first time installing. Have some questions?

[Archer39]

I will be installing an englander 30 in the next couple of weeks and have a few questions. Here is my plan for my for the hearth that requires a 1.5 r-rating. Beings that the room has hardwood floors i am going to cut plywood to the shape of the hearth and start from there. Then i was going to use cement blocks to create an airspace. the blocks that i was looking at would give a 2" air space which in its self should exceed my r-rating. then i was going to use thinset on top of the blocks to attach 2 layers of wonderboard for support. On top of the wonderboard i will be laying some ceramic tile.

If that all sounds ok how do i go about ventilating the air space?

here are my list of questions in regards to running the stove pipe. First off i should say the room in which it will be installed has stone non-combustible walls with exposed ceiling with 2x8 beams. My plan is to run the chimney straight up though the second floor and chase it in the spare bedroom.

1. Do i run single wall stove pipe up to the Firestop Radiation Shield that will go though the second story floor? Then after that point transition into class A pipe?
2. Do i need a ceiling support box when i use a firestop radiation shield?
3. I have a flat roof on my colonial style house so where the pipe will exit the roof can run the chase all the way up to the roof line and use a storm collar to transition from the inside to outside? And would a ceiling support be need when going though the roof.
4. with this type set up do i need to put a "T" in somewhere help with clean out?

below is a drawing using MS paint of that i am trying to explain. please tell me if i am am way off in my thinking. This is what i have gathered by reading here and other sites.

 

[dougand3]

Single wall (or double wall) stove pipe from stove to 1st ceiling penetration, then Class A chimney to rain cap. Ceiling support box is the transition from stove pipe to Class A. It has metal flaps that screw or nail into ceiling joists to support chimney. Is radiation shield = the sheet metal "bullet" that keeps attic insulation away from class A? The roof hole doesn't need another ceiling support box - just a 10-12" hole for a 6" chimney. Storm collar and RTV/silicone - but I dunno how on flat roof. Most use 600 deg F RTF when touching chimney. If chimney extends out more than 5 ft (double check this length) - use a roof brace kit to support.
I'm speaking of stove room-ceiling-attic-roof. Someone else will chime in on fire stop/radiation shield.
And check on how much weight ceiling support box holds. How long is chimney? Say you have 15 ft of chimney and ceiling box supports 12...hmmm, I dunno. It MAY be you add a cathedral ceiling bracket mount inside the chase somewhere. Someone who's done a 2 story install will chime in.
I don't see where need a T.....straight shot cleaning either from top-down or bottom-up.
A good reading source is:
(broken link removed to http://www.selkirkcorp.com/Flash-Installation-Guide/english/supervent/supervent.swf)

 

[SolarAndWood]

I had a miserable time keeping the chimney from leaking with my flat roof. This was almost entirely due to the freeze/thaw cycles and snow accumulation we have here. I assume this isn't an issue for you? If it is, I would consider building a box on your roof to put your flashing on top of.

 

[LLigetfa]

Don't add a Tee. Horizontal sections can collect creosote. A straight run lets the creosote fall back into the stove. If you use doublewall smoke pipe from the stove to the ceiling, it will retain its good looks and there is less need for radiation shielding at the ceiling.

Build up a curb on the roof to prevent leak issues.

 

[DAKSY]

You don't want to use a storm collar by itself.
Use a flat roof flashing - add lots of tar to seal the edges - with the storm collar on top of that.
Silicone the underside of the storm collar to the top of the flashing cone,
& silicone the top of the storm collar to the Class A.
If you question whether or not the ceiling support box will hold the weight of the Class A,
most companies offer a roof support that fits under the flashing to add additional support.

 

[Archer39]

I had a miserable time keeping the chimney from leaking with my flat roof. This was almost entirely due to the freeze/thaw cycles and snow accumulation we have here. I assume this isn't an issue for you? If it is, I would consider building a box on your roof to put your flashing on top of.

we don't get a lot of snow accumulation but we do get a long freeze/thaw cycle. My dad installs roofs for a living so he might have an idea on how to make it seal well.

