have not experienced any problems. The POS system does work - I have less than ideal windows that are very drafty - when the 44 is running with the fan blowing (pressurizing the house) it stops the drafts. It does a nice job of circulating the heat through our house. My furnance rarely kicks on to produce heat and thermostats are set around 58.
All in all, I am very happy with it.
You mentioned upkeep - I dont have experience with any other wood burning units but I dont find the upkeep to be all that much:
* maybe about 1x/week I clean the windows - more or less depending on the quality of wood I burn
* ash clean out - any unit would have this
* vaccum cat about 1/month - just did it yesterday and took all of 2 min
* chimmney cleaning - any unit would require this. Again a pretty simple process
* eventually the Cat will need to be replaced which is a matter of purchasing it (not sure of market cost) - putting a replacment in is simple
Wood burning itself requires work and can be messy.
If you like the look of a fireplace, this is a solid choice.
All in all, I am very happy with it.
You mentioned upkeep - I dont have experience with any other wood burning units but I dont find the upkeep to be all that much:
* maybe about 1x/week I clean the windows - more or less depending on the quality of wood I burn
* ash clean out - any unit would have this
* vaccum cat about 1/month - just did it yesterday and took all of 2 min
* chimmney cleaning - any unit would require this. Again a pretty simple process
* eventually the Cat will need to be replaced which is a matter of purchasing it (not sure of market cost) - putting a replacment in is simple
Wood burning itself requires work and can be messy.
If you like the look of a fireplace, this is a solid choice.
I chose the FPX 36 elite for my home.
In answer to your questions:
==> It puts out a ton of heat. I've been heating my whole home (about 2000 square feet) with it since Dec. 1. I have a highly efficient natural gas furnace that I use some of the time for various reasons. But my gas bill for Nov. 20 to Dec. 20 (three weeks of which I was using the FPX) was half of what it has been for previous years for the same time period.
==> I've had no trouble with it, but it's only been in service since Dec. 1.
Some additional thoughts:
I'm sure you're right about saving money over building a masonry fireplace, but these things are not cheap! I did the entire installation myself, so I saved money on that. But it is a very complicated installation, and if you're having it professionally installed it will probably be a significant expense.
One of the main reasons I chose this model is that I'm impressed with the manufacturer. I had previously had one of their gas fireplaces and was very impressed with it. The design and the quality control seem to me to be "the best."
When you compare this unit to other, comparable units, look at the weight. This unit weighs 600 lbs. Most of that 600 lbs is, no doubt, the steel box. When that steel heats up it really holds the heat. One of the units I was comparing was only 350 lbs. That's an important difference.
I've noticed, and I've read the experience of others who have noted, that it seems to burn a lot of wood. I think maybe that's part of the trade-off you get when you choose a fireplace rather than a woodstove. I may be wrong about that, but that's what makes sense to me.
You'll have a number of decisions to make when you work through the installation. The location of the blower, which supplies the unit with combustion air and air to heat and circulate to the house, is important, and there are options. The locations of the cool air ducts that supply air to cool the chimney are important, and there are options. Don't make those decisions without a lot of care and consideration. Most of what you need to know is in the installation manual, but there is also information from people who have these units that may be helpful. You can find that information here on hearth.com by looking in reviews and searching for people who have these units.
Finally, be careful to consider what the manual says about the location a mantel, if you intend to use a combustible mantel. The manual calls for you to put a combustible mantel no closer than 23" above the top of the unit. In our house that produced a look that was badly proportioned to our room. It was too high; too close to the ceiling for our taste. We had to decide to use a non-combustible mantel in order to have it be low enough to look right to us.
Hope these thoughts help.
-Speak
In answer to your questions:
==> It puts out a ton of heat. I've been heating my whole home (about 2000 square feet) with it since Dec. 1. I have a highly efficient natural gas furnace that I use some of the time for various reasons. But my gas bill for Nov. 20 to Dec. 20 (three weeks of which I was using the FPX) was half of what it has been for previous years for the same time period.
==> I've had no trouble with it, but it's only been in service since Dec. 1.
Some additional thoughts:
I'm sure you're right about saving money over building a masonry fireplace, but these things are not cheap! I did the entire installation myself, so I saved money on that. But it is a very complicated installation, and if you're having it professionally installed it will probably be a significant expense.
One of the main reasons I chose this model is that I'm impressed with the manufacturer. I had previously had one of their gas fireplaces and was very impressed with it. The design and the quality control seem to me to be "the best."
