Yes, they all blow air up the back and over top around exhaust. The side slots allow two smaller blowers.
Fisher Insert: Should I get it?
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Oh good. I might just get a second small blower then. I went with a smaller blower since it had a housing that seemed like it would be easier to keep my toddler from sticking fingers into. Yeah, yeah, not as powerful and efficient, but fingers are important and I'm not a fabricator. Not even to make one out of a mailbox. LOL. That was so creative of that guy though. The husband is gonna modify the blower housing slightly with some tin roof/sheet metal he has to make it fit better. If HE wants to fiddle with an upgrade later, he is more than welcome to.
Ok. It's all cleaned up. We burned something in it outside to see if the paint would stink or smoke, but it didn't really. The husband is beyond excited now. I didn't realize he always wanted a stove since he was a kid. I'll post another pic after it's permanently installed.
Thanks! Yeah, it looks legit now. The novelty fan was fun to play with. :D Still waiting on the chimney liner. Half the kit came in. I guess I'll clean and paint the fireplace while I wait for it to show up. Which, I hope is soon. A cold front is coming in, and temps are supposed to start dropping at night. The screen really makes me happy too as my toddler seems to spend all day every day trying to figure out how to hurt himself. He has been "helping" clean the chimney, "helping" paint, "helping" daddy climb up the latter, and attempting to disassemble the blower. Some serious training on fire safety is in order.
You will find with doors open and screen in place the stove itself won’t heat up much. Tons of air goes through the screen burning as fast as it can allowing most all of the heat up the chimney. They are not considered a radiant heater in Fireplace Mode. That’s what the flue damper is for.
When burning well, screen in place, slowly close damper until you see smoke begin to accumulate and start to roll in at top of door opening. Open slightly, just enough to evacuate smoke, and this is the setting that will slow the rising gasses in chimney slowing the air through the fire. With screen in place the flue damper becomes your only fire control.
When burning well, screen in place, slowly close damper until you see smoke begin to accumulate and start to roll in at top of door opening. Open slightly, just enough to evacuate smoke, and this is the setting that will slow the rising gasses in chimney slowing the air through the fire. With screen in place the flue damper becomes your only fire control.
Piney
Burning Hunk
How has it been progressing? We heat with a Grandma bear but outside we use our insert under a roof as a fireplace. We often think of swapping the two units with each other and, when the insert is inside, constructing a rock hearth around it. So, naturally, we have been following your story with great interest.
Hi Piney. So due to the national shipping crisis we are still waiting for the second package with the chimney liner. And the larger face/flashing that fits our fireplace is on backorder. Sooooo, twiddling my thumbs. I did get in touch with our insurance guy. He wants a pic for the file once it's in. I also got new handles for the screen. And I lined up a guy to help the hubs install it. And I made firestarter out of old coffee grounds since I have a coffee shop and lots of those. Supposedly the liner comes tomorrow. We'll see.
Sweet. You have double Fishers. How does your insert under a roof do? Do you mean like under a picnic shelter?
Piney
Burning Hunk
Yes. We have been knocked around by supply chain problems too. So far there has always been a solution but it has always upped the costs.
We hope you get what you need quickly!!
The outdoor Fisher is good. Yes, under a picnic shelter. We use the smoke to chase away mosquitos during the Spring. Works well - we never breathe it but you wouldn’t believe it if you didn’t see it. The smoke runs up the ceiling and spills out the edges like a riding curtain.
We don’t really need fire starter up at the house for the Fisher because once we light it in September it burns until sometime in March! As for the kitchen range, though, we use kindling and a paper knot or dryer lint!
Piney
Burning Hunk
Piney
Burning Hunk
PS. There is also a Fisher in our shop and a Fisher in our big detached greenhouse as well. Both of those are Mama Bears. The very far end of our house still has a pot belly (McClary?) Belle Oak 12b made in 1895 and the sun room/orangery off the kitchen has an old Orley. But we usually only light that when it’s below -40 (so the plants don’t die as the glass in there is single pane and when it’s bitterly cold enough heat doesn’t leak in on its own to keep the tomato’s and peppers and flowers going).
