Flue can't take a full liner -- now what?

[jamkam]

We are po'd. We picked out a PE Summit (in August!) then the local dealer (who shall remain nameless -- for now) came out , confirmed my measurements and checked out (we thought) our fireplace and chimney for an insert.

So he we are today, the day for the install is finally here, and the delivery arrives but then, the installer tells me that from the smoke shelf, our flue takes an awkward 90 degree S-turn up to the chimney flue and it's impossible to do a full liner only a 1/2 liner. He explains, that it may be tough to find a sweep to clean it yearly (the whole unit has to be pulled he says), is not even sure it'd be to code and furthermore, we may have draft issues because of the constriction of the flue. (With my occasional mood enhancing fireplace use in the past, I've usually had to warm the flue w/ newspaper before getting the kindling going to prevent puff backs).

So getting over the let down, where does this leave us? I'm going to ask our sweep and another installer for a second/third opinion. We really have no option for a free-standing stove; our only fireplace is downstairs right near the wood I've been stacking. Would appreciate learned feedback.

 

[daveswoodhauler]

Can you provide a pic of your setup?
Also, how long is the 90 degree run before going verticle?
(Some good minds here...I'm sure someone will have some thoughts)

 

[Todd]

Is the dealer using flex liner? I know my fireplace has a slight 90 degree offset around the smoke shelf and up, but a flex liner would bend right around it.

 

[jamkam]

Thanks, I'll take a pic and post it later. The hearth sits on a 45 degree in the room. The flue offsets twice to meet the chimney flue.

It's about a 3-4 foot run. The installer said he's been doing them for over 10 yrs and has never seen a 90 degree like ours ...until this month.
Yes, they're using flex but w/ an S he says' it'll crimp and won't work.

 

[80s Burnout]

You may be able to get a flex-liner in there, but a 90 degree angle could be tough. An "s" is one thing, but a 90 degree angle is another. I had to work my flex-liner though a ~45 angle. It was tough, but I did have some room in the smoke chamber area to work which made it easier. Get some old clothes on and get up in there and make your own assessment...if you can.

 

[jamkam]

The installer that was here today already said that the "S" is 90 deg --- so it takes a 90 over and then another 90 up. This is one case where I want it done right; We're paying them to install it and I also don't consider myself advise them on the method of the proper install.

 

[80s Burnout]

Ouch! Well, see what others here say. Bending flex-liner for that kind of set-up may not happen.

 

[gpcollen1]

Sounds like you just need someone to put something together for you. So what - you have to take it apart to clean yearly - worse things have happened. Sound like a toughy but it can be done. Good luck.

 

[snowtime]

Maybe I missed something but could you run double walled chimney up from the stove and then break into the main chimney above the s turns. Many have done this. It just remains to find out exactly how high the s turn is.

Just noticed you have an insert. If all fails you could trade your insert for a stove.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Can you chip away the shelf to smooth out the flow?

Matt

 

[jamkam]

Talked to what I think is a reputable sweep/installer for a "second opinion." He said from the sound of it, a 1/2 liner is no problem and it should draft reasonably well and will just mean a higher cost yearly to pull the stove and sweep. He didn't say anything about my prognosis, tho.

Finally,what I am wondering now is how common these weird shaped flues are and most importantly, how the draw might effect the efficiency of this insert.

 

[jamkam]

We're close to throwing in the towel.

The retailer/installer who has our Summit says he can't (or doesn't want to be bothered?) install a full liner as described originally; A local chimney 'expert' says there's a new study flexible liner recently introduced that will make 90 deg. flue turns and another dealer (who sells Lopi/Avalon) says he too has heard of this liner. I called Pacific Energy and they say a full liner is "desirable but not essential but will produce the best draft."

We're really at our wits end. We want the Summit (looks, efficiency) but if the dealer won't go the extra mile we'd rather be safe than sorry. Anyone else find satisfactory resolution to this puzzle?

