First year with soapstone.

[Backwoods Savage]

Just wondering what others experience has been.

This being our first year with a soapstone stove is certainly educational. It is more difficult this fall because it takes some time to heat that stone and then it takes a really long time for it to cool. We are just right in the mornings and have to open windows in the afternoon...but we don't mind that at all.

Our only question so far is will this thing do its job this winter?! So far I am not sure it will keep us warm overnight (this stove being our only source of heat). We haven't had any cold yet (only in 20's) so we don't know how things will go once the temperature gets down to zero or colder.

On our coldest night we had a decent bed of coals and I filled the firebox with split white ash about as full as I could get that critter. We sacked out by 10:00 and I was up at 6:00 the next morning and the house was rather cool. Yes, there was a bed of coals and it didn't take long to get the fire going, but the stove thermometer was under 250 degrees when I got up. Needless to say, that does not heat a very large space at that temperature. Naturally, I got the fire going and by noon we were roasting.

But, our main source of hardwood is white ash. Our other big wood is soft (red) maple, which we burn mainly during the daytime or when we want a shorter fire. So....will this thing keep us warm this winter or was we better off keeping a steel stove? Time will tell I guess.

 

[webbie]

Although this may sound like a superstition, when it gets colder stoves seem to heat more. The reality is that running them hotter all the time ends up heating up more interior air and objects, so less heat is required to pull the temperature up (at a given time). Of course, then reality rears it's ugly head and we have actual heat load and heat loss to deal with.

All things being equal, a soapstone stove will heat as much as a steel or cast stove with a similar firebox and combustion system.

That said, it can get cold in Michigan and an 8 hour burn with massive heat outputs is a tough call for most stoves - especially those with fireboxes under 3 cubic feet. The 20's is an average (cold) overnight temp for many areas of the country. I'm fairly certain you will be using some backup when temps get far below that, but very few stoves (other than a central heating system) should be sized for that type of load. I always use the old 65-80% rule - that a stove properly located can take care of that percentage of the overall heat if used full time.

 

[jtp10181]

One thing you could check is heat loss, window seals, doors, attic, etc...

 

[Backwoods Savage]

One thing you could check is heat loss, window seals, doors, attic, etc...

No question that we do have the massive heat loss. However, we figured the soapstone would heat as good as the old steel stove, actually a necessity that it does. With the old steel stove, when it got below zero at night I'd usually have to add a little bit to get through to morning. However, with that, I could add wood and go right back to bed. With the present system when we add wood we have to wait to engage the cat. Enough time to get really woke up and then have a problem finishing with the nights and the body's requirement of sleep time.

All in all, it could prove interesting.

 

[Gunner]

What is the stove?

Nothing wrong with white ash in my book, will be burnig lot of it this year myself.

 

[begreen]

Dennis, do you have a Woodstock? Can you add your stove to your signature?

 

[Backwoods Savage]

What is the stove?

Nothing wrong with white ash in my book, will be burnig lot of it this year myself.

Woodstock Fireview.


I agree totally with your idea of the white ash. Perhaps this says it even better:

Beech wood fires are bright and clear,
If the logs are kept about year.
Chestnut’s only good they say,
If for long it’s laid away.
Birch and fir logs burn too fast,
Blaze up bright and do not last.
Elm wood burns like a churchyard mould,
Even the very flames are cold. (But I'm not so sure about that.)
Poplar gives a bitter smoke,
Fills your eyes and makes you choke.
Apple wood will scent your room,
With incense it like perfume.
Oak and maple if dry and old,
Keep away the winter cold.
But ash wood wet and ash wood dry,
A king shall warm his slippers by.

 

[Gunner]

That doesn't seem right...the fireviews are good long burners. Todd or NYsoapstone should be along soon to advise. This time of year a FULL firebox should be smoking you out overnight.

 

[begreen]

Ah, I thought so. And the previous stove was a big Ashley, with a thermostatic damper, is that correct? How long wood the Ashley hold fire?

Have you tried experimenting with larger splits for the overnight burn?

 

[Todd]

I think you just need a little more time learning the stove. It took me a good month to figure out this stove. What are your stove top temps with a full load? I get my Fireview up to around 550-650 on a full load of Oak or Maple and after 10-12 hr the stove top falls to 250-300.

 

[DriftWood]

Im here in Michigan too. Burning lots of standing Dead Ash. I think the ash is the reason for your shorter burns. The ash is a fast burner. My one year old Hearthstone Heritage will only go all night with real heat in the morning only on a load of large split oak.

