First Burn in Vogelzang defender

[Chas0218]

So I bought a very lightly used stove in September of last year the original owner used it for 2 months for supplemental heat in his double wide while they waited to get enough money to replace their furnace. He doused it in wd40 to keep it from rusting. A little weird I know but I assembled the piping and burned a good fire in it to burn off the WD40 before installing it at the end of September. Unfortunately I wasn't able to fire the stove again after install until this weekend.

Now here is my concern. I know everything is installed correctly BUTTT I didn't get a chance to fire the stove in its new location. The outdoor temps are supposed to be around -1*F with 10-20 mph winds and am concerned with the stove heating the cottage. It is 960 sq. ft. and the stove is rated for 1200 sq. ft. and 68,000 BTU with hardwood. Do you think I will have a problem heating the space? The insulation is brand new in the walls R13 and in the R19 in the ceilings. Below is a layout of the cottage.

 

[kennyp2339]

The insulation seems a little on the lite side for the ceiling, typically in your climate area r30 is the number to shoot for, I take it that this is a weekend home? If it is, do you keep the heat on during the week? If not you may have a few uncomfortable hours getting the house up to temp with the stove, but once it hits temp you should have no problem maintaining it.
*remember while running this stove full throttle burns send more heat up the chimney, you may want to find that point on the stove were you have full secondary's going but not the air fully opened, good dry wood is a must, if you don't have dry enough wood I would pack long underwear and a good jacket for this weekend.

 

[Chas0218]

Yeah the insulation is light mostly because it was built in the 90s as a summer home. I don't have any supplem ental heat other than a couple electric heaters. I planned on stoking the fire in the middle of the night I am hoping to keep her stocked well throughout the night with the little electric heaters helping. My FIL said I should heat with only those little duraflame electric heaters but I highly doubt they will keep up compared to the wood stove. I have wood that is 20% or less moisture that I am planning on burning this weekend. I plan on using the little electric heaters in the bedrooms to help get everything warmed up. I do have 2 ceiling fans in the living room to help circulate the warm air down. I am hoping after a few hours it should be good for the weekend I don't mind tending the fire every 4 or 5 hours.

Once everything is up to temp furniture, appliances, ect do you think it will keep the house warm enough to be comfortable? I planned on the living room being about 80 with the rest of the cottage around 65.

 

[Chas0218]

Well I gave her a shot and it didn't work out very well. I had good draft, my magnetic thermometer was on the higher end of 500 degrees on the single wall black pipe and she seemed pretty warm. It does seem like most of the heat is going out the chimney than staying in the stove. It warmed up the cottage about 20 degrees (up to 33) in 2.5 hours.

I ran her for around 6 hours and brought the cottage from 13 degrees up to 44 she hovered around there until I finally gave up and headed to my buddy's house and stayed there. The outside temps were -24 without the wind. I think my place needs some waterproofing in order to get her to hold temp. maybe a little blown in insulation in the ceilings.

Any suggestions.? Do you think if it were around 30 or 40 degrees outside could it bring the cottage up to 65-70?

 

[begreen]

500F surface flue temp is too high. Did you turn down the air once the stove started burning well? That should reduce flue temp while increasing stove temp. That said, expecting any stove to bring up the interior 60+ degrees in a matter of hours is unrealistic. The air may start to warm but the entire mass of furniture, walls, counters, etc. are going to take longer.

 

[Chas0218]

Yeah got it down between 350 and 400. With the damper shut it kept rolling pretty good until I added some foil tape over half of the air tube holes top get the lazy secondary flames.

How long would you expect it to take? I was thinking 6 hours. You think it would be easier for the stove if the outdoor temps were in the 30 vs -24. I haven't ever fired a stove in those temps. As a kid we heated our house with a Vermont casting stove about the size of this defender. It definitely wasn't an epa stove and cranked the heat out.