 

[Archer39]

Single wall (or double wall) stove pipe from stove to 1st ceiling penetration, then Class A chimney to rain cap. Ceiling support box is the transition from stove pipe to Class A. It has metal flaps that screw or nail into ceiling joists to support chimney. Is radiation shield = the sheet metal "bullet" that keeps attic insulation away from class A? The roof hole doesn't need another ceiling support box - just a 10-12" hole for a 6" chimney. Storm collar and RTV/silicone - but I dunno how on flat roof. Most use 600 deg F RTF when touching chimney. If chimney extends out more than 5 ft (double check this length) - use a roof brace kit to support.
I'm speaking of stove room-ceiling-attic-roof. Someone else will chime in on fire stop/radiation shield.
And check on how much weight ceiling support box holds. How long is chimney? Say you have 15 ft of chimney and ceiling box supports 12...hmmm, I dunno. It MAY be you add a cathedral ceiling bracket mount inside the chase somewhere. Someone who's done a 2 story install will chime in.
I don't see where need a T.....straight shot cleaning either from top-down or bottom-up.
A good reading source is:
(broken link removed to http://www.selkirkcorp.com/Flash-Installation-Guide/english/supervent/supervent.swf)

i don't think they are the same. I was using this (broken link removed to http://www.duravent.com/docs/instruct/L150_Sept09.pdf) from Simpson install instructions as a guide. Page 8 shows a set up like i will be running. they show both a ceiling support and a fire stop radiation shield being used??


also i see that they sell class A pipe in both double wall and triple wall. Which one do i need when running though the chase to the roof.Also will i need any type of support bracket inside to chase to secure the pipe so it does not move within the chase?

 

[Hogwildz]

Single wall (or double wall) stove pipe from stove to 1st ceiling penetration, then Class A chimney to rain cap. Ceiling support box is the transition from stove pipe to Class A. It has metal flaps that screw or nail into ceiling joists to support chimney. Is radiation shield = the sheet metal "bullet" that keeps attic insulation away from class A? The roof hole doesn't need another ceiling support box - just a 10-12" hole for a 6" chimney. Storm collar and RTV/silicone - but I dunno how on flat roof. Most use 600 deg F RTF when touching chimney. If chimney extends out more than 5 ft (double check this length) - use a roof brace kit to support.
I'm speaking of stove room-ceiling-attic-roof. Someone else will chime in on fire stop/radiation shield.
And check on how much weight ceiling support box holds. How long is chimney? Say you have 15 ft of chimney and ceiling box supports 12...hmmm, I dunno. It MAY be you add a cathedral ceiling bracket mount inside the chase somewhere. Someone who's done a 2 story install will chime in.
I don't see where need a T.....straight shot cleaning either from top-down or bottom-up.
A good reading source is:
(broken link removed to http://www.selkirkcorp.com/Flash-Installation-Guide/english/supervent/supervent.swf)

i don't think they are the same. I was using this (broken link removed to http://www.duravent.com/docs/instruct/L150_Sept09.pdf) from Simpson install instructions as a guide. Page 8 shows a set up like i will be running. they show both a ceiling support and a fire stop radiation shield being used??


also i see that they sell class A pipe in both double wall and triple wall. Which one do i need when running though the chase to the roof?

I believe you can use either or. They are both 2100 rated. You will however, need to make sure you have/use the installation kit(flashing, ceiling support, etc) made for that system. The DuraTech is a double wall with its own accessories, and the Dura Plus is a triple wall with its own accessories. I got the DuraPlus kit 50% off at Home Depot a couple years ago, and am kinda eying up the DuraTech double wall now. Might be selling the DuraPlus install kit.
Here are a couple interactive guides from their website:
http://www.duravent.com/?page=1a1.php

http://www.duravent.com/?page=1b1.php

I think you only need the fire stop radiation shield when going through a second story ceiling into the attic. From first story to second , the support box will do this as it extends through the floor into the chase in the second story room.
Through the first story ceiling into an attic, the support box & attic insulation shield does this job.
In my case, the support box is tall enough to go from ceiling to the underside off the roof so I don't think I will need the attic insulation shield, as the support box will act as one.

 

[Archer39]

Single wall (or double wall) stove pipe from stove to 1st ceiling penetration, then Class A chimney to rain cap. Ceiling support box is the transition from stove pipe to Class A. It has metal flaps that screw or nail into ceiling joists to support chimney. Is radiation shield = the sheet metal "bullet" that keeps attic insulation away from class A? The roof hole doesn't need another ceiling support box - just a 10-12" hole for a 6" chimney. Storm collar and RTV/silicone - but I dunno how on flat roof. Most use 600 deg F RTF when touching chimney. If chimney extends out more than 5 ft (double check this length) - use a roof brace kit to support.
I'm speaking of stove room-ceiling-attic-roof. Someone else will chime in on fire stop/radiation shield.
And check on how much weight ceiling support box holds. How long is chimney? Say you have 15 ft of chimney and ceiling box supports 12...hmmm, I dunno. It MAY be you add a cathedral ceiling bracket mount inside the chase somewhere. Someone who's done a 2 story install will chime in.
I don't see where need a T.....straight shot cleaning either from top-down or bottom-up.
A good reading source is:
(broken link removed to http://www.selkirkcorp.com/Flash-Installation-Guide/english/supervent/supervent.swf)

i don't think they are the same. I was using this (broken link removed to http://www.duravent.com/docs/instruct/L150_Sept09.pdf) from Simpson install instructions as a guide. Page 8 shows a set up like i will be running. they show both a ceiling support and a fire stop radiation shield being used??


also i see that they sell class A pipe in both double wall and triple wall. Which one do i need when running though the chase to the roof?

