First season with new Pacific Energy Summit Insert - some questions

[atom631]

First, I want to thank everyone for the help. I had posted a few months ago regarding getting this insert and I bit the bullet around august. I started using it intermittently for the last few weeks and I am realizing there might be more to this than just throwing the wood on and walking away. To start, I am in the northeast. I have a 1600sq' ranch. The stove is in my great room, which is my kitchen, dining room and den. this room is all cathedral about 13-14' to the peak. If you look at my history, you will see pics of the room and a floor plan.

Ive read through a few posts and the pinned FAQ at the top..but nothing really relates to my issues exactly. The long of the short is this thing is blowing through fuel....fast. Here is my system on burning (and FYI - i dont have a moisture meter or stove top thermometer - please recommend one!)

I usually start with putting about 4 pieces of wood on. I currently have a bunch of duraflames left over from just my fire place. I chop off a piece of durflame and place it at the bottom. I stack the wood in a tick-tack-toe pattern making sure at least one piece of wood is over the chunk of duraflame. I have the damper all the way to start and the door shut. The wood gets blazing within 10 minutes. At about 15 minutes I try to turn the damper all the way down (right). If the fire looks like its going to go out, I open it to start again for 5 minutes. Usually by 20-25 minutes I can choke it all the way down.

This is where I think the problem is. When I choke it down, the flames are still blazing. They definietly go down, but its still blazing pretty good. Often within 2hrs, there is just coal left of 4 pieces of wood. So usually the first load is wasted on just getting the stove to temp. The second load of 4 pieces will last about the same amount....and i usually dont even have to kick the damper back to start. they will catch in about 5-10 minutes.

For overnights, ive put at most so far about 7 pieces in the stove (i think i could fit 10 easily) at around 11pm. I give it the 20-25 minutes to get good and burning then choke it down. by 3am its coal. at 6 there is still a hot coal bed and i can usually throw a pieces or two on with minimal effort to get it started again.

The stove is outputting a lot of heat.... it gets toasty in my house (it doesn't really reach the bedrooms on the other side, but i think that is more of an issue with it being shoulder season and only doing a smalls burns intermittently...but its just going through it so fast. The wood seems to be burning good, so i think its pretty dry. im wondering if my damper maybe isnt closing enough?

another issue is the glass is getting really dirty...like brown burn marks and some splash marks from popping wood. i thought that was a product of wet wood...but with the way my stove is burning my wood seems fine. is this related?

anyway - if you have read my wall of text, you deserve a beer. thanks for any help.

 

[begreen]

If the wood is dry the air can be closed off sooner. I had the air fully closed with a 4 large split, cold start fire in 15 minutes tonight.

The wood sounds suspect, but not terribly wet. Our glass stays clean. How thick are your splits? What species wood?

 

[atom631]

i would say the splits are any where from 10-14" long. about 6" thick. i do not know the species..its various types. i get it from a landscaper.

wouldnt wet wood make it burn longer, just not as hot?

 

[Dix]

I hate beer

You're not letting it get a good coal bed before adding more firewood and then shutting it down in increments.

Brown glass indicates a smoldering fire, usually due to wet firewood.

I use a Condor on the PE. Works for me. Insert temps on the thermometer are usually 150F - 200F degrees higher in the firebox than what you see. That's the way it goes with inserts.

How's your firewood supply? Seasoned or not?

 

[begreen]

I'm having a nice cab sav right now Dix.

Modern stoves want dry wood to perform at their optimum levels. Burning poorly seasoned wood is a challenge at best. Water doesn't burn well.

 

[Ashful]

Cross-stacking each row (you say tic-tac-toe fashion) is a sure way to blow thru some wood fast. Build small fire with kindling and chunks and burn it down inside an hour to get a good coal bed. Then load on the real wood, all the same direction, packing it tight. If your wood is dry, no problem, if it's not then throw something small and dry on the bottom (right on coals, before loading bigger splits). Tightly packed dry wood is the key to a slow controlled burn.

