Flame size with hopper open?

[freebird77]

When I open the hopper door on my P61 I notice the flame changes, gets smaller, actually. Is this normal?

 

[kilarney]

Yup. It's normal. Happens with my Accentra. When you open the hopper, the draft is affected. I'm sure someone here who is smarter than me can explain why.

 

[tinkabranc]

Same here, flame flutters some when hopper is open while loading more fuel.

 

[freebird77]

Ok I thought that would be it. Just checking. Thank you.

 

[GVA]

normal
when open, you're pulling air through the hopper across the auger and over the burn pot
normally you're pulling air from under the burnpot

 

[kyburnr]

I may be wrong, but I was told that the stove will shut down if its left open.....or if there is a pellet or something between the glass and the seal

 

[trogers]

I was told by my installer that the sensor shuts off the combustion blower, which results in a lower flame that will eventually go out to to lack of oxygen.

 

[freebird77]

GVA,
Could that be why when the hopper is say,less then half full, Im getting some, not a lot, of smoke in there? I posted earlier about noticing the smoke again, last April I noticed the smoke and dealer came out and did some tube modification to it, but it was late in the season and I didnt use it much after that so Im not sure if it really fixed it, or is this small amount of smoke normal, with the slider plate opening for the pellet drop, and smoke coming in from the burnpot?

 

[toastyinri]

GVA,
Could that be why when the hopper is say,less then half full, Im getting some, not a lot, of smoke in there? I posted earlier about noticing the smoke again, last April I noticed the smoke and dealer came out and did some tube modification to it, but it was late in the season and I didnt use it much after that so Im not sure if it really fixed it, or is this small amount of smoke normal, with the slider plate opening for the pellet drop, and smoke coming in from the burnpot?

Smoke in the hopper is NOT normal. I'm on my 2nd "replaced under warranty" Harman Advance. Three stoves total installed. I posted here with my problems with it back in 2005-2007 when the problem occured with each of the first two. When the "modification" for the stove was announced, I went on a mission to speak to Harman directly and suceeded. I documented in pictures, smoke coming out of the hopper (only when half to less filled) and photos of the incrusted black charred slide plate). I also posted the photos here last year.
Harman's response was immediate "your stove will be replaced". I demanded that the replacement stove with the modification come from the factory.
The guy at Harman actually called ME on the phone after receiving my pictures and documentaion that I had sent via email. The response and call came within a half hour of him receiving it. He asked me several question about the first two stoves and how they had operated. I had all the information he needed.

My 3rd stove was delivered to my new dealers store and as I said I would do I went to the store and examined the new stove...top to bottom...before accepting delivery. I've been burning since early October, a few hours a day and recently all through the night with no problems....yet.

Since I've had two previous stoves, the 1st which I burned from 2005 through 2006 and the 2nd for 6 months in 2007 til March 2008, I can say so far that this stove with the factory modification is giving a strong, hot, clean burn....so far with no problems . I was very happy with the first two stoves and heat out put...but this one tops the previous two. I'm using the same brand pellets (Fireside Ultra) that I used in the first two.

What I noticed immediately with the new stove is that I'm getting a full pellet burn...with no charred material to scrape in the burn pot...just fluffy fine ash to wipe away when it builds up in front. Window glass is staying cleaner for much longer but of course I haven't been buring 24/7 yet.

The reason I went 'direct' with Harman....and trust me it took some fancy footwork and fast talking to get there...is because I didn't want "some guy" coming in my home with a drill in hand to put holes in my burn pot. I wanted that modification to be made at the factory so I wouldn't have to question if the guy did it right.

If your getting smoke in your hopper,,,,at the next cleaning...pull your slide plate . If there is black encrusted gunk on it...thats one of the sources of the problem. The wording I used with Harman was....where theres smoke there's fire, and it's a short jump from the auger tube, up the pellet chute to the hopper.

 

[GVA]

kyburner and freebird
if you have the hopper lid cracked open by a pellet or not snapped down, when you go into low draft mode and when you have less pellets in the hopper several things can happen. you may get a wisp of smoke back in the hopper, especially if your stove is dirty and you have a vent configuration that doesn't promote good natural draft, Ie: direct vent or one with several bends in it.
if you have your hopper cracked open you can often hear it as it will make a woofing noise which sounds like a helicopter in the distance and the flames dance a little.
This is another reason why checking draft at install is important especially LOW DRAFT.

Toasty is right about alot of smoke and the slide plate, if your slide plate looks like that then you best get the dealer to deal with it the auger and tube will look like the slide plate. By the way thanks for posting those pics....

 

[GVA]

I was told by my installer that the sensor shuts off the combustion blower, which results in a lower flame that will eventually go out to to lack of oxygen.

You have been misinformed
once the stove has proof of fire then the comb blower will not shut down till ESP sees a low temp like 90* or if it is unplugged.
vacuum switch shuts off the auger and ignitor.

 

[toastyinri]

kyburner and freebird
if you have the hopper lid cracked open by a pellet or not snapped down, when you go into low draft mode and when you have less pellets in the hopper several things can happen. you may get a wisp of smoke back in the hopper, especially if your stove is dirty and you have a vent configuration that doesn't promote good natural draft, Ie: direct vent or one with several bends in it.
if you have your hopper cracked open you can often hear it as it will make a woofing noise which sounds like a helicopter in the distance and the flames dance a little.
This is another reason why checking draft at install is important especially LOW DRAFT.

Toasty is right about alot of smoke and the slide plate, if your slide plate looks like that then you best get the dealer to deal with it the auger and tube will look like the slide plate. By the way thanks for posting those pics....

I should have mentioned the condition of the feed tube and auger with my first stove.....eventually the chain will start jumping and falling off because of the build up and resistance inside the tube and on the auger wings themselves. My first stove was so seized up that the dealer couldn't pull out the auger...I didn't wait that long with the 2nd stove....first puff of smoke that came up from it and I started getting the ball rolling for a replacement right away. If your chain starts jumping and falling off...here's a quick fix to get you throught the season. With the chain off, unit unplugged, hold rocker arm up and turn the augerbackwards,,,You might need to use a hammer and a wrench to get it to budge backwards....you'll hear the charred stuff crunching and breaking off....when you can move it backwards and forwards with little resistance, reattach the chain...easy to do...just use a long screw driver and hold it under the chain with unit on and feeding and guide it on to the moving sprockets . run the unit on test mode and you'll push all the charred stuff out of the auger tube and into the burn pot...you might have to do it a couple of times if there were pellets in the tube. save the charred material for "evidence"...your pieces will be large chunks...and in my case almost a perfect "mold" of the auger wings.

If you've seen smoke in your hopper whether a lot or a little...a good little test is to sniff a handful of pellets when the hopper is more than half down...if they smell smoky...chances are that it's smoked but you just didn't catch it at the point where it did it.

 

[freebird77]

Thanks Toasti.
I remember corresponding with you via the forum about the smoke last spring. I called the dealer yesterday and talked to the repairman that did the tube mod. He said He would call the manufacturer and would call me back. That was only yesterday, so Ill give them a day or two before I call back. I really dont want to mess around back there, Im afraid if I do something wrong I might void the warrenty. Thanks for the info. Ill keep you posted. Good luck with the new stove. These things are too expensive to have this kind of problem, especially in so new a stove.