 

[Jags]

You think it would be easier for the stove if the outdoor temps were in the 30 vs -24

Well...yes. You are starting with a temp differential of 54 degrees, so that is an advantage right out of the gate. What do you mean - tape over the air tube holes? If this is in reference to the burn tubes internal to the stove - don't do that. You are defeating the very tech that makes this stove work (well).

I agree with BG that you are expecting a temp rise that is probably unrealistic. That said, I also believe that you may be fighting a learning curve with this new stove. That stove sounds "right sized" to me, and should be a good little heater. You aren't gonna get massive burn times while pumping out peak heat, but I see no reason why it shouldn't get the job done if you can keep it fed. You need to keep working and learning that stove.

 

[kennyp2339]

Dam, That sounds horrible, -24 and that wind was whipping good

 

[begreen]

Yeah got it down between 350 and 400. With the damper shut it kept rolling pretty good until I added some foil tape over half of the air tube holes top get the lazy secondary flames.

How long would you expect it to take? I was thinking 6 hours. You think it would be easier for the stove if the outdoor temps were in the 30 vs -24. I haven't ever fired a stove in those temps. As a kid we heated our house with a Vermont casting stove about the size of this defender. It definitely wasn't an epa stove and cranked the heat out.

If you are trying to make heat don't cover the burn tube holes. That secondary combustion is where a lot of the heat comes from. Learn to use the stove as designed.

 

[Chas0218]

I taped over half of the air inlet only because the air inlet control (what I call the damper) wasn't allowing the secondary to do that slow lazy flame it looked like I had the door open still (see attached photo that is without the tape)

While the blower was running it was pushing a good amount of heated air into the room. The blower seemed top drop the flue operating temp by 100-150 degrees while it was running. I really think my place is too drafty and I need to seal everything up this summer.

 

[Jags]

A couple of things...yes, a blower will typically lower the stove top temps. Completely normal. Second - run the stove as designed until you know it inside and out. Cutting the primary air down is/was probably part of the reason for lesser heat from the stove. Don't think that the rolling river of secondary flame needs to happen from light off to coaling. Guessing - you rushed the stove into secondary flame without allowing it to work through the initial outgassing (which looks just like your pic).

 

[Chas0218]

A couple of things...yes, a blower will typically lower the stove top temps. Completely normal. Second - run the stove as designed until you know it inside and out. Cutting the primary air down is/was probably part of the reason for lesser heat from the stove. Don't think that the rolling river of secondary flame needs to happen from light off to coaling. Guessing - you rushed the stove into secondary flame without allowing it to work through the initial outgassing (which looks just like your pic).

So I'll open the hole back up and run it as designed.

Not really sure if it matters but those logs in the picture were on an inch of coals and was the 2nd load of wood.

I will say on the first load after startup the stove seemed to be really putting the heat out but 2nd load she seemed to struggle to get back up in temp. I followed directions supplied with the manual for reloading the stove but didn't seem to work very well. I didn't change my process for 3rd or 4th load trying to see if it was the wood or the method the manual described.

 

[Jags]

Pretty easy stuff, really. On reload simply open the primary air full open until you are starting to get close to operational temps on the stove top and then start to decrease the air in a couple of steps. First to 50%, then 25% then to the final stage to allow for a nice long cruise. Often times, this IS NOT FULL CLOSED. It would not be unusual if you needed the primary to remain 5-10% open, but this is where the learning curve comes in. Ya just gotta work with it until you understand how it is going to react. Leave the fan off till you get an established stove/fire/temp.

 

[tarzan]

You will get plenty of good advice here on how to run the stove and can master it in a short time but that will mean little if you don't work on sealing that place up if you expect to stay there in those temps. That's some brutal weather and even with good insulation you should plan on setting in front of the stove for several hours while the cottage comes up to a comfortable temperature.

Yes, it will be much quicker band easier when it's 30 outside but you should still plan to dress for 30 degrees for a while.

 

[KindredSpiritzz]

With the damper shut it kept rolling pretty good until I added some foil tape over half of the air tube holes top get the lazy secondary flames.