When you compare this unit to other, comparable units, look at the weight. This unit weighs 600 lbs. Most of that 600 lbs is, no doubt, the steel box. When that steel heats up it really holds the heat. One of the units I was comparing was only 350 lbs. That's an important difference.
I've noticed, and I've read the experience of others who have noted, that it seems to burn a lot of wood. I think maybe that's part of the trade-off you get when you choose a fireplace rather than a woodstove. I may be wrong about that, but that's what makes sense to me.
You'll have a number of decisions to make when you work through the installation. The location of the blower, which supplies the unit with combustion air and air to heat and circulate to the house, is important, and there are options. The locations of the cool air ducts that supply air to cool the chimney are important, and there are options. Don't make those decisions without a lot of care and consideration. Most of what you need to know is in the installation manual, but there is also information from people who have these units that may be helpful. You can find that information here on hearth.com by looking in reviews and searching for people who have these units.
Finally, be careful to consider what the manual says about the location a mantel, if you intend to use a combustible mantel. The manual calls for you to put a combustible mantel no closer than 23" above the top of the unit. In our house that produced a look that was badly proportioned to our room. It was too high; too close to the ceiling for our taste. We had to decide to use a non-combustible mantel in order to have it be low enough to look right to us.
Hope these thoughts help.
-Speak
I am new to this forum, however I have found alot of very helpful info. I have just ordered a 44 elite from my local dealer and will be framing out the wall for the fireplace this weekend, hopefully having the dealer soon after that do the install! One of the things that concerned me and it was mentioned in an earlier post was the clearance requirements for a combustable manel. Is the 23" that they recommend just the company being extremely cautious, do you think you could do any lower and still be safe? I've gotta make a decision before my stone mason shows up to complete the face. 23" seems awfully high and with us having 8' ceilings is will force us to have a shorter that desired hearth or have a mantel that is mounted way too high. Any other information that could be passed on would be greatly appreciated, any of ya'll do the framing for the unit yourself? Thanks and God bless! Brian
In my case, my code enforcement officer told me that whatever the installation manual stated is what he would hold me to in terms of code. Since the manual stated 23", for me that meant that "code" required 23". I suspect that the manufacturers write the instruction manual with national building code standards in mind, but I may be wrong about that.
Having said that, the space 12" to 23" above my fireplace does not get really hot. It does seem to me that a combustible mantel would be safe, but what do I know?
-Speak
Having said that, the space 12" to 23" above my fireplace does not get really hot. It does seem to me that a combustible mantel would be safe, but what do I know?
-Speak
I have the FPX36.
Been very happy with the unit. Live in the Hudson Valley of New York State. It has been a cold winter and the unit has had no problem keeping up.
Last night was about 10F and hot air blew from the unit all night. Of course buy morning it was cooled off and oil turned on.
Heats about 2500 Sq Feet. Only room in my house that is cold is the one above my garage. That is more a function of design (non-heated floor, no attic above, and basically five sides exposed to the elements.
Would recommend the unit.
Agreed it likes wood. However, if you dampen it down you will dramatically cut down on the amount of wood you use. THe drawback...dirtier glass.
good luck!
Been very happy with the unit. Live in the Hudson Valley of New York State. It has been a cold winter and the unit has had no problem keeping up.
Last night was about 10F and hot air blew from the unit all night. Of course buy morning it was cooled off and oil turned on.
Heats about 2500 Sq Feet. Only room in my house that is cold is the one above my garage. That is more a function of design (non-heated floor, no attic above, and basically five sides exposed to the elements.
Would recommend the unit.
Agreed it likes wood. However, if you dampen it down you will dramatically cut down on the amount of wood you use. THe drawback...dirtier glass.
good luck!
Not trying to sound ignorant but as far as code enforcement goes does that just apply to those living within the city limits of a town or to everybody? We are on a farm 10 miles from the city limits and I don't think we are under the same "codes" or requirements as those in town?!
Hello, my celing a little higher, but nonetheless no problems with my mantle. Normal room temp underneath cause the blower is forcing air out into the room and not up. I think I actually have ~ 13" clearance, I thought I'd run it that way and then if I noticed any temp issues or concerns I'd go non-combutable mantle but it's fine. Just wondering about my insurance coverage since I'm inside the clearance range, but again no temp problems at all.
Just checked my clearances.... 8' ceilings, clearance from top of face plate to bottom of mantel is 23", hearth hieght is 18" from the floor and is level to the bottom of fireplace with a 19.5" depth. My stone work goes up to the ceiling. 17" clearance on the sides. The 23" to the mantel is alot and certainly an extremely safe clearance - it looks good on my install probably because the stone work goes all the way up to the ceiling. Mantel is Walnut about 4" thick.