I believe you can use either or. They are both 2100 rated. You will however, need to make sure you have/use the installation kit(flashing, ceiling support, etc) made for that system. The DuraTech is a double wall with its own accessories, and the Dura Plus is a triple wall with its own accessories. I got the DuraPlus kit 50% off at Home Depot a couple years ago, and am kinda eying up the DuraTech double wall now. Might be selling the DuraPlus install kit.

ok thank you, I think i will go with what ever i can find locally and use all the accessories to that particular pipe.

 

[Archer39]

Single wall (or double wall) stove pipe from stove to 1st ceiling penetration, then Class A chimney to rain cap. Ceiling support box is the transition from stove pipe to Class A. It has metal flaps that screw or nail into ceiling joists to support chimney. Is radiation shield = the sheet metal "bullet" that keeps attic insulation away from class A? The roof hole doesn't need another ceiling support box - just a 10-12" hole for a 6" chimney. Storm collar and RTV/silicone - but I dunno how on flat roof. Most use 600 deg F RTF when touching chimney. If chimney extends out more than 5 ft (double check this length) - use a roof brace kit to support.
I'm speaking of stove room-ceiling-attic-roof. Someone else will chime in on fire stop/radiation shield.
And check on how much weight ceiling support box holds. How long is chimney? Say you have 15 ft of chimney and ceiling box supports 12...hmmm, I dunno. It MAY be you add a cathedral ceiling bracket mount inside the chase somewhere. Someone who's done a 2 story install will chime in.
I don't see where need a T.....straight shot cleaning either from top-down or bottom-up.
A good reading source is:
(broken link removed to http://www.selkirkcorp.com/Flash-Installation-Guide/english/supervent/supervent.swf)

i don't think they are the same. I was using this (broken link removed to http://www.duravent.com/docs/instruct/L150_Sept09.pdf) from Simpson install instructions as a guide. Page 8 shows a set up like i will be running. they show both a ceiling support and a fire stop radiation shield being used??


also i see that they sell class A pipe in both double wall and triple wall. Which one do i need when running though the chase to the roof?

I believe you can use either or. They are both 2100 rated. You will however, need to make sure you have/use the installation kit(flashing, ceiling support, etc) made for that system. The DuraTech is a double wall with its own accessories, and the Dura Plus is a triple wall with its own accessories. I got the DuraPlus kit 50% off at Home Depot a couple years ago, and am kinda eying up the DuraTech double wall now. Might be selling the DuraPlus install kit.
Here are a couple interactive guides from their website:
http://www.duravent.com/?page=1a1.php

http://www.duravent.com/?page=1b1.php

I think you only need the fire stop radiation shield when going through a second story ceiling into the attic. From first story to second , the support box will do this as it extends through the floor into the chase in the second story room.
Through the first story ceiling into an attic, the support box & attic insulation shield does this job.
In my case, the support box is tall enough to go from ceiling to the underside off the roof so I don't think I will need the attic insulation shield, as the support box will act as one.

ok thank you. I don't think i will need the attic insulation shield either because my plan is run the chase up right to the roof line. There really is no attic only a air space about 5-10 inches between the finish ceiling the the roof.

 

[moosetrek]

The ceiling support box should handle the three 4' sections of class A pipe that you'll probably need to meet the 10-2-3 rule. you might only need 2, not sure where in the house that flat part of the roof is. If it's on top, you should be good to go unless there's something else up there you need to make the chimney higher than. We have the same stove and I built our hearth last winter. Used 3/4 OSB subfloor, then steel studs, for air circulation, then 2 layers of Durock, then porcelain tile. I drilled the sides of the hearth to allow air to circulate and did the same on the back wall. Met the 1.5 rating with room to spare. I can give you more details & pics if you need, just ask.

 

[Archer39]

The ceiling support box should handle the three 4' sections of class A pipe that you'll probably need to meet the 10-2-3 rule. you might only need 2, not sure where in the house that flat part of the roof is. If it's on top, you should be good to go unless there's something else up there you need to make the chimney higher than. We have the same stove and I built our hearth last winter. Used 3/4 OSB subfloor, then steel studs, for air circulation, then 2 layers of Durock, then porcelain tile. I drilled the sides of the hearth to allow air to circulate and did the same on the back wall. Met the 1.5 rating with room to spare. I can give you more details & pics if you need, just ask.

do you have any pictures of the hearth installed? I still need to figure out how i am going to ventilate the air space. Mine will be installed in a corner.