I do that with my Defender. I took that whole cover off where the damper lever is so i could put foil over the hole. Works good right before bed when the stoves going good and gives me a longer burn thru the night by almost 2 hours. You have plenty of air supply holes so covering up one doesnt hurt, but again thats when the stoves going into the over night burn and temps are already where i want them. I heat a mobile home trailer and its tough to keep it at a decent temp when its cold. Wish i would of bought a little bigger stove.

 

[Chas0218]

Pretty easy stuff, really. On reload simply open the primary air full open until you are starting to get close to operational temps on the stove top and then start to decrease the air in a couple of steps. First to 50%, then 25% then to the final stage to allow for a nice long cruise. Often times, this IS NOT FULL CLOSED. It would not be unusual if you needed the primary to remain 5-10% open, but this is where the learning curve comes in. Ya just gotta work with it until you understand how it is going to react. Leave the fan off till you get an established stove/fire/temp.

Yeah I was doing that but on fully closed that is what my photo shows as a slow burn. I always thought when you fully close the air off it should start to choke the fire out in the case of an overfire/chimney fire. I do remember on one of the fires I left the door open to ensure the wood had caught with a fresh load of wood. Next time I will try the way you descrtibed and see if that will make a difference.

 

[Chas0218]

I do that with my Defender. I took that whole cover off where the damper lever is so i could put foil over the hole. Works good right before bed when the stoves going good and gives me a longer burn thru the night by almost 2 hours. You have plenty of air supply holes so covering up one doesnt hurt, but again thats when the stoves going into the over night burn and temps are already where i want them. I heat a mobile home trailer and its tough to keep it at a decent temp when its cold. Wish i would of bought a little bigger stove.

I think I saw your post about it and covered it once I loaded the wood a couple times seeing those roaring flames. I also might have rushed the stove like mentioned above.

 

[Chas0218]

You will get plenty of good advice here on how to run the stove and can master it in a short time but that will mean little if you don't work on sealing that place up if you expect to stay there in those temps. That's some brutal weather and even with good insulation you should plan on setting in front of the stove for several hours while the cottage comes up to a comfortable temperature.

Yes, it will be much quicker band easier when it's 30 outside but you should still plan to dress for 30 degrees for a while.

This summer will entail lots of caulk and can of foam. Here is a couple photos of the cottage from the outside I believe the siding allows a lot of wind up underneath. In the future we will be replacing the siding with insulated vinyl. This spring we are putting a new roof on and I am comteplating using the foam insulation board under the steel roofing.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

For the way your using that stove you need a bigger one. Something between 2400 and 3000 SF to handle the initial warm up.

 

[KindredSpiritzz]

another thing to keep in mind is how often will you be in that cabin when its so bitter cold? In my trailer i use an electric heater to help the stove catch up on the few days a year its bitter cold when im there. Being its a cottage its probably worth fixing up and making more insulated and air tight. My trailer isnt worth the money or effort so i have to make do best way i can.

 

[Chas0218]

another thing to keep in mind is how often will you be in that cabin when its so bitter cold? In my trailer i use an electric heater to help the stove catch up on the few days a year its bitter cold when im there. Being its a cottage its probably worth fixing up and making more insulated and air tight. My trailer isnt worth the money or effort so i have to make do best way i can.

Honestly we picked the coldest weekend out of entire winter to visit the cottage. In reality we would be going up there 30-20 degree on a few occasions mostly when it is in the 40s. I have been researching a little about insulating the roof and walls a little better. I also have a framed in crawlspace with no insulation so I think I might have someone come and spray it with foam for me.

 

[begreen]

Sounds like the stove will work out fine for those conditions. Just allow enough time for all the mass of the cabin to warm up. An electric booster heater for the bedroom might also be a good idea.

 

[HisTreeNut]

Don't see any links or thumbnails for photos... Are they on your profile?

 

[Chas0218]

Don't see any links or thumbnails for photos... Are they on your profile?

First page had the one I'm referencing.

 

[HisTreeNut]

Ok, thanks...missed that somehow.