Flue Liner - company says it can't install - are they right?

[RoderickSteiner]

Hello,

I'm so glad I found this forum.

I had completed the purchase of an Osburn 1600 wood stove (with a refundable deposit) to put in my basement in Quebec. I live in the basement and rent the upstairs, which has a wood stove insert using a separate flue. The installers came and looked at the flue. They were planning to insert a 6 inch flue because many tiles are cracked or broken. But they told me that it would be impossible because the opening was too small.

They also informed me that they do not install 5" flues because they have far too many problems with the stoves smoking.

Their only recommendation was that I seek out a mason. I have spoken to a mason. He is going to have a look but because it's an interior flue, it seems he won't be able to do anything to help.

Anyways I'm on a tight budget (just bought my first house), and I couldn't afford to pay thousands for a mason on top of the current costs.

Is it true that a 5" won't work? Could the tiles be removed to make room for the 6"? Am I just plain screwed?

Thanks for reading.

 

[pen]

If it's a tall run, 5.5 can work. However, the manual of most stoves states not to use a liner that is smaller than the stove collar outlet. So, even if you used a 5 inch, it may not be compliant with the stove company's minimum requirements for the installation.

When it comes to the mason, it might not be as costly as you are thinking to break out the masonry tiles and perhaps that would give you enough room for a 5.5 liner and insulation?

(BTW, you'll need insulation also if you chimney is not up to snuff)

Welcome to the site!

pen

 

[RoderickSteiner]

Thanks for this pen!

My run is about 25'.

I just googled the manual ((broken link removed to http://www.northlineexpress.com/media/wysiwyg/pdf/5os-ob01613-manual.pdf)), which says:

Flue Outlet: 6” (152 mm) diameter (vertical)

Does that mean that a 5.5" wouldn't be allowed?

 

[bryan]

I'd definitely get a second or third opinion if they are free. I had 5 installers give me estimates for putting a liner in my chimney/fireplace. 3 said they do it and gave a reasonable price (though the local stove shop was a bit pricier than others), one said he wouldn't touch it due to safety hazards, and one wanted 5x what the other 3 said it would cost. In the end a CSIA sweep did the install for what seemed reasonable. It wasn't easy due to a couple bends but they got it done.

 

[pen]

Thanks for this pen!

My run is about 25'.

I just googled the manual ((broken link removed to http://www.northlineexpress.com/media/wysiwyg/pdf/5os-ob01613-manual.pdf)), which says:

Flue Outlet: 6” (152 mm) diameter (vertical)

Does that mean that a 5.5" wouldn't be allowed?

For many stoves, a 5.5 inch liner, especially if it's a 25' straight shot, is just fine. Technically, while the flue collar is 6, if you look at where many collars hit the stove you'll see a slight lip of the top plate. If you measure in there, you'll often come up with 5.5, sort of making it an accepted loop hole. Or, you could call the stove company, ask about the situation, and get their blessing / disapproval if you'd like.

I agree with Bryan, check around, and ask for specifics on what each company would like to do. If you aren't sure what they are talking about, then don't hesitate to ask here. Also, if you wanted to post a bunch of pics of what it is you are working with, we may be able to give you additional help/advice.

pen

 

[RoderickSteiner]

This is great advice. Thanks to you both. I'm going to go back to the retailer with this information, then maybe go to a competitor. I have a government coupon which limits the # of installers I can use, unfortunately. I'll come back with pics too.

 

[begreen]

I'm wondering if you could use Duraliner 6". What is the inside dimension of the clay tile in the chimney?

 

[sailor61]

It's likely pricey but what about the system where they put an inflatable bladder in the flue and then pump a lightweight concrete mix in around it? I know "This Old House" has used the method several times over the years - you could likely find more info on their website.

 

[RoderickSteiner]

Interesting re. inflatable bladder, I'll look into it.

re. Duraliner 6" if I understand correctly, you're asking the diameter of the space inside the chimney. I will check tonight and post some pics...

 

[jeff_t]

Clay tile liner? Bust them out.

 

[pen]

My boss just had his fireplace chimney redone w/ "The Bag" shoved down it for under 500. I was surprised as I thought it would have been more.

pen

 

[RoderickSteiner]

Pen, please tell me more. This is the inflatable bladder system sailor61 mentioned? That's cheaper than the liner.

 

[pen]

Pen, please tell me more. This is the inflatable bladder system sailor61 mentioned? That's cheaper than the liner.

Yes, it's the same. It would only work if you have the room in your chimney to do it.

Here's some info on it http://www.supaflu.com/

The boss had this done by a chimney sweep that was local to him. Not sure if it was supaflu or not, but was a similar process.

pen

 

[jeff_t]

Todd had this done to one of his chimneys.

 

[Excavator]

is the flue too small or is it just the damper to small.
Damper just gets cut out to allow room, thats quite common

 

[mfglickman]

Lotta pellet stoves take a 4" liner. Kinda on the darkside, I know...but still, maybe an option.

 

[clemsonfor]

there is a thing that they hook to drills and they bust out the clay flue tiles and then they pull them out from the bottom and this will give you another inch easy to pull that 6" liner through. I think 8" square tiles are the smallest right?

 

[DIY_HOME]

Hello,

I'm so glad I found this forum.

I had completed the purchase of an Osburn 1600 wood stove (with a refundable deposit) to put in my basement in Quebec. I live in the basement and rent the upstairs, which has a wood stove insert using a separate flue. The installers came and looked at the flue. They were planning to insert a 6 inch flue because many tiles are cracked or broken. But they told me that it would be impossible because the opening was too small.