The modern EPA stoves can not be shut down like the old air tights could. Burn rates are fixed at the factory, but cleaner.

Smaller load fires, with the softer hardwoods in fall and spring with full fire box loads in the dead of winter with oak at night is what I have learned.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Driftwood, I totally disagree with your assessment of white ash. Perhaps you experience with it is because it was dead. I have no idea of how long it has been dead, but white ash is a very good heating wood. Yes, it can even be burned green in some cases as it does not have the moisture that most other woods hold (which also means it seasons quickly). The ash we have right now has been cut, split and stacked for two years.

BeGreen, you are right on our previous stove...and we still have the Ashley but it is now just a paper burner. The Ashley would hold a fire overnight as long as the temperature outdoors did not get below zero. Then it would hold a fire around six hours; that is, a hot enough fire to produce enough heat to keep the house warm.

Also, we have not done much experimenting yet because of the mild fall weather we've been having. Hope to do some experimenting soon though. (And I will add the stove to my profile. Sorry as I thought I had done that! Another senior moment?)


Todd, you are right that we are still learning the stove. The stovetop temperature we've tried to keep around 400 degrees most of the time during the night but when I loaded up with ash it got over 500 degrees for a short time before we got it back down. We have to keep the draft half way or less than half way between 1 and closed. One tell-tale sign that we haven't been burning too hot of a fire is the dirty glass, although that got almost cleaned up a few days ago. Right as I am typing this, the stove top temperature is below 250 with very little wood in the firebox.

In our experimenting we are getting better at regulating the stove. At first the temperature would go up to 500 degrees or hotter before we could cool it down but lately we haven't had so much problem with that. Also I notice a definite difference when there is a good bed of coals before stocking it up for the night. As it gets colder we will have good coals all the time. One other thing I've noticed is that as the wood burns down some then we can open the draft more without it going nuts.

We've been burning mostly maple other than the one night I tried some ash just to see the difference. The stovetop temperature after about six hours is below 250 degrees, but that is not cramming the firebox full either.

As stated, we will be able to experiment more very soon as the arctic air is coming down to visit us. Also I plan on talking to the good people at Woodstock again very soon about this and another issue.


On another note, to show what is coming, here is the forecast for Marquette, MI:

A Winter Storm Watch remains in effect from Monday afternoon through Tuesday evening.

Snow will develop Monday morning and may become heavy at times Monday afternoon into Tuesday before tapering off Tuesday night. There is the potential for more than 10 inches of snow from this storm... especially for higher terrain locations from Alberta and Big Bay through Negaunee and Skandia. In addition to the heavy snow... strong northwest winds gusting in excess of 40 mph at times will likely cause blowing and drifting of snow late Monday into Tuesday. The strong winds may also break tree limbs and cause power outages.

 

[Todd]

Savage,
I've been running my stove half way between 0 and 1 also this fall. When it gets colder you will have to lower the air even more. I've had times where I just barely crack it open. I don't think you want to use any more air than #1 with the cat engaged because the smoke will go through the cat too fast and not get a chance to ignite. Sometimes when you engage the cat it looks like the fire is going out and your tempted to give it more air, but if you wait a few minutes the flames come back to life and the temp starts to rise. Over firing this stove is 700 degrees, so don't be afraid to go up over 500. This stove really cranks out the heat in the 550-650 range. Another tip is to paint your air control numbers white and put a couple more marks between 0 and 1. Those numbers are kind of hard to see in dim lighting.

Do you live in the Marquette area? Beautiful place. When I was in the US Coast Guard I was stationed there 1994-98 and lived in Skandia. Loved it there except for all that snow.

 

[DriftWood]

Driftwood, I totally disagree with your assessment of white ash. Perhaps you experience with it is because it was dead. I have no idea of how long it has been dead, but white ash is a very good heating wood.

You should White ash that's a different one than the ash we had around here, ours WAS mostly green ash. Enjoy that white ash the emerald ash borer is headed north. Once the borer gets into a ash tree in as little as two years its standing dead wood. They are all going to be dead soon .

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/mda/mda_EAB_Quarantine_Map_195028_7.pdf

http://www.michigan.gov/mda/0,1607,7-125-1568_2390_18298---,00.html

No storm warning's here in the SE Michigan just .16 inches of snow with strong northerlies. Enjoy!

 

[cstrail]

Hi guys, I have the same stove and the same problem as Savage....It was kind of ironic since my wife just said the same thing this morning about our new fireview.... I told her when it gets colder it should heat better.

