First Time Insert Owner Question

[Marko1959]

I just purchased a Buck 85 insert for my masonry fireplace and also recently purchased a Ventinox direct connect kit on-line. My question is; the hole in the top of my insert is just that, a hole. The direct cinnect kit came with the round to ovalized flex pipe and what I call a connector. It's a 6" round piece of pipe with a clamp on one end for sealing it to the smole pipe and the other end is kinda corrugated and will sit directly inside the hole on the insert. Surely I'm missing an adapter to connect the insert? Or, does the connector pipe just sit in the hole? The installation instructions aren't very clear on this.

Also,
Buck Stoves instructions say I do not have to use a direct connect and I'm wondering what yall's opinion is on this. What are the advantges? and, or dis-advantages of direct connecting?

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[webbie]

The pipe probably just fits down into the opening - sometimes you can reach up from inside the insert and pull it down -Use furnace cement inside the insert hole before you pull the crimp down into it.

Yes, you need at minium a direct connect in order for the stove to function reasonably.

 

[elkimmeg]

I'm going to leave this one to others to explain. I think most regulars know where I stand with direct connections and flue cross sectionar areas code. Please walk the guy threw the process. I do not want to be the killjoy everytime

Welcome abord Hearth.com

 

[Marko1959]

Thank you for the welcome. This forum is a GREAT resource.

A killjoy? Uh-oh, have I got in over my head? Is there something I should know about direct connecting? Pros and cons?

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

well, if you wnat to search for it you will find more then you ever wanted to know. I think were all still scarred from the debates but here is the short
1) cross sectional code, the flue can not be three times the surface area of the appliance you hooking up. Check the are of the pipe on the stove (Area=3.141 x radius squared) and compare that to the chimmey your hooking up. Code is no more then three times, my experence shows that 2 times is about the max that works decently.
2) draft is poor is larger chimneys, the closer you can get you chimney to the size of the stove outlet the better.
3) cleaning is a nightmare, you have to pull the insert to clean the chimmeny.
4) you will create alot of creosote, raising the chances for a chimmey fire, this relates to the cleaning issue, people dont clean as much because its a pain to pull the insert. So you get a combo effect there.
5) the only pro of a directconnect is its cheap. if you have 8x8 clay flue tile then you will probably be fine. Anything larger you shoud return your kit while its new and by a liner.

 

[Marko1959]

Wow, thanks for the info, very informative.

If I do not use the direct connect, do I have to line the entire chimney? I believe mine is an 8" x 8" tile 11 years old.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

No normally a 8x8 is fine for a direct connect, except for cleaning of course. Only way to solve that is to line it all the way up. Does your manual state that its ok to direct connect to a 8x8 clay flue tile?

 

[Marko1959]

I'll look again after work today to see.

Actually, it states that a direct connect is not needed at all. The only reason I have purchased one is because the dealer recommended one.

 

[kd460]

Get a liner, if not now, then a little down the road, say in the spring when it's time to clean the chimney. They are not to tough at all to install if you do your homework here. The liners can be picked up at reasonable prices if you shop around. Peace of mind and easy cleaning rank high in my book. It will improve your draft as well, even if your draft seems fine. KD

 

[seaken]

It's a fair bet that your fireplace chimney was never intended to service a wood burning stove. While it may be true that 8 x 8 flue tiles are of adequate size, there is absolutely no way for us to tell from here whether your chimney was constructed to comply with applicable codes. And even if, by some miracle, it was constructed to the codes for masonry chimney it still wasn't made to handle a chimney fire that may be far more intense when a wood stove is being used as when an open fireplace is being used.

A direct connect raises your risk tremendously. Buck Stove does you no favors by suggesting that no liner is needed. It may be true, and they do not have control over what chimney system is used. But it is not responsible. Unless your chimney passes current codes for use with wood burning stoves, a direct connect is just a bad idea, and an install with NO liner pipe at all (not even a "direct connect" - aka "slammer") is even worse. Even if you were willing to install it correctly and keep the system brushed your risk of a damaging fire is still very high. A full liner will help lower that risk. An insulated full liner will lower it even more.

Sean

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

It's a fair bet that your fireplace chimney was never intended to service a wood burning stove. While it may be true that 8 x 8 flue tiles are of adequate size, there is absolutely no way for us to tell from here whether your chimney was constructed to comply with applicable codes. And even if, by some miracle, it was constructed to the codes for masonry chimney it still wasn't made to handle a chimney fire that may be far more intense when a wood stove is being used as when an open fireplace is being used.