They also informed me that they do not install 5" flues because they have far too many problems with the stoves smoking.

Their only recommendation was that I seek out a mason. I have spoken to a mason. He is going to have a look but because it's an interior flue, it seems he won't be able to do anything to help.

Anyways I'm on a tight budget (just bought my first house), and I couldn't afford to pay thousands for a mason on top of the current costs.

Is it true that a 5" won't work? Could the tiles be removed to make room for the 6"? Am I just plain screwed?

Thanks for reading.

Hello RoderickSteiner,

Do you have any pictures you could post?
I've spoken with the chimney technicians from Rockford Chimney about my particular chimney setup. Very helpful. I'd recommend asking for their opinion, I'm sure they have experience with these types of questions.
www.rockfordchimneysupply.com

Hope this helps you.

 

[fraxinus]

I don't know about availability or code issues in your area, but a cast in place liner would seem to be an excellent option. SupaFlu is one (www.supaflu.com) which I used myself several years ago. I know there are others - try Googling "cast in place chimney liner".

Again, it's been several years, but at the time of my own installation, Supaflu was very competitive in price with a metal liner. Other advantages are: No need for the mess and potential for damage involved in breaking out the old tiles. Insulation is a part of the mixture itself. Greatly improved draft due to the smooth interior surface. Strngthens the entire chimney because it becomes an integral part of the structure.

Hope this will help.

 

[TheBaron]

We just had a Jotul insert put in to our house. We are in Ontario, but similar code to Quebec (same source code). We have 8" flue tile in our house (about 20') and we needed to use a 6" uninsulated SS liner to get it to fit. They see this all the time where we live, so it didn't cause any fuss when they saw our existing chimney. The brand they used was a magnaflex, and it came with the US and Canadian approvals for woodburning. It was a kit that came with the cap and other stuff.

They sell the pipe at Northline Express, but for some reason they don't carry the kit (for the single wall non-insulated flex liner)
(broken link removed to http://www.northlineexpress.com/chimney/chimney-pipe-stove-pipe/chimney-liner/6-inch-chimney-liner/6-inch-magnaflex-chimney-liner.html)

 

[clemsonfor]

I got my liner kit at chimney liner depot for 20ft6" you should be around $300 shipped.

 

[RoderickSteiner]

Here, finally, are a couple pictures. Best I could do with my phone...

The first is the view in from the outside, the second is looking upwards.

 

[RoderickSteiner]

Thanks everyone for your help; sorry it took so long for me to get back to everyone.

is the flue too small or is it just the damper to small.
Damper just gets cut out to allow room, thats quite common

It's the flue that's too small, according to the company.

Lotta pellet stoves take a 4" liner. Kinda on the darkside, I know...but still, maybe an option.

I did not know that...something to consider, but I'd much rather find a way to get the wood stove...

there is a thing that they hook to drills and they bust out the clay flue tiles and then they pull them out from the bottom and this will give you another inch easy to pull that 6" liner through. I think 8" square tiles are the smallest right?

Interesting. Yes, I feel like this is the most legit option that won't cost an arm and a leg. Too bad my mason hasn't shown up yet to give me a quote. I will let you guys know what he quotes me.

Hello RoderickSteiner,

Do you have any pictures you could post?
I've spoken with the chimney technicians from Rockford Chimney about my particular chimney setup. Very helpful. I'd recommend asking for their opinion, I'm sure they have experience with these types of questions.
www.rockfordchimneysupply.com

Hope this helps you.

Thanks! These guys seem to really know what they're doing. I'll give them a ring, depending on what the mason says.

I don't know about availability or code issues in your area, but a cast in place liner would seem to be an excellent option. SupaFlu is one (www.supaflu.com) which I used myself several years ago. I know there are others - try Googling "cast in place chimney liner".

Again, it's been several years, but at the time of my own installation, Supaflu was very competitive in price with a metal liner. Other advantages are: No need for the mess and potential for damage involved in breaking out the old tiles. Insulation is a part of the mixture itself. Greatly improved draft due to the smooth interior surface. Strngthens the entire chimney because it becomes an integral part of the structure.

Hope this will help.

My concern with a supaflu style set-up is that it still won't leave enough room for smoke to escape. Unless I remove the tiles first.

We just had a Jotul insert put in to our house. We are in Ontario, but similar code to Quebec (same source code). We have 8" flue tile in our house (about 20') and we needed to use a 6" uninsulated SS liner to get it to fit. They see this all the time where we live, so it didn't cause any fuss when they saw our existing chimney. The brand they used was a magnaflex, and it came with the US and Canadian approvals for woodburning. It was a kit that came with the cap and other stuff.

They sell the pipe at Northline Express, but for some reason they don't carry the kit (for the single wall non-insulated flex liner)
(broken link removed to http://www.northlineexpress.com/chimney/chimney-pipe-stove-pipe/chimney-liner/6-inch-chimney-liner/6-inch-magnaflex-chimney-liner.html)

When you say 8" flue tile, what does the 8" refer to? Sounds like what you are describing is what my company wanted to do, but there wasn't enough room. Am I understanding you correctly?

 

[ChimneySaverVT]

Hello I am curious how your project ended up?

 

[ChimneySaverVT]

With Cracks in the flue tiles like the pictures shown you could probably go through your insurance to pay for the project as they were most likely caused by a chimney fire. In response to the posts you should not downsize the chimney liner size from the size of the stove outlet. You would need to have a company remove the tile liner in order to get the properly sized liner down the chimney with the correct amount of insulation around it.