Anyway, what I need to know is about setting the air control. I usually have it around 1, or less, but should I get it to where the flame is so slow it stops and then you see the smoke ignite, and then goes out again, then re-ignites in a cycle like that or am I choking it? Never had this kind of stove before, and cat's are new to me.

 

[Todd]

Hi guys, I have the same stove and the same problem as Savage....It was kind of ironic since my wife just said the same thing this morning about our new fireview.... I told her when it gets colder it should heat better.

Anyway, what I need to know is about setting the air control. I usually have it around 1, or less, but should I get it to where the flame is so slow it stops and then you see the smoke ignite, and then goes out again, then re-ignites in a cycle like that or am I choking it? Never had this kind of stove before, and cat's are new to me.

I was told by Woodstock to adjust the air til you see the flames start to lift off the logs. This will give the best efficiency and long burns. If I have my air on #1 it has lots of flames but doesn't get as hot. It seems the slower the burn the hotter it gets. That cat feeds off the smoke, so you need the slow burn for all the smoke to ignite. It's a different animal than the non cats where you just give it more air for more heat. You will find that sweet spot as the season goes on.

There is a learning curve with this stove if your not use to a catalytic or soapstone stove. Once you guys get the hang of it and start burning 24/7, you'll love it.

 

[cbrodsky]

I'll concur w/what Todd said - for my chimney, once I engage the catalyst, I leave it at about halfway between 0 and 1. Once you have it up to temperature with the cat on, you should see fairly slow moving flames and sometimes spontaneous ignition if it's hot enough. You shouldn't see rapidly flickering flames.

When you first start the fire, don't be afraid to give it lots of air. Once the fire is raging, if it's a completely cold start, I drop it down to 2 for a while. Then after 15 mins, I'll cut it back to 1, wait a minute and then move to the cat. If it was already warm, I'd just drop straight to 1. I'll then either let it run up to 600 with the cat if it's cold, or move it to 0 to one half if it's not that cold and I want the stovetop close to 450-500. When I'm gone for a while, I leave it around 500 or so, at about one half on the air setting.

If after 10-12 hours, you find the stove is cooler than 350 following a full load, I'd guess the air was left too far open and too much heat went up the chimney, or your wood could stand to be drier.

Also - if these are your first couple fires ever - make sure you build up a nice ash bed in the bottom of the stove as someone else suggested.

It is most challenging to use these in shoulder season as they are meant to ideally run 24x7. For that reason, I wouldn't recommend them for a weekend cabin where you need quick on-demand heat and will likely be around a lot to load it and/or don't care quite as much about wood consumption.

-Colin

 

[rmcfall]

Hi Todd. I find those numbers are hard to see in just about any kind of lighting. What sort of paint did you use?

Savage,
Another tip is to paint your air control numbers white and put a couple more marks between 0 and 1. Those numbers are kind of hard to see in dim lighting.

 

[Todd]

[quote author="rmcfall" date="1194248643"]Hi Todd. I find those numbers are hard to see in just about any kind of lighting. What sort of paint did you use?



I used high temp white spray paint. I went outside and sprayed some into a coffee can, then used a small artist brush. Now the numbers stand out real good.

 

[North of 60]

Hi Todd. I find those numbers are hard to see in just about any kind of lighting. What sort of paint did you use?

Savage,
Another tip is to paint your air control numbers white and put a couple more marks between 0 and 1. Those numbers are kind of hard to see in dim lighting.

If this will help as I also had the same problem. You can buy those 3M do-it LED sticky lights. Before you mount it on the wall at the back of your stove turn it on and move it around the wall until it cast the best light on your dial. Mark it then stick it. It worked for me. :coolsmile:

 

[bcnu]

Savage, you asked a question I was also thinking about. Would have chimed in sooner but had to add a log in my Homestead soapstone and take of my sweatshirt. Temps in my part of Oregon have only gotten below freezing on a couple of nights. So I haven't had any problems keeping the house warm. It's no problem heating the house with the current temps but I began to wonder what it would be like when it gets cold. I'm burning a variety of wood - but I have a cord of well seasoned oak waiting in the wings, and I'm thinking that was a good purchase, as everything else was "free". I've been experimenting with the loads, draft settings etc. . Getting to feel like I know the stove better every day. I usually have the air control fully open when I put in new wood, let it start to burn, then close it all the way. It's pretty responsive. I did a lot of research and read a lot of comments on this website before putting in the stove. I get the burn times etc that you all talked about. The liner, with a 4' extension, gives me great draft. I'm going to buy a stovetop thermometer tomorrow. Since we won't be heating 24/7 for a bit longer I like the idea that colder weather means better heating. So far we think this stove was well worth the investment. I do have the oil furnace ready to go but don't think we'll need it - and at $2.90 a gal(and that was a month ago) I"m not too anxious to use it., and I can always put the sweatshirt back on.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Todd, although we used to live south of Marquette in the Gladstone/Escanaba area we now are in the lower peninsula. Althoug we are not afraid to run the stove hotter there is just no need for that right now. In fact, we've had it burning very slowly and a couple times did not even get it hot enough to engage the cat. Then we got the chill off and did not feed any more wood.