A direct connect raises your risk tremendously. Buck Stove does you no favors by suggesting that no liner is needed. It may be true, and they do not have control over what chimney system is used. But it is not responsible. Unless your chimney passes current codes for use with wood burning stoves, a direct connect is just a bad idea, and an install with NO liner pipe at all (not even a "direct connect" - aka "slammer") is even worse. Even if you were willing to install it correctly and keep the system brushed your risk of a damaging fire is still very high. A full liner will help lower that risk. An insulated full liner will lower it even more.

Sean

For the record, im all for liners 100% of the time. Insualtion is what makes the liner safe, if you cant fit a 6 inch liner with 1/2" wrap, then you cant contain a chimmey fire. Your apliane WILL draft better on a 6 inch liner, it will be easy to clean, and it will cost you a little more money. We cant comment on the condition of your chimney, i was ofcouse assuming that you have a functional clay flue tile. In no way would i recommed a direct connect in anything less. The question was does he have to line. The answer is no, per the cross sectional requirements. The answer is yes for all the other reasons stated above.

 

[elkimmeg]

I doubt the you have an 8/8 fireplace flue. flue size is governed by the fireplace opening. 1/10 Meaning your fireplace opening could be no more than 24/24" for an 8/8 flue. The 8/8 flue cross-section area is 48".
MSg got part of the NFPA cross-sectional code 3x only applies to interion chimneys. Exterior any walls expposed to the outside is 2x the crossectional area or 56" I think 11 years old you have man 8/12 fireplace flue which has an interior cross=sectional area of 76" which allows a direct connect for interior chimneys but exterior exposed it does not.

Code aside response post have given valid reasons for a full UL approved liner. My question to you is whether you want your stove to function correctly or are you willing to compromise safety and effeciency for $$$. Most of the ownwrs manuals were witten at the start of the model manufacturing run All craim to be NDPA 211 compliant in 2003 the NFPA 211 changed the cross-sectional code to recomnise location. Too many direct connects were problematic and caused excessive cresote build up and chimney fires. The question you have to ask yourself and familly is, at what point do you want to put a $$$ sign on their safety?

Should you have an interior chimney th and 8/12 flue in good condition code allows a direct connect. In these situations I noter on the permit the stove passes inspection but I tell the owners they should pull the stove out every 60 days and clean the flue. or at least inspect what is going on in there

 

[Marko1959]

Now I AM confused. I thought getting an insert to combat the high cost of natural gas for my 2 furnaces this winter was gonna be easy. My heating bill was averaging around $400. a month during Dec, Jan. and Feb. last year. Had that fireplace cranked up but I swear it was sucking what warm air I had in the house out and into the atmosphere.

I am guessing on the 8x8 size sure enough. I haven't measured the clay tiles inside the chimney but I was there when it was built back in '95 and 8" sounded pretty good. My chimney is on an outside wall if this helps.

I am in Mississippi and we usually run heat about 4 or 5 mos. out of the year. I can see that most of ya'll (you guys) are in colder regions of the country and use heat extensively. Ya'll sure are a wealth of knowledge when it comes to this subject and I am greatfully appreciative for all the help.

 

[JAred]

A liner will run you 400-600 bucks sounds like you could pay for that in a matter of 2-3 months if you use the stove for half your heat.
also when you do go to move that insert realize how heavy it is and then maybe you won't want to remove it every time you clean your chimney!

 

[Roospike]

My heating bill was averaging around $400. a month during Dec, Jan. and Feb. last year.

I am in Mississippi and we usually run heat about 4 or 5 mos. out of the year. .

WOW heating bill is around $400. a month in Mississippi !?!?!?!? I just have to ask .............How big is your house???? :coolcheese:

 

[Marko1959]

My home is 2,950 sq. ft. with about 1700 downstairs. I run 2 natural gas furnaces, 2 gas water heaters and a cook-top and before last years gas increase, I was averaging around $200-$225 a month in the winter. Don't know about the rest of the country but last year the prices spiked big time. I understand they are gonna be lower this year. I hope so anyway.

 

[Marko1959]

also when you do go to move that insert realize how heavy it is and then maybe you won’t want to remove it every time you clean your chimney!

You ain't just whistlin' dixie!! Right now it's sitting outside my back door waiting on some "helping hands" and backs, and legs to get it inside. The dang thing weighs 571 lbs. and I can feel every one of em'.