 

[Dix]

Sopping wet firewood is still gonna smolder, even with a kick start.

 

[Dix]

The key to this problem is "first year", here.

Hell, I clogged my chimney in 4 months my first year with the PE

 

[atom631]

im unsure of how seasoned the wood is. i got it mid summer so i am sure its not terribly seasoned.

so i guess i need a moisture meter to see if my wood is dry. can anyone recommend one that isnt going to break the bank? ...and a "condar" thermometer for the summit insert?

and yes... total noob....so have your fun mocking me! although you are freaking me out about clogging the chimney. ive had enough issues with this house in my first year here.. thats the last thing i need.

 

[Dix]

No mocking, just experienced observations.

How much firewood did you get from this ;landscaper??And is it all that you have?

 

[atom631]

i bought 5 cords. its all i have. my friend with a PE summit recommended him and uses him too. granted he bought his wood early spring, probably april.

 

[BrotherBart]

Moisture meters are available cheap off of Amazon or eBay. They are sufficient for testing firewood. We aren't talking cabinet making here.

 

[Dix]

5 cords is a nice score, even better if it's seasoned.

Do you have access to milled scraps, pallets, etc.

Envi bricks (Bio bricks) could turn into your best friend this season.

 

[atom631]

no access to scraps. he also sold them for only 150/cord. pretty good deal. had to take minimum of 5. the way i am going through it, i dont think its enough. how will the enviro bricks help? ill make sure i pick some up this week.

 

[Dix]

You can mix & match with the not so seasoned firewood.

You'll have to check your chimney for bulid up frequently.

Are these 4 x 4 x 8 cords, or face cords??

Where are you in the North East?

 

[atom631]

4x4x8. i am right down the block from you.... miller place. you actually recommended Brick Fix. Hes the guy who put it in for me.

 

[Dix]

I'm sending you a PM. I think I can save you, lol

 

[Hogwildz]

You need:
Check your cap & stack monthly the first year or two, adjust your wood & burning habits accordingly.

Dry wood, dry wood, dry wood. Depending on species, it needs 1 year to 3 years split and stacked and time to dry.

Get ahead with your wood, meaning figure 3 seasons worth of cordage ahead of when you need it. That way, when you burn the first load of actually dry wood, you have two more seasons dry and ready. Replace a seasons worth when burning a seasons worth, going on a 3 year rotation. That way you will always have dry wood, not needing to burn the most recently processed for 3 years, which will almost guarantee it will be dry and ready when the time comes. Most process more, at least 2 seasons worth ahead of the first 3 years worth. That way if you get a real cold winter that hangs on longer than usual, you have spare back up.

Resist the urge to load before it needs to be reloaded. Continually throwing splits in is a waste, and will fill the firebox full of coals, reducing your reload room.
As already mentioned, criss cross is good for start up from cold, but straight in (front to back)is the way this beast wants to be loaded, and is made to be loaded.
The first load will give some heat, but is kind of the sacrificial load, which gives you that nice bed of coals to reload on. After that, 15 minutes +/- wide at open, cut to half at about 300-350 degrees, then all the way down at 400+. It will handle itself after that, and you should get a good 12 hours before needing reload, accept on the most frigid of single digit and below, & frigid windy days. This is with good hard wood. But even with soft wood you should get 8hrs+ if you load it full & tight.

If you can fit 10 splits in there for overnight, your splits are too small.
I can fit about 7, maybe 8 tops with 3 or 4 being big splits on the bottom, and the top filled in with medium splits.
I have been experimenting with this for 8 seasons now. Don't go nuts with large.... meaning if you fill the box with 2 or 3 really large splits, it will may end up smoldering as you need some air space in there. And splits those large can take a lonnnggg time to dry.

This stove burns from the top down. Meaning after you get a good blaze going, and get the air set all the way low, or as low as what works for you, the baffle jets burn the wood from the top down. There will be some flames lower, but most of the burn goes from top down. Later in the burn it will just be a huge mass of glowing coals. As long as the temp is up where it should be, and your getting heat, your doing fine. If it keeps dropping low quickly, your wood is wet, and useless, and that is what will create creosote very quickly.