So I guess we are a 4 Fisher family. Never thought about that before.
The reason we bought the double door stoves back in the day, though, was just because we can open the doors and run in fireplace mode on special occasions. The kids sometimes would roast marshmallows and hot dogs in the living room. The insert got moved from its spot after later renovations made it redundant. So we hauled it on the stone boat down to the picnic shelter and it has worked out ideal there. We keep thinking about swapping the pot belly for a modern small stove but it never seems financially worth it. And if it hasn’t set the home on fire by now the old stove never will …
So I guess we are a 4 Fisher family. Never thought about that before.
The reason we bought the double door stoves back in the day, though, was just because we can open the doors and run in fireplace mode on special occasions. The kids sometimes would roast marshmallows and hot dogs in the living room. The insert got moved from its spot after later renovations made it redundant. So we hauled it on the stone boat down to the picnic shelter and it has worked out ideal there. We keep thinking about swapping the pot belly for a modern small stove but it never seems financially worth it. And if it hasn’t set the home on fire by now the old stove never will …
That's amazing! Thanks for sharing. Love the pics too!
Ok, so all parts finally came. We got the stove up into the hearth. We got the chimney liner halfway down the chimney, and then it got stuck. LOL. Then the baby got mad, it got darker outside and we took a break. Gonna try it again to rotate it a bit. It's just off center a tiny bit and one corner is hanging against the chimney sidewall. She's a tight fit.
@coaly Hey. Regarding the tag on the side, CES 60 is the manufacturer. Do you know who was CE and where were they located? I couldn't get the tag clean enough to read, but my sweetie of course had no problem. Other info, we can now see it's a listed stove H666 310 manufactured 9-18-81. Which makes it 1 year older than me, and 2 years older than the hubs.
Pics just for fun:
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Do you have a pulling cone? If not I have trick that might help, fill a plastic grocery bad full of other bags and make a ball, shove that in the liner (end going into chimney) pull the retractable mesh down past the end and tie a rope on. drop the rope down and have some on pull on it to guide down keep pressure but don't pull too hard.
Thanks!
No. I did not want to spend $90 on a pulling cone just for this one project. If we are going to be do this every 3 years or so when it needs replacing though, I'm totes gonna get one after this experience. Lol. We can try the mesh thing if we can't get it unstuck this morning.
profdlp
Member
3 years? I think you can expect a lot longer than that. Quotes I got before I did my own were talking about a 20-year warranty on the liner itself.
I made a hillbilly pulling cone using a 6"-to-5" stovepipe adapter I bought for about $8 at Ace. I wish I had taken a picture of it. I basically used small sheet metal button screws to attach the liner to the 6" side, then drilled three holes 120-degrees apart around the 5" side and passed rope through them to make a harness. I'd have never gotten mine done without it.
You look like you are about where I was after day 1. Bet when you get up there and twist it side to side you can wiggle it through. 🙂
Oh really? I guess we will see how it goes then. Anyway, Josh got it all the way down! Trying to squeeze it past the damper box now. hahaha. This is a real learning experience for sure.
With a light wall liner on an old stove like that unless abused it should last at minimum 10 years probably 15 to 20 though. Did you cut the damper frame out?
Sweet! Because if we have to do this frequently, the kids will learn too many 4 lettered words. lol. We were trying to avoid cutting out the damper frame by crimping the end but it didn't work at all. Cutting the frame now. It wasn't something the online guides ever mentioned. So again, you guys are a great help.
C. E. Smith Co, also known as CESCO. Large metal fabricator still in business, Greensboro North Carolina. Local fabricators couldn’t build stoves fast enough, so manufacturers of other items such as farm machinery, trash compactor machines, retooled for stove production. Most were still finished by hanging doors, ash fender and final assembly by the local fabricator selling the stove, and later moving them on to a network of suppliers from hardware stores to grocery, furniture or plumbing shops that added the seasonal sales into their business. When Bob started the business he only wanted the licensed fabricator to do the work and make $100 for their effort on each stove, but demand required a network of additional sellers and suppliers.