Thanks "Got Wood", that is exactly the dimensions we are looking at doing, an 18" hearth and 8 foot ceilings. Guess it is hard to tell what it is going to look like without any of it being completed, it seemed like with those dimensions that it was going to make to matel look way too high. However I really like the look of your set up. I am going to build a mesquite mantel probably in the range of 4" like your walnut mantel. Thanks and God bless ya. Brian
Just another datapoint for you to consider.....
It's been my experience that the Xtrordinair is hit or miss, and if it's a miss it's going to cost you thousands of dollars to replace.
I purchased a home a few years ago that had an Xtrodinair in the living room. Whenever I added more wood, it spilled smoke into the house. Also, when not in use it spilled cold air into the house. Every time we put wood in the fireplace we would need to open all the windows.
I spent a lot of time troubleshooting the problem, and never could resolve it. I reached the conclusion that it had to be replaced. I ended up turning the chase into an alcove, and installing a PE Alderlea free standing stove. I couldn't be happier with the change.
To replace the Xtrordinair you have to tear apart everything in front of it, all the rockwork, tilework, everything. Ran me about $10K.
On the other hand, one of my neighbors loves his Xtrordinair, never had a problem.
On the other other hand, one of the contractors who worked on my job had installed an Xtrordinair in his daughter's living room and had the exact same problems as I had.
The performance seems to be hit or miss.
(And by the way, the Xtrordinair WAS installed properly, I checked when we tore it out.)
The problem with the Xtrordinair (and any zero clearance), is that if you have any problems with the stove, it costs thousands of dollars in masonary, drywall, painting, flooring etc. to fix it. And of course, their warranty doesn't cover any of that. With a free standing stove, you disconnect it and have the stove dealer pick it up.
Here are a couple links to some threads where we tried to troubleshoot the problem. (My Login used to be rjustice4, but I lost my email address and forgot my password, so now I have a new login.)
Just thought I would share what I learned the hard way....
Bob
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/11446/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/8953/
It's been my experience that the Xtrordinair is hit or miss, and if it's a miss it's going to cost you thousands of dollars to replace.
I purchased a home a few years ago that had an Xtrodinair in the living room. Whenever I added more wood, it spilled smoke into the house. Also, when not in use it spilled cold air into the house. Every time we put wood in the fireplace we would need to open all the windows.
I spent a lot of time troubleshooting the problem, and never could resolve it. I reached the conclusion that it had to be replaced. I ended up turning the chase into an alcove, and installing a PE Alderlea free standing stove. I couldn't be happier with the change.
To replace the Xtrordinair you have to tear apart everything in front of it, all the rockwork, tilework, everything. Ran me about $10K.
On the other hand, one of my neighbors loves his Xtrordinair, never had a problem.
On the other other hand, one of the contractors who worked on my job had installed an Xtrordinair in his daughter's living room and had the exact same problems as I had.
The performance seems to be hit or miss.
(And by the way, the Xtrordinair WAS installed properly, I checked when we tore it out.)
The problem with the Xtrordinair (and any zero clearance), is that if you have any problems with the stove, it costs thousands of dollars in masonary, drywall, painting, flooring etc. to fix it. And of course, their warranty doesn't cover any of that. With a free standing stove, you disconnect it and have the stove dealer pick it up.
Here are a couple links to some threads where we tried to troubleshoot the problem. (My Login used to be rjustice4, but I lost my email address and forgot my password, so now I have a new login.)
Just thought I would share what I learned the hard way....
Bob
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/11446/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/8953/
Man I hate to hear your horror story, I can only pray that my experience will not turn out the same. I have research the heck out of this unit, talked to alot of people/owners of this unit and have recieved extremely positive feedback. I'm not even gonna venture a guess as to why yours turned out the way it did, it sounds like you tried everything possible to get that thing working right, maybe you just got a lemon!! I feel pretty confindent going with this unit and hopefully i will be able to respond back with positive remarks after having used it for a while!! God bless. Brian
One thing you could do, Brian, is to do a thorough series of fires (for a couple weeks or so) before your mason finishes the job. And perhaps explain to your dealer that they will not receive final payment until the unit passes the tests (i.e. no smoke in the house). This is the approach I was going to use if I went with another zero clearance (such as the BIS units). Of course this won't help if problems emerge down the road, but it should catch problems that occur at install. My unit had problems from Day 1 (I was told that by the original owner and the original dealer), as did the unit that my contractor installed in his daughter's house. Once the unit is all rocked in there is virtually nothing you can do to fix problems....