If your wood is dry, and you turn it down too late, then it will flame away and burn the load up pretty quickly.
20-25 minutes before chock down is way too long. Maybe from a cold start, but if on reload, too long.

Hazy white glass is from long splits being loaded in and too near the glass. This wont effect burn, just outgassing fogging up the glass. The brown stuff is a poor sign though.
The brown glass is wet wood.Also make sure to check the door seal. Look up the dollar bill test. The door is not adjusted at the factory, and may need adjustment.

Your in your first year, we all been there. Take this time to get to know the insert, and hone your burning habits.
There is no quick start chart that works for all set ups, just basics your getting here, and the rest is up to your experimentation to determine what works best for you.

 

[Ashful]

I have a stove much larger than that, and I usually only fit 5... maybe 6 splits in it, but I do split big (think two-handers).

Sopping wet firewood is still gonna smolder, even with a kick start.

Yep... as I said:

Tightly packed dry wood is the key to a slow controlled burn.

You can pick up the General brand moisture meter at Lowes for $30, which is one that many of us use. Do not bother testing an exposed face, you need to take a piece and re-split it, then test on the fresh (previously internal) face. Press the probes well into the wood to get an accurate reading. You can test with the probes oriented with the grain, or cross grain, just not in the end grain.

I've learned the thresholds for my stove, but yours being non-cat might be different:

20% = perfect
21 - 23% = not bad, you can use it
24 - 25% = it'll take a little long to bake out before engaging the cat, but it can be made to work with some pain
26% and up = just forget it, leave it for next year

You can burn wet wood, if you can get it to light. It's been done by many on this forum, but you should understand the consequences:

1. You will get a LOT less heat out of the wood. It takes a lot of those stored BTU's to boil off all that water.
2. You will be frustrated on every reload, getting it to go well enough so you can dial the stove down and walk away.
3. Your secondary combustion system (cat or non-cat) will not perform as designed, meaning even less of those BTU's not used for boiling water will make it into your room, and more un-burned compounds (eg. creosote) going up your chimney.
4. The creosote going up your chimney will condense more quickly and easily in the chimney, causing more rapid build-up. Plan on inspecting your chimney monthly, and probably sweeping it at least once per cord burned, if you're burning wood at or above 25% moisture content.

 

[atom631]

thank you everyone for the information. My first step is check my wood as it seems you all believe this to be my cause. I believe I ordered this moisture meter last night and hope to get it by thursday: http://www.amazon.com/General-Tools-Instruments-MMD4E-Moisture/dp/B00275F5O2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415716382&sr=8-1&keywords=moisture meter

Depending on what this tells me, I will be seeking seasoned wood to get me through this winter, which will leave me my 5 cords for next winter.

stay tuned....

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Have you checked your door gasket?

 

[atom631]

i will do that this evening. the "dollar bill" test?

 

[Ashful]

I prefer to use $100 bills. Same thickness, same test, just seems to carry more weight / validity.

 

[setitonfire]

2nd year wood burner and PE owner here. And I'll second the need to have truly dry wood. I had a tough time with the stove last year because I purchased some hardwood that was to wet. This year is a whole different story. I'm burning some silver maple that has been css since Nov of last year and some poplar since April. I start shutting my air down about 10 min after a reload and it's blazing. At that point I cut it down 25% every 7- 10 min until almost closed. Sounds like I'm waiting to long. Hogzwild, I'm going to try your method Friday night when it's supposed to go down to the 20s here. I thought I was getting decent burn times with my softwood but will try your method to see if I can stretch out the time between reloads.

 

[atom631]

so i got my moisture meter today. i grabbed about 6 pieces and split them. i got reading anywhere from 15% to 21.5%. I did have one piece that went to 25% and another that was 46%. the 46% was obvious, it had musrooms growing on it..but i thought i would check anyway.

i know this is a small sample size, tomorrow i plan to grab about 10-15 more pieces and split them to check.