That's cool. That's where we always did our Christmas shopping every year. We are about an hour away from Greensboro, so it makes sense that it was made right there. Thanks for the info.
Ah, so we cut a hole in the damper frame to fit the liner through, though it took a few blades. Then found out the 8" stove adapter is too large to fit into the 8" hole in the insert. The people we bought the stove from must not have attached it to a liner at all. They also used a different damper instead of the original because they could never figure out how to make the original fit correctly. Looking at what they did use, I don't think it would work with our liner. Thankfully, they kept the original we have it. Hubs did some filing around the edges where welds were messy and it almost fits now, but gonna have to work on it gain this afternoon. I guess since we have to cut slots in the adapter to fit over the damper rod anyway, it will be ok. Just posting this in case any other DIY newbies might find it helpful later to see all the little fussiness this install has required.
Correct, or a “boot“ is bolted to the top, sometimes making it easier if you need an angle coming off the top of Insert. Notched for damper rod as necessary.
Success! Lots of sawing of the damper box to fix the angle, finally got it to fit. In order to squeeze the adapter end into the stove we cut some slits into the bottom of the adapter so it could be pinched slightly smaller inside the stove hole. Then sealed it off with the high temp stove silicon before bolting it down with L brackets. It's not going anywhere. We did notch it for the damper like other posters said to do.
Fired it up and ran the stove two nights now without installing the facing. Facing's going on today. Then we'll tinker with the blower. The Fisher starts a fire and keeps it going much more easily than an open fireplace, and I'm not used to that. I need more practice starting a fire without any smoke in the beginning phases, or letting it get too hot as it comes up to temp. We noticed the liner glowing a dull red for about 6" where it hooks into the adapter. I guess that means I over fired it. I'mma have to work on that.
We have a leftover piece of the high temp chimney insulation foil back wool. I guess we should stuff it up to block off around where the old damper used to be/was cut out? to further block any air going up the chimney that is not through the liner? There isn't much space between the liner insulation and the masonry wall of the chimney but I suppose there's a little. The husband thinks maybe we should use it to insulate around the adapter connector going into the top of the stove but I see on the forums here that may not be a great idea.
Right now the stove is a steady 400, no glow. It's keeping the room around 74 and bedroom hallway's reading 70. Since we have the heat pump set for 68, the stove is doing it's job. Hooray!
Fired it up and ran the stove two nights now without installing the facing. Facing's going on today. Then we'll tinker with the blower. The Fisher starts a fire and keeps it going much more easily than an open fireplace, and I'm not used to that. I need more practice starting a fire without any smoke in the beginning phases, or letting it get too hot as it comes up to temp. We noticed the liner glowing a dull red for about 6" where it hooks into the adapter. I guess that means I over fired it. I'mma have to work on that.
We have a leftover piece of the high temp chimney insulation foil back wool. I guess we should stuff it up to block off around where the old damper used to be/was cut out? to further block any air going up the chimney that is not through the liner? There isn't much space between the liner insulation and the masonry wall of the chimney but I suppose there's a little. The husband thinks maybe we should use it to insulate around the adapter connector going into the top of the stove but I see on the forums here that may not be a great idea.
Right now the stove is a steady 400, no glow. It's keeping the room around 74 and bedroom hallway's reading 70. Since we have the heat pump set for 68, the stove is doing it's job. Hooray!
When starting the fire only open air dampers 2 or 3 turns. If you’re using too much kindling, paper or cardboard it can roar up the stack. To prevent that during start up you can tilt flue damper slightly until roar stops. This prevents so much heat from rushing up stack (you may also have an exceptionally good draft) when starting. This is also when you want the heat in the firebox to preheat the larger pieces as it starts. Closing damper slightly allows it to get as much air as it can without slowing the start by closing air dampers to slow the roar. A few minutes after lighting you should be able to close air dampers to about 2 turns. Once the kindling ignites the larger pieces, open flue damper fully and control fire with air intake dampers. One turn each is about normal, more or less for desired heat output.