Bob
Bob
You know, I actually thought about that...... running several fires through it before my mason did his work. Also since my unit is going to replace a large 8'X9' window unit in our living room that looks out on to the back porch, I though about just putting siding on the framed box that will be on our back porch instead of bricking it. Thought this might give me access to it from the back side if I did need to get to the unit or the chimney in the future for any reason. What do ya think??
Wow??? Before I pulled the plug on the FPX-36 three years ago, I was doing the research too and didn't see/hear anything like that? I will get smoke if I open the door to quickly, but I can do that on any stove or insert I've ever seen. Always, let it pressurize a little bit then watch it and finally open all the way...uh, and of course OPEN the bypass!
Brian, after seeing what we had to do to get the beast out (it weighs about 500 lbs), I wouldn't count on removing it from the back. Also, whatever you would replace it with would have to fit right into the existing rock work. I considered doing this, but am glad I didn't go that route. In the first of the two threads I posted, there is a photo of the initial install. You can see it's designed to go in from the front. However, if you just wanted to open things up and look around (if you had problems), it would be nice to have the ability to get in from the back. That's how my chase was built, as you can see in the pictures in the first thread.
FPX Dude, it sounds like you're one of the lucky ones. I tried everything (over a period of a couple years), and never could strike a balance that reduced smoke spillage. Some wondered if it had something to do with positive/negative pressures in the house, but I'm happy to say that the new stove has never spilled even a scent of smoke into the house....very happy about that.
FPX Dude, it sounds like you're one of the lucky ones. I tried everything (over a period of a couple years), and never could strike a balance that reduced smoke spillage. Some wondered if it had something to do with positive/negative pressures in the house, but I'm happy to say that the new stove has never spilled even a scent of smoke into the house....very happy about that.
Are there any other xtrordinair owners that also have experienced the problems of smoke spillage?
oh yea, my clearances... hearth is 12" high and extends 15", top clearance is 12" to bottom of mantle, side clearance is 8" (to a 2.5" extended column, I dunno how to describe this, but essentially the fpx is recessed 2.5", so there's that clearance on the sides???). My ceiling is 11' and room size is ~ 21' x 15' (big family room with ceiling fan always running on slow speed), and opens into kitchen of say same size, however the ceiling drops to 9' and then 8'.
On another note, my cold air return for my furnace is also in family room. Last week, when I climb on a ladder to replace it I really notice all the "warmer" air at about the 8'-11' level and I'm sure if you have only an 8' ceiling you'll get even more efficiency.
On another note, my cold air return for my furnace is also in family room. Last week, when I climb on a ladder to replace it I really notice all the "warmer" air at about the 8'-11' level and I'm sure if you have only an 8' ceiling you'll get even more efficiency.
FPX dude, do you have a pic of your set up. I like the idea of having the mantel so close to the fireplace just not sure about the heat on it. As far as smoke spillage I guess you just have to be careful when opening the unit, slow going and not all at once? Thanks and God bless. Brian
SierraBob, I don't think I was one of the lucky ones...unfortunately, it sounds like you were one of the unlucky ones. I read thru yer old posts and appeared that you had a much older stove, and pre Travis. All I've ever known the FPX to be is THE zc fireplace to get if you want the very best (no, I don't want to start a Ford vs. Chevy debate cause we all can justify why we love the ones we got). I actually consider it more of a stove than a fireplace, and have had this recommended to me by a friend who put one in, and I've recommended the same for others locally. Of all these ~ 5, noone has ever mentioned smoke spillage. My install was not perfect either and I've had to make adjustments to using it, such as opening the door probably slower than most, but once you figure that out then you'll remember. I'm a sponge/surfer to all the knowledge the experts have here and really enjoy learning from all the situations that they provide solutions for. Like to see a pic of your setup now!
wtx, oh yea, I've got my 52' LCD above mine now and will post those soon...in the meantime, go to the "fpx travis dirty glass" thread here https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/47441/ and see what it kinda looks like.
wtx, oh yea, I've got my 52' LCD above mine now and will post those soon...in the meantime, go to the "fpx travis dirty glass" thread here https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/47441/ and see what it kinda looks like.
FPX Dude, thanks for the input. I've also learned a lot from this forum, and the experiences of its members.