 

[Todd]

Another option you might want to think of is using a 5" or 5.5" liner? They would probably make the turn easier than a 6". Many people here are using these with great results. But it may be hard to pass local codes or get an installer to do that. My stove is hooked up to a 5.5" Homesaver s/s liner and I had no problem pulling it through a sharp 90 bend and draft is excellent.

 

[Wet1]

How accessible is this jog? If you can get to it w/o to much difficulty, you might see if it can me removed (or at least be partially removed). If you can't do it yourself, it might cost a few $ for a mason to do it, but I imagine it can be removed.

 

[stack happy]

I have the same awkward 90 degree S-turn up to the chimney flue and a the hearth sits on a 45 degree in the room.

The installer put in a ( T ) with a new clean out door out side the chimney. (about 8' off the ground )So the liner goes from the insert up to the T ( so you can clean the liner from the outside )
and then the liner goes up to the top of the chimney with a cap. The installer took out the flue and insulated the top part of the liner with 12 bags of cement like inslation I dont know the name of it. My insert is a 5100I and burns soooooooooo nice.

 

[joustinghill]

I'd get at least one more opinion, if not two more. The first guy we had out to do our install told us it was flat out impossible to install a full liner and that we'd have to do stovepipe up and break into the flue above the smoke shelf. The second guy told us we could do a full liner but we'd have to order a few parts custom. The third guy laughed really hard after coming out and looking at our setup and told us that not only could he do a full liner but that it would only take him about an hour and that he had no idea why the first two thought it was so hard. Guess which one I hired.

 

[BJ64]

Use explosives.

 

[jamkam]

I have the same awkward 90 degree S-turn up to the chimney flue and a the hearth sits on a 45 degree in the room.

The installer put in a ( T ) with a new clean out door out side the chimney. (about 8' off the ground )So the liner goes from the insert up to the T ( so you can clean the liner from the outside )
and then the liner goes up to the top of the chimney with a cap. The installer took out the flue and insulated the top part of the liner with 12 bags of cement like inslation I dont know the name of it. My insert is a 5100I and burns soooooooooo nice.

Yes, that sounds like ours too, 45 deg angled fireplace in room, which means it seems to take a 75-80 deg turn off the smoke shelf then runs 3-4 feet to the main flue, where they say it takes another 90 up the main chimney flue.

We had a bloke come yesterday from the Avalon/Lopi dealer who said he'd prob chip away a bit of the smoke shelf to help w/ a 6" flex liner install but thinks it's doable and say the liner and install will cost around $1600(!) to install. Had one chimney guy say he could do the same thing and would fill the flue w/ vermiculite to insulate, but he got very weird on us (a real cussin' sailor type) who can't do it for 1-2 months, so he's out of the question. Really want the Summit but if the dealer/installer won't/can't do it, what are the options? We're running out of chimney experts and in the NE USA, everyone seems booked thru February doing jobs.

If anyone here can recommend crackerjack installers in the S.W. Conn region (Danbury, Bethel etc) let us know. Maybe we can buy the SUmmit and have it installed by a 3rd party, just wondering how that would effect warranty etc. Can just imagine having a problem and the dealer saying "Well, we didn't install it, so it's not our problem."

 

[gpcollen1]

If the Avalon/Lopi guys were V&V;, I would trust them on the install for sure. Sebastian and the boys are pretty good. I only have word of mouth on their handy work but have been in the shop a bunch of times.

I don't know the Summit to well but do know it is a larger stove and I don't think you are doing yourselves a disservice by purchasing an Olympic.

You can definitely buy the stove and have someone else install it.

I am in the Danbury area if you want me to come by and take a look for a sanity check? I am no expert but have installed a few stoves using liner, DVL and going to do my second stove with Duraliner.

 

[crazy_dan]

As much as I love my Summit there is no reason to deal with a dealer that doesn't want to do things the way you want them done. I know I would be happy with a big LOPI as well and if their installers say they can do it then by all means go with the LOPI and get a full liner.