We too have noticed the flame above the wood which is sort of neat and pretty. However, that flame dies after a bit and you then have glowing coals which are also very nice to see. And I am anxious to see what happens when we need some good cooking heat from this beast.

btw, my wife has already cooked a few things on the stove and it is great. What we've used under the cooking pot is the little soapstone blocks Woodstock sells for boot dryers. I also plan on using those boot dryers in one of the big muffs that are used to keep one's hands warm when outdoors, like in hunting situation. Should work like a charm.




Driftwood, yes, we do also have some of the borer in the area. So far only 3 or 4 of our trees have been infested and we cut them as soon as we see they are in the tree. We've even cut some and sawed them into lumber, which is now drying in our shed. I cut two more down last week and have a couple more that appear to be infested. That's okay though as ash makes good firewood. I just hate to lose all of them. Hopefully they won't attack the young ash as it regrows.



NY Soapstone, we have to be a little careful when starting the fire. Can't leave the draft open too far because our stovepipe runs straight (well, uphill some) out through the wall and the chimney runs up the side of the house. They say the pipe should raise 1/4" per foot when horizontal but we run ours about 1/2" per foot. So if we don't cut our draft back sooner the pipe gets kind of hot and we get some stink yet (that's another problem).

I find it amazing that you wrote, "If after 10-12 hours, you find the stove is cooler than 350 following a full load, I’d guess the air was left too far open and too much heat went up the chimney, or your wood could stand to be drier." Well, overnight our setting is either about 1/2 or 1/4 at most and the wood has been seasoned 2 years and is covered so highly doubt that is the problem.

Just how much of an ash bed do you build up in your stove?

 

[Todd]

I find it amazing that you wrote, "If after 10-12 hours, you find the stove is cooler than 350 following a full load, I’d guess the air was left too far open and too much heat went up the chimney, or your wood could stand to be drier." Well, overnight our setting is either about 1/2 or 1/4 at most and the wood has been seasoned 2 years and is covered so highly doubt that is the problem.

Just how much of an ash bed do you build up in your stove?

Mine is more like 250-300 after 10-12hrs. Maybe I need more ash bed? I know Woodstock recommends 1" ash bed, but I just don't like all that ash. I like to clean it out about every 3 days.

 

[thephotohound]

I have the Keystone (very similar stove, but a smaller firebox is the result of an ash pan), and I love it. I am currently burning a mixture of birch, pine, and some punky oak. I have been getting the stove top to around 425-450 with a full load (perfect for this time of year). Once I start with the oak and maple, I'll be well over 500. It does take some getting used to, I must admit. Our first year (last year), I burned green wood (without knowing it - I got hoodwinked and didn't know how to tell green from seasoned) This will be my first season with good seasoned wood... I can't wait! As the weather gets colder outside, the stove really does work better. I think you'll love it eventually... just takes practice.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I have the Keystone (very similar stove, but a smaller firebox is the result of an ash pan), and I love it. I am currently burning a mixture of birch, pine, and some punky oak. I have been getting the stove top to around 425-450 with a full load (perfect for this time of year). Once I start with the oak and maple, I'll be well over 500. It does take some getting used to, I must admit. Our first year (last year), I burned green wood (without knowing it - I got hoodwinked and didn't know how to tell green from seasoned) This will be my first season with good seasoned wood... I can't wait! As the weather gets colder outside, the stove really does work better. I think you'll love it eventually... just takes practice.

PhotoHound, are you sure you should be burning birch and pine in that stove? It seems to me that either one of those might cause some problems with the cat.! For sure if you burn that, I'd think it should be seasoned at a minimum of a year for birch and probably longer with the pine. With the birch, you have the black smoke at the start but that might clear up before you engage the cat. but with the pitch in pine, that just seems to me that it might cause a problem.

For this time of year a 425-450 degree stovetop would for sure cook us out! If you need that type of temperature now, I'd guess you don't have too harsh of a winter out there. I'm still trying to imagine what it will be like when the temperature drops below zero or some of those days when it doesn't even get as high as zero and we have a 35 mph wind. Those are days when you stay close to the stove