You're right, I had an early model. And was convinced that my unit was a rare "lemon" until about a month ago, when the mason that was giving me a quote for installing rock around the new stove said that he had talked his daughter into installing an FPX about two years ago, and that it was doing the exact same thing as mine. He was working with the local stove dealer to address the issue, but there wasn't much they could do. Once the unit is installed there isn't much you can do short of complete demolition. I suggested to him that he might want to consider installing chimney exhaust fan, although I'm not sure if you can use those on zero clearance units.
In replacing the stove, I decided against installing another zero clearance because there is nothing you can do if (for some reason) they don't work, or if they wear out down the road. With a free standing stove, you're never more than about $3K from a brand new stove...whereas with a zero clearance you're looking at more like $10K, once you add in masonry, drywall, flooring, the stove, and pipe....
I will post photos showing some of the demo, and of the new install....I've been meaning to do that for the past few weeks.
Bob
You're right, I had an early model. And was convinced that my unit was a rare "lemon" until about a month ago, when the mason that was giving me a quote for installing rock around the new stove said that he had talked his daughter into installing an FPX about two years ago, and that it was doing the exact same thing as mine. He was working with the local stove dealer to address the issue, but there wasn't much they could do. Once the unit is installed there isn't much you can do short of complete demolition. I suggested to him that he might want to consider installing chimney exhaust fan, although I'm not sure if you can use those on zero clearance units.
In replacing the stove, I decided against installing another zero clearance because there is nothing you can do if (for some reason) they don't work, or if they wear out down the road. With a free standing stove, you're never more than about $3K from a brand new stove...whereas with a zero clearance you're looking at more like $10K, once you add in masonry, drywall, flooring, the stove, and pipe....
I will post photos showing some of the demo, and of the new install....I've been meaning to do that for the past few weeks.
Bob
I'll throw a picup of mine in a bit.
As far as the smoke spillage and cold air infiltration goes-
1. If the chimney is cold there is also a pretty heavy reverse draft due to the fact that the blower duct is used for combustion air. If you are going to use this unit for the occasional fire then don't get it. When I do my first light off (door open) the cold air fom outside pours through the "jets" the line the top of the box. This cold air want to flow from outside to inside my house (neg pressure...so house has less pressure and air wants to seek equilibrium). One the small bits of wood start to light it smokes. THe air flow is still in to house at this point...voila- smoke in house. This can be avoided by preheating chimney (burn something that doesn;t smoke in firebox like a firestarter and heat unit first. Once smokin wood really gets going (about 1-2minutes) the draft reversing and the smoke is pull up the stack. Make sure furnace, bathroom vents etc are off.
2. As I mentioned earlier heat output is AWESOME.
3. It likes to eat wood so be reday to keep loading it.
4. My biggest complaint is the marketing BS about external combustion air. Without a DOUBT this unit pulls air fom inside the house. THe deal is, since the blower is running it is pushing air into the house which then is used for combustion. Held a candle in front of unit las night to test and poof...pull the flame right in. If someone can explain how this is not the case I would be elated and would love to be wrong.
5. Agreed that if you need a new stove or wnt to change it up it is a very big expense.
6. Ohyeah---if you burn overnight and box if warm to the touch you won;t have any smoke issues on relight.
As far as the smoke spillage and cold air infiltration goes-
1. If the chimney is cold there is also a pretty heavy reverse draft due to the fact that the blower duct is used for combustion air. If you are going to use this unit for the occasional fire then don't get it. When I do my first light off (door open) the cold air fom outside pours through the "jets" the line the top of the box. This cold air want to flow from outside to inside my house (neg pressure...so house has less pressure and air wants to seek equilibrium). One the small bits of wood start to light it smokes. THe air flow is still in to house at this point...voila- smoke in house. This can be avoided by preheating chimney (burn something that doesn;t smoke in firebox like a firestarter and heat unit first. Once smokin wood really gets going (about 1-2minutes) the draft reversing and the smoke is pull up the stack. Make sure furnace, bathroom vents etc are off.
2. As I mentioned earlier heat output is AWESOME.
3. It likes to eat wood so be reday to keep loading it.
4. My biggest complaint is the marketing BS about external combustion air. Without a DOUBT this unit pulls air fom inside the house. THe deal is, since the blower is running it is pushing air into the house which then is used for combustion. Held a candle in front of unit las night to test and poof...pull the flame right in. If someone can explain how this is not the case I would be elated and would love to be wrong.
5. Agreed that if you need a new stove or wnt to change it up it is a very big expense.
6. Ohyeah---if you burn overnight and box if warm to the touch you won;t have any smoke issues on relight.
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