Installing a baffle plate reduces the temperature spikes up the stack making them much more controllable. Highly recommend adding one for efficiency and ease of keeping flue temperature in check!
Not sure what temperature rating is on the high temp silicone you used at the connector joint. That area normally gets too hot for silicone. I use stove and gasket cement for that since it is a sealant first higher temperature that dries like cement. It is used between joints in cast iron stoves where bolted together.
Inserts are the most difficult to adjust for the ideal temperature since you don’t have exposed pipe above it for a surface thermometer. Ideally you want a surface thermometer a couple feet above the appliance to read 250* or above when smoke is present. Since the outer surface is about 1/2 the actual flue temp, that makes flue gases at that point about 500*f. This factors in cooling to the top back down to approximately 250* at the top.
This is the goal operating the stove correctly. Below 250* while smoke is present, water vapor from combustion condenses on the flue walls allowing smoke particles to stick. This forms creosote. So keeping inner flue temp above 250* all the way to the top prevents creosote and the need to clean frequently. Without a thermometer is like driving a vehicle without a speedometer, guessing by how much creosote you form. When too much heat is left up, that is wasted heat not being radiated into home, decreasing efficiency.
Overuse of the flue damper decreases the velocity of rising gasses which decreases net draft. This is the most common mistake forming creosote. Leaving it open and control with air dampers and a baffle plate is the most efficient and easiest way to keep clean and safe.
Installing a baffle plate reduces the temperature spikes up the stack making them much more controllable. Highly recommend adding one for efficiency and ease of keeping flue temperature in check!
Not sure what temperature rating is on the high temp silicone you used at the connector joint. That area normally gets too hot for silicone. I use stove and gasket cement for that since it is a sealant first higher temperature that dries like cement. It is used between joints in cast iron stoves where bolted together.
Inserts are the most difficult to adjust for the ideal temperature since you don’t have exposed pipe above it for a surface thermometer. Ideally you want a surface thermometer a couple feet above the appliance to read 250* or above when smoke is present. Since the outer surface is about 1/2 the actual flue temp, that makes flue gases at that point about 500*f. This factors in cooling to the top back down to approximately 250* at the top.
This is the goal operating the stove correctly. Below 250* while smoke is present, water vapor from combustion condenses on the flue walls allowing smoke particles to stick. This forms creosote. So keeping inner flue temp above 250* all the way to the top prevents creosote and the need to clean frequently. Without a thermometer is like driving a vehicle without a speedometer, guessing by how much creosote you form. When too much heat is left up, that is wasted heat not being radiated into home, decreasing efficiency.
Overuse of the flue damper decreases the velocity of rising gasses which decreases net draft. This is the most common mistake forming creosote. Leaving it open and control with air dampers and a baffle plate is the most efficient and easiest way to keep clean and safe.
Ah, sorry. I meant to say we used gasket stove cement we picked up at Rural King in the woodstove section.
Thank you for the helpful tutorial on firestarting! I will keep working on it.
So, I showed the hubs your baffle thread and he rigged one up for us by cutting up the old chimney damper plate. It seems to have fixed the problem of flames going up the pipe like you said. It also seems to have fixed the smoke on startup problem (either that or the hubs is just better at building smokeless fires than me). I had decided to use a cast iron griddle for the baffle plate, but he was aghast I would use cookware in such a way and it motivated him to make one lol.
We finally got the facing on. It took 6 hours of waiting for the stove to cool (had to take all the ash out finally). Then 4 hours of fiddling and swearing at it. I had to buy a larger facade to cover the original as our fireplace opening is extra wide. It barely fit.
Pics of the new/old stove